Mass debate with Morell

[morell]

There is definitely a difference between "voice" and "communication"

As in:

"******* hell Smithy! Man up"
"cmon Smithy! attack the ball! go in hard!"
"SMITHY SMITHY SMITHY SMITHY"
"HANDS HANDS HANDS HANDS"
"KICK KICK KICK KICK KICK"

AND

"they're running ahead of the ball, Smithy - be the spare man at the back of the pack for the quick hands"

One is what I am referring to, and is what I believe coaches and captains refer to when they say "lift the voice out there". The other is a coaching or leadership instruction, and is in turn related to structure.

[the milky bar kid]

There is definitely a difference between "voice" and "communication"

As in:

"******* hell Smithy! Man up"
"cmon Smithy! attack the ball! go in hard!"
"SMITHY SMITHY SMITHY SMITHY"
"HANDS HANDS HANDS HANDS"
"KICK KICK KICK KICK KICK"

AND

"they're running ahead of the ball, Smithy - be the spare man at the back of the pack for the quick hands"

One is what I am referring to, and is what I believe coaches and captains refer to when they say "lift the voice out there". The other is a coaching or leadership instruction, and is in turn related to structure.

Generally voice is very important. I think the benefits of instructional voice has certainly been raised, but their are other benefits of voice.

I find for many, that voice also increases player intensity & focus. Go to any training or game, when skills are down, the voice is 98% of the time is way down as well.

Voice can also be a confidence thing. I'm not talking sledging here, but when you are down in a game & you still have positive voice bouncing around it can have a significant role in increasing the belief of the players around you that you can change the games direction.

[cracka]

Poor Smithy. Oh well, someone has to be the coaches whipping boy, rather it be Smithy than me.

[morell]

I find for many, that voice also increases player intensity & focus. Go to any training or game, when skills are down, the voice is 98% of the time is way down as well.

Voice can also be a confidence thing. I'm not talking sledging here, but when you are down in a game & you still have positive voice bouncing around it can have a significant role in increasing the belief of the players around you that you can change the games direction.

You see I just don't buy any of this and it is the exact sort of thinking I am basing this Myth on.

How on earth does voice increase focus? If anything I would've thought be yelled at by 4 different people from 4 different angles all saying something different would have the complete opposite impact.

If a player needs to be yelled at on the ground to get his intensity right, then I would question both the player and the coach in regards to their mental aptitude (from a playing football perspective of course) - intensity comes from mental strength - which is for many people, something generated from within.

Skills drop when voice drops? Would love to see something non-anecdotal that proves that. I reckon its more placebo than anything. If this wasn't the case, why do players yell out things on the mark to distract goal kickers? Surely if you were correct, the best way to distract a goal kicker would be to go .. completely silent?

Bouncing around can build belief? ... hmmm Nah. Belief comes from observation ....

[morell]

Sorry Milky that wasn't meant to be overly critical, and you're certainly not alone in your thinking, hence why I think it's a Myth!

... and how humans interact and behave in group think type situations is something which is nebulous at the best of times.

[Mr Beefy]

It's easy to see why your team mates would yell "You're right Morgs! You're right morgs! You're right" when you're standing in the full forwards path. Pity the full forward wasn't Plugga Lockett...

[morell]

Bwhahaha. Also been known to be the victim of the occasional fake mark falcon too.

Assholes.

[Q.]

Some players are individually focused, others feed off the intensity they expel and others feed off the intensity expelled by other players. Constant vocal banter is a good thing even if it does nothing for a portion of the group.

[Yank Man]

Some players are individually focused, others feed off the intensity they expel and others feed off the intensity expelled by other players. Constant vocal banter is a good thing even if it does nothing for a portion of the group.

Thanks for voicing your opinion Q. I'm a voice man, constructive on field voice wins games of footy.
I'm not one for talking for the sake of talking and it's easy to pick the 'smart voice' as opposed to the ones who really need to shut up.
That's not directed at you morell, you actually have natural on field voice as opposed to your written voice.

[Q.]

Constructive talk gets you possessions too. If you're vocal about positioning, other players are aware of your presence and you become an instinctive option to them.

[Pag]

So I have been politely told that insurance is batshit boring, and to get into more entertaining topics. Such as ..

morell's myths!!! *applause*

For those playing at home, this is what we're up to:

morell's Myths!
1. You play the way you train.
2. Pre-seasons are really important in amateur football.
3. Stretching achieves anything, ever.
4. Every club pays players.
5. Getting to a game early allows for a superior preparation.
6. Business slacks make you a more professional and disciplined club.
7. Strapping does anything, ever.
8. Outside players are soft.
9. Going up a division attracts better quality players and people.

I think it's now time for number 10!

10. Voice and communication is REALLY important

Complete myth! It always gets trotted out at training and before games - "lift your voice lads" , "even if you're not getting the ball, still use your voice" , "there's no voice out there, lets lift it up!" etc

I reckon every coach I have ever had has used this mantra, it's as if they think that yelling something across the field magically turns spud footballers into Ablett - like some sort of Harry Potter spell.

Give me 21 talented, motivated, smart, strong, young footballers with each position covered in a decent structure and rip out their voiceboxes. Copy and paste them but downgrade them all slightly so they're a bit shorter, a bit weaker, replace the CHB with a softi-ish flanker and take out the Full Forward and replace with stubby type. If they played each other the voiceless ones would win 99 times out of 100.

Now that's not to say one shouldn't yell out "mine!" or "you're hot", but to make it such a large focus is disproportionate to it's actual impact on gameday. I know personally I often don't hear voice if i'm concentrating on the ball. There are so many voices out there that its almost impossible to delineate what is the correct thing to listen to and what isn't. And that's if the person yelling out incoherent mumbo jumbo gets it right anyway.

Classic example is a game I played recently, we're were getting a bit of a towel up so I moved to a loose man in defense. I am sitting in front of the full forward and the ball comes in - I hear clearly "You're right Morgs! You're right morgs! You're right". So of course I think OK, I will sit here and take an easy mark, because.... I was OK and in the clear, right? The full forward glides over the top and takes a mark as I sat there looking like a moron. I turned and laughed and said "I thought you said I was right?!?!" Full back replies - "yeah I meant that you wouldn't get cleaned up so you could attack it". Right. I would have been better off not hearing anything and just assuming I needed to attack it.

I wonder how many times voice helps, and how many times voice distracts?

I think it's a case, as with many of morell's myths, that we don't see the forest for the trees. We focus on tiny little minutiae that in the grand scheme of things don't matter.

inb4 - this is why Mitchell Park are 1-5 in D7, because you don't use your voice.

Your full backs lack of ability to use his voice constructively has cost you. If he was better at it, and gave you a better call, the mark wouldn't have been taken. To me, this just emphasises the importance of (good) voice.

Good sides that I've been a part of have clear, concise calls that everyone out there in the same jumper understands. As someone not blessed with pace, agility, or much athleticism of any kind, I believe use of (constructive) voice is one my biggest assets as a footballer, and something I think contributes to the team in a big way each week, much like the 17-year-old kids pace or the forward pockets ability to slot a banana.

[LaughingKookaburra]

I actually remember being a part of a pretty good U16's side and the voice one night was rubbish so for the remaining hour of training the coach said not to use our voice and just use your instinct. The effect was brilliant and we trained the best we had all season. The coach had to shut up too during this time unless it was between drills. Actually did morale really well!

[The Bedge]

I'm a big fan of voice and communication, it's not just about calling for the ball it's about directing team mates, raising awareness etc. some people have a better view or understanding of the game than others, you may see an option open up that a team mate cant, this is a perfect time when the use of voice to direct them helps.

Also if a player has their head over the ball and focussed on winning the contested ball, their instinct most often is to go to a familiar voice instead of trying to see through a sea of opposition jumpers for the right option, and it's important for other team mates to help them identify which option is best.

Finally i've always thought - particularly at training - that using your voice actually helps to increase the intensity of the exercise - perhaps i'm imagining it, but when it's dead quite and blokes are just going through the motions it comes across very flat and generally more mistakes are made, especially if it's an exercise that involves a bit of traffic or defensive pressure.

[The Bedge]

Oh also i've always felt that using voice or talking in general at training can help create a level of comfort amongst a group, help make those who are shy and not big talkers feel better and come out of their shell (not all of course).

Get a new bloke come out to training and it's dead quiet i imagine would make the experience feel a little awkward and out of place.

[The Bedge]

How on earth does voice increase focus? If anything I would've thought be yelled at by 4 different people from 4 different angles all saying something different would have the complete opposite impact.

If a player needs to be yelled at on the ground to get his intensity right, then I would question both the player and the coach in regards to their mental aptitude (from a playing football perspective of course) - intensity comes from mental strength - which is for many people, something generated from within..

I dont consider using voice/communication as needing to yell, i think of it more like a coach - provide direction, instruction, guidance - help the person with the ball make the correct decision under pressure, or help a team mate move to the right spot to recieve a kick etc or vice versa alert a team mate to a loose opposition that may pose an immediate threat to getting the ball etc.

Particularly in the lower grades, the level of awareness and footy nous drops away significantly - some blokes can stare right at you and still not see you lol, and plenty of blokes get hypnotised by the ball and play and get sucked into the contest or become oblivious to the opposition players finding space around them.

I think in higher grades voice/communication could be more of a myth, but in the lower grades it's super important.

[twobob]

The beauty of football is that there is a place for every type of player. It doesn't matter if your a soft outside player or a short stubby full back there is a job for you to fulfil on a footy field. But the one constant regardless of what type of player you are is that you have to use your voice constructively. Using your voice if backing up or calling for a handball i believe is that player stating his commitment to the play. It also is that player sub-consciously stating his commitment to the play. So to say that voice is over rated is incorrect. You can be 20 metres from the play and still be involved in the play by using your voice. I'm thinking Morell that the voice in div 7res may be poor and the incorrect message will sometimes be given. But the higher the division you play the better and more important the voice becomes, probably due to the speed of the game in the higher divisions.

[Footy Chick]

Oh also i've always felt that using voice or talking in general at training can help create a level of comfort amongst a group, help make those who are shy and not big talkers feel better and come out of their shell (not all of course).

Get a new bloke come out to training and it's dead quiet i imagine would make the experience feel a little awkward and out of place.

and you love the sound of your own voice

*runs*

PS: love you

[The Bedge]

and you love the sound of your own voice

Indeed i do

[Jetters]

Some players are individually focused, others feed off the intensity they expel and others feed off the intensity expelled by other players. Constant vocal banter is a good thing even if it does nothing for a portion of the group.

Agree Q.

Voice can create an atmosphere, which some groups need, some don't.

[the milky bar kid]

Constructive talk gets you possessions too. If you're vocal about positioning, other players are aware of your presence and you become an instinctive option to them.

I like this, it completely justifies cheap touches I get!