PM says 'sorry' but 'doesn't apologise'

[Psyber]

Capped Housing Rates:

This was talked about on ABC radio the other day (774 here in Melbourne). The figure I recall hearing was 22%. Interest rates were artifcially capped and it was only after the Hawke government deregulated interest rates that it stopped.
FWIW I don't recall interest rates ever reaching 17% under a Keating government. I remember they did under Hawke for (what?) 3 months, but then again housing was more affordable then.

A quick google found this.......

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/conten ... 085320.htm

Hmm... lots of assertions there which may be true or half-true. I vaguely recall that in the mid 1970s my bank did try to lend me money to buy property in North Adelaide half throught the bank and half through their finance company, but offering to talk to another bank pulled them into line. That tends to support what you say about the capping.

The 17% peaks were under Whitlam, then under Hawke/Keating in 1987 - I'm not sure which of them was PM that year - I used 90 day bills then as they were cheaper at 14.6% - but I recall I used them for 5-6 months until I'd developed and sold that property - and made 30% on it due to inflation. I think I would have switched to a normal loan if it had become cheaper to do so.

Inflation was up both times too. The house I built in 1971 for $19000 brought $45000 in late 1975, and the place I bought in 1976 for $60,000 was valued at $57,000 in 1980 and $64,000 in late 1983 but got $138,000 in early 1985. It was 1987 I sold the Porsche I bought [secondhand] in 1984 for 40% more than I had paid for it, while my sister's share portfolio plummetted 40%. I enjoyed that because she had chided me about buying a Porsche instead of making "sensible" investments.

Record Lows:

Once again they were talking about this the other day on 774. It was on Jon Faine's morning show, and the (TV) ad went to air for only three days during the last election. It was pulled off the air after this time by Howard himself. Presumably even he thought this was "gilding the lily".
Jon Faine can be a real pain at times, but the one thing he does do is his research, especially on political matters, and especially at election time. His lack of appearances on Media Watch are testimony to that.
It was actually on his show (not AM or the World Today), so there doesn't appear to be a transcript on the web.

I agree with your comments about Jon Faine. I didn't see those advertisements but I guess it is possible someone less astute in the Liberal Party authorised advertisements that Howard pulled out when he realised they had done so, because it was something that couldn't be promised or defended and something he didn't intend to say.. There are always idiots who go over the top and embarrass the leadership - Kevin Rudd has had a few to silence in the last few weeks.

Personally I can't believe there is still two weeks left of this carry on. I want Susie Creamcheese of The Happy Birthday Party to make a comeback. He/she would get my vote!
(There's one to test the memory of older posters. Think 1972 Federal election for the seat of Sturt!)

My wife knew Paul Paech [alias Susie] at university. I once met Bobby McLeay - one of Sir John's sons who used to call himself "the red sheep of the family". I agree elections are a pain, full of subtle distortions and outright lies paraded as fact, and despite being a member of the Liberal Party I would like to see the end of party based politics - how is another big debate though.....

[Leaping Lindner]

LL, I think it was more likely a State Election in Unley, from memory.

Kudos to you R&B. You're right. My memory let me down on that one. I caught up with a good friend this am for coffee and he is something of an election and electorial stats freak (Anthony Green type), and he was saying it was the 1970 State Election.
That would be the state election where Steele Hall virtually voted himself out of office by fixing the gerrymander that still existed at the time. Now there was a Pollie with integrity.

[Dogwatcher]

What an awesome name for a politician too.

A nice bloke Steele is as well. I met him last year.

[Leaping Lindner]

Personally I can't believe there is still two weeks left of this carry on. I want Susie Creamcheese of The Happy Birthday Party to make a comeback. He/she would get my vote!
(There's one to test the memory of older posters. Think 1972 Federal election for the seat of Sturt!)

My wife knew Paul Paech [alias Susie] at university. I once met Bobby McLeay - one of Sir John's sons who used to call himself "the red sheep of the family". I agree elections are a pain, full of subtle distortions and outright lies paraded as fact, and despite being a member of the Liberal Party I would like to see the end of party based politics - how is another big debate though.....

That is sensational!!!! So his name was Paul Paech.

[redandblack]

LL, I think it was more likely a State Election in Unley, from memory.

Kudos to you R&B. You're right. My memory let me down on that one. I caught up with a good friend this am for coffee and he is something of an election and electorial stats freak (Anthony Green type), and he was saying it was the 1970 State Election.
That would be the state election where Steele Hall virtually voted himself out of office by fixing the gerrymander that still existed at the time. Now there was a Pollie with integrity.

What follows might be a bit hard to believe, LL, but that was the only election where I helped out by handing out how-to-vote cards for a couple of hours as a favour for a mate that day. After a while, one of the other helpers said to me that he'd been there all day and wanted a break to get a drink or something to eat and asked if I'd hand out his cards while he was away, which I did.

So I can say that I handed out how-to-vote cards for Susie Creamcheese

You're also right about that election with Steele Hall - all credit to him.

[Leaping Lindner]

LL, I think it was more likely a State Election in Unley, from memory.

Kudos to you R&B. You're right. My memory let me down on that one. I caught up with a good friend this am for coffee and he is something of an election and electorial stats freak (Anthony Green type), and he was saying it was the 1970 State Election.
That would be the state election where Steele Hall virtually voted himself out of office by fixing the gerrymander that still existed at the time. Now there was a Pollie with integrity.

What follows might be a bit hard to believe, LL, but that was the only election where I helped out by handing out how-to-vote cards for a couple of hours as a favour for a mate that day. After a while, one of the other helpers said to me that he'd been there all day and wanted a break to get a drink or something to eat and asked if I'd hand out his cards while he was away, which I did.

So I can say that I handed out how-to-vote cards for Susie Creamcheese

You're also right about that election with Steele Hall - all credit to him.

Excellent story there R&B but you do realise you are showing your age.

Speaking of Steele Hall. This is an interesting read.


Available in any reputable Adelaide op shop or salvos for $1.50

[Blue Boy]

He has run every election campaign the same - scaring the Australian public with every twist and turn that is made during the campaign !!!

I shake my head every time he comes up with this sort of dribble !!!

[Psyber]

He has run every election campaign the same - scaring the Australian public with every twist and turn that is made during the campaign !!!
I shake my head every time he comes up with this sort of dribble !!!

Yes I agree there is a lot of drivel being distributed, but it is not just JH - Labor is doing the same over issues they think will advantage them, and the Democrats are distributing drivel trying to recover their lost credibility, and so it goes on.

This is not a battle of good and evil, but of not-so-good and not-so-good...

[Psyber]

LL, I think it was more likely a State Election in Unley, from memory.

Kudos to you R&B. You're right. My memory let me down on that one. I caught up with a good friend this am for coffee and he is something of an election and electorial stats freak (Anthony Green type), and he was saying it was the 1970 State Election.
That would be the state election where Steele Hall virtually voted himself out of office by fixing the gerrymander that still existed at the time. Now there was a Pollie with integrity.

"Susie"- Yes it was Unley, I wasn't sure of the year.

Liberal Movement: Robin Millhouse was also with Steele Hall in the Liberal Movement I think, then stayed on in SA Parliament as an Independent until Labor and Liberal combined forces to persuade him to take the job as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court in SA. He was an embarrassing example of integrity to both major parties - giving his pay rises to charity and turning down chauffered cars in favour of riding his push bike in to work, or taking the bus like anyone else on wet days.

I didn't meet Steele Hall except very briefly in passing, but his ex-wife was a friend of my wife's and I met his kids. Oddly I met his new wife, also an MP by then, the same week at another location. Adelaide is small really.

[Sheik Yerbouti]

PS No mention of what great mates you are with Downer? You do surprise me.

You are being a little on the unnecessarily catty side there my dear one, and a little inaccurate.

I have never referred to Alexander as a "great mate" or even a "mate" - I just said that I do know him personally when I defended him from a somewhat abusive slur, because it was relevant at the time to say so. My acquaintanceship with him is not relevant in this discussion - so I didn't mention it.

I have declared my hand as a member of the Liberal Party but stated it does not mean I agree with every policy. Alexander knows where I disagree with him.

I have also met James Merlino - Labor Victoria, Peter Duncan when he was a federal Labor MP from SA, John Bannon when he was SA Premier, and Terry Groom when he was a federal Labor MP from SA. I also knew John Coulter when he led the Democrats, and John Olson poured me the odd beer when he was SA premier, but I have never presumed to call any of them them "great mates" either - just acquaintances.

However, I did once a to get John Olson to intercede as Premier when WorkCover SA were treating a worker very unfairly over his claim and the union and their lawyers had left the worker hung out to dry. I mention this only because it may help you to see that this post is not about total class warfare, but about balanced debate and fair opinion. But I guess if you are determined go on being snide to you may decide to assume I just made it up on the grounds that no Liberal Premier would help out a worker!![/quote]

Good luck getting an answer from Flipsy on that one. Poor little tyke'd be all tuckered out after the global warming march & Rundle St East End crystal & hemp clothing market yesterday. Will be on a champagne & latte drip for a week.

[Psyber]

PS No mention of what great mates you are with Downer? You do surprise me.

You are being a little on the unnecessarily catty side there my dear one, and a little inaccurate.

I have never referred to Alexander as a "great mate" or even a "mate" - I just said that I do know him personally when I defended him from a somewhat abusive slur, because it was relevant at the time to say so. My acquaintanceship with him is not relevant in this discussion - so I didn't mention it.

I have declared my hand as a member of the Liberal Party but stated it does not mean I agree with every policy. Alexander knows where I disagree with him.

I have also met James Merlino - Labor Victoria, Peter Duncan when he was a federal Labor MP from SA, John Bannon when he was SA Premier, and Terry Groom when he was a federal Labor MP from SA. I also knew John Coulter when he led the Democrats, and John Olson poured me the odd beer when he was SA premier, but I have never presumed to call any of them them "great mates" either - just acquaintances.

However, I did once a to get John Olson to intercede as Premier when WorkCover SA were treating a worker very unfairly over his claim and the union and their lawyers had left the worker hung out to dry. I mention this only because it may help you to see that this post is not about total class warfare, but about balanced debate and fair opinion. But I guess if you are determined go on being snide to you may decide to assume I just made it up on the grounds that no Liberal Premier would help out a worker!!

Good luck getting an answer from Flipsy on that one. Poor little tyke'd be all tuckered out after the global warming march & Rundle St East End crystal & hemp clothing market yesterday. Will be on a champagne & latte drip for a week.

I guess it doesn't matter I'd made my point, but the background you gave explains the petulance that annoyed me enough to bother.

Forgive my compulsion to tidy up your posting in quoting it. [My minor compulsive disorder strikes again.]

[JK]

At the end of the day, how the nation and each individual is affected by whichever party wins the election won't be known until that term is served ... These threads could well make for interesting reading at that time though.

[Psyber]

At the end of the day, how the nation and each individual is affected by whichever party wins the election won't be known until that term is served ... These threads could well make for interesting reading at that time though.

Yes they would be interesting to revisit in 3 to 4 years.

[topsywaldron]

Flipsy ...will be on a champagne & latte drip for a week.

I can only hope.

[Leaping Lindner]

LL, I think it was more likely a State Election in Unley, from memory.

Kudos to you R&B. You're right. My memory let me down on that one. I caught up with a good friend this am for coffee and he is something of an election and electorial stats freak (Anthony Green type), and he was saying it was the 1970 State Election.
That would be the state election where Steele Hall virtually voted himself out of office by fixing the gerrymander that still existed at the time. Now there was a Pollie with integrity.

"Susie"- Yes it was Unley, I wasn't sure of the year.

Liberal Movement: Robin Millhouse was also with Steele Hall in the Liberal Movement I think, then stayed on in SA Parliament as an Independent until Labor and Liberal combined forces to persuade him to take the job as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court in SA. He was an embarrassing example of integrity to both major parties - giving his pay rises to charity and turning down chauffered cars in favour of riding his push bike in to work, or taking the bus like anyone else on wet days.

I didn't meet Steele Hall except very briefly in passing, but his ex-wife was a friend of my wife's and I met his kids. Oddly I met his new wife, also an MP by then, the same week at another location. Adelaide is small really.

My dad was involved in the early days of the LM along with Robin Millhouse. His son and I were at school together. When the libs lost the 1975 state election we were both personally blamed for it due to our father's involvement in the LM. "The Sons of Hackney High" didn't like turncoats.
Apparently the LM had the gall to tell people to preference either labor or liberal. Outrageous
Pretty sure Robin went onto help form the Australia Party who then became The Democrats. Top bloke, and as you say "an embarrassing example of integrity to both major parties".

[Alby_Green]

I do know housing rates topped 17% under two past federal "Labor" governments.

They only didn't reach those numbers when Howard was treasurer as they were artificially capped, otherwise they would have topped the 20% mark.

Were they and would they, or is that your own conjecture??

Cash rate hit 22% under Howard's time as Fed Treasurer but this didn't flow through to housing loan rates as there was a cap or "ceiling" on home loans of 13.5% until 1986. Businesses were paying this high rate on their borrowings and personal loans were at this level as well.

In 1986 the Hawke government deregulated the banking system and then you got an alliance between the cash rate and the home loan rate that we have today.

[Psyber]

I do know housing rates topped 17% under two past federal "Labor" governments.

They only didn't reach those numbers when Howard was treasurer as they were artificially capped, otherwise they would have topped the 20% mark.

Were they and would they, or is that your own conjecture??

Cash rate hit 22% under Howard's time as Fed Treasurer but this didn't flow through to housing loan rates as there was a cap or "ceiling" on home loans of 13.5% until 1986. Businesses were paying this high rate on their borrowings and personal loans were at this level as well.

In 1986 the Hawke government deregulated the banking system and then you got an alliance between the cash rate and the home loan rate that we have today.

Except in 1986-87 I was using quarterly Bank Bills as finance rather than normal loans because bank bills were much cheaper which is unusual. I'm not sure why this was so. Any idea??