The World Cup....

First Class Cricket Talk (International and State)

Postby Ecky » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:40 pm

MAY-Z wrote:
Ecky wrote:
MAY-Z wrote:we seem to have two issues arising here so i will try and address them seperately

1) minnows making it big

i think that it is great that the last 2 world cups have thrown these situations up. people say that kenya were lucky to get throught but isnt that what sport is about, taking your chances and making use of any luck that comes in your direction. as for zimbabwe in 1999 they were genuinely good enough to be there and a semi final berth would have been a good reward for a side that put in a lot of hard work at that time (obviously not anymore though).



Nothing against Kenya but what happened in 2003 was a ridiculous situation that demonstrated how flawed the competition rules were. It baffles me how often organisers of major sporting events come up with competition rules which can be exploited or are clearly biased towards certain teams/situations. All they need to do is consult a professional mathematician/statistician and they would immediately be able to see the problems and advise on fairer alternatives.


if the sporting world was fair then we wouldnt use umpires out on the ground we would get all decisions made from replays as im sure statistics would prove that australia would get more umpiring decisions in their favour than any other side at the moment


That is a separate issue, June-Z.
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Postby Aerie » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:50 pm

Ecky wrote:
MAY-Z wrote:we seem to have two issues arising here so i will try and address them seperately

1) minnows making it big

i think that it is great that the last 2 world cups have thrown these situations up. people say that kenya were lucky to get throught but isnt that what sport is about, taking your chances and making use of any luck that comes in your direction. as for zimbabwe in 1999 they were genuinely good enough to be there and a semi final berth would have been a good reward for a side that put in a lot of hard work at that time (obviously not anymore though).



Nothing against Kenya but what happened in 2003 was a ridiculous situation that demonstrated how flawed the competition rules were. It baffles me how often organisers of major sporting events come up with competition rules which can be exploited or are clearly biased towards certain teams/situations. All they need to do is consult a professional mathematician/statistician and they would immediately be able to see the problems and advise on fairer alternatives.


The rules weren't too bad were they? Wasn't it more the political situations with games being forfeited which stuffed things up?
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Postby rod_rooster » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:57 pm

MAY-Z wrote:we seem to have two issues arising here so i will try and address them seperately

1) minnows making it big

i think that it is great that the last 2 world cups have thrown these situations up. people say that kenya were lucky to get throught but isnt that what sport is about, taking your chances and making use of any luck that comes in your direction. as for zimbabwe in 1999 they were genuinely good enough to be there and a semi final berth would have been a good reward for a side that put in a lot of hard work at that time (obviously not anymore though).

2) 2007 and world cup

i would think that the semi finals should be made up of australia, south africa, india and possibly the west indies or sri lanka but the fourth spot is quite open.

the biggest chance i think is south africa as the pitches will be reasonably lifeless and the grounds are small. i think they have the best batting line up to succeed in those conditions with smith, gibbs, kallis, boucher, pollock, kemp and hall all capable of playing big quick innings in those conditions. they may get found out a little with the ball but with kemp back bowling recently it does give them another option.

based on what i have ssen in south africe pakistan wont be any good despite their batting depth as their bowlers are just not up to it and can concede scores very quickly with no ability to bowl yorkers.

sri lanka will also have to rely on their batting as their bowling gives 30 overs of very hittable deliveries- they would have easily won their last series in new zealand if someone other than vaas or murali could bowl effectively. new zealand and the west indies are very similar to this and will need to bat very well due to a lack of depth in the bowling- for that reason they cant win.

england may have turned a corner, but it wouldnt take much for teh old habits to resurface. with the addition of pietersen to the middle order it does give a good balance to the batting with a good mixture of hitters and accumulators. another team where the bowling could be an issue but if plunkett can continue to take early wickets that gives flintoff and panesar a good shot at the middle/lower order.

indias batting on paper looks ghood and they definately have the ability with a good balance to th eline up and they have bowlers who should be ably to back the powerful batting line-up up, although sehwag is out of form it only takes a moment for a player like him to get back to his best.

australia must be feeling real low right now and with some disruption to the early round sides inevitable it is probably lucky that south africa are the only challengers early. for a good side they seem to be the only team that doesnt know their best team which could be the downfall.

my tip is for south africa to beat india in the final.


Very, very good summary MAY-Z =D> =D> =D>
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Postby Ecky » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:13 pm

Aerie wrote:
Ecky wrote:
Nothing against Kenya but what happened in 2003 was a ridiculous situation that demonstrated how flawed the competition rules were. It baffles me how often organisers of major sporting events come up with competition rules which can be exploited or are clearly biased towards certain teams/situations. All they need to do is consult a professional mathematician/statistician and they would immediately be able to see the problems and advise on fairer alternatives.


The rules weren't too bad were they? Wasn't it more the political situations with games being forfeited which stuffed things up?


The major problem with the rules was that points from previous games were carried over into the super 6 stage, when they definitely shouldn't have been. But yes, the political situation was a contributing factor.
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Postby - » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:14 pm

id call him sleep z or mcintire z


as for kenya if you people think they deserve a semi final berth good luck to you. They wouldnt win a sheild game
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Postby Aerie » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:47 pm

Ecky wrote:
Aerie wrote:
Ecky wrote:
Nothing against Kenya but what happened in 2003 was a ridiculous situation that demonstrated how flawed the competition rules were. It baffles me how often organisers of major sporting events come up with competition rules which can be exploited or are clearly biased towards certain teams/situations. All they need to do is consult a professional mathematician/statistician and they would immediately be able to see the problems and advise on fairer alternatives.


The rules weren't too bad were they? Wasn't it more the political situations with games being forfeited which stuffed things up?


The major problem with the rules was that points from previous games were carried over into the super 6 stage, when they definitely shouldn't have been. But yes, the political situation was a contributing factor.


Why was it a problem to take over points from previous games against the two other qualifiers from your group? I thought this would be fair enough as it basically meant a table was formed from the super sixes playing one match against the other 5 teams. It also added heavier weight to the group stage games, as any loss could impact further on in the tournament.

The exact same thing is happening with this World Cup. Two teams from each of the 4 groups go through to Super 8's and you carry the points you earned against the other qualifier in your group through to the super 8's.
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Postby Ecky » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:04 pm

Aerie wrote:
Why was it a problem to take over points from previous games against the two other qualifiers from your group? I thought this would be fair enough as it basically meant a table was formed from the super sixes playing one match against the other 5 teams. It also added heavier weight to the group stage games, as any loss could impact further on in the tournament.

The exact same thing is happening with this World Cup. Two teams from each of the 4 groups go through to Super 8's and you carry the points you earned against the other qualifier in your group through to the super 8's.


Definitely is not a sensible thing to do, as it places too much weight on the games against other teams in your group. I can give a more detailed reasoning later if you like.
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Postby MAY-Z » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:09 pm

Ecky wrote:
Aerie wrote:
Why was it a problem to take over points from previous games against the two other qualifiers from your group? I thought this would be fair enough as it basically meant a table was formed from the super sixes playing one match against the other 5 teams. It also added heavier weight to the group stage games, as any loss could impact further on in the tournament.

The exact same thing is happening with this World Cup. Two teams from each of the 4 groups go through to Super 8's and you carry the points you earned against the other qualifier in your group through to the super 8's.


Definitely is not a sensible thing to do, as it places too much weight on the games against other teams in your group. I can give a more detailed reasoning later if you like.


a more detialed explanation required ecky as i agree with aerie
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Postby am Bays » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:30 pm

Hooray, a Snoutslouts Ecky and May-z debate on SAFooty!!!!!
Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
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Postby blink » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:56 pm

MAY-Z wrote:
2) 2007 and world cup

i would think that the semi finals should be made up of australia, south africa, india and possibly the west indies or sri lanka but the fourth spot is quite open.

the biggest chance i think is south africa as the pitches will be reasonably lifeless and the grounds are small. i think they have the best batting line up to succeed in those conditions with smith, gibbs, kallis, boucher, pollock, kemp and hall all capable of playing big quick innings in those conditions. they may get found out a little with the ball but with kemp back bowling recently it does give them another option.

based on what i have ssen in south africe pakistan wont be any good despite their batting depth as their bowlers are just not up to it and can concede scores very quickly with no ability to bowl yorkers.

sri lanka will also have to rely on their batting as their bowling gives 30 overs of very hittable deliveries- they would have easily won their last series in new zealand if someone other than vaas or murali could bowl effectively. new zealand and the west indies are very similar to this and will need to bat very well due to a lack of depth in the bowling- for that reason they cant win.

england may have turned a corner, but it wouldnt take much for teh old habits to resurface. with the addition of pietersen to the middle order it does give a good balance to the batting with a good mixture of hitters and accumulators. another team where the bowling could be an issue but if plunkett can continue to take early wickets that gives flintoff and panesar a good shot at the middle/lower order.

indias batting on paper looks ghood and they definately have the ability with a good balance to th eline up and they have bowlers who should be ably to back the powerful batting line-up up, although sehwag is out of form it only takes a moment for a player like him to get back to his best.

australia must be feeling real low right now and with some disruption to the early round sides inevitable it is probably lucky that south africa are the only challengers early. for a good side they seem to be the only team that doesnt know their best team which could be the downfall.

my tip is for south africa to beat india in the final.


Great summary here May-Z and I agree with you in most parts, except:

England - I don't think that the bowling is as much of an issue as you may think. Jimmy Anderson will return for the World Cup, and if he and Liam Plunkett pick up where they left off in Australia on the reverse-swing conducive wickets of the Caribbean, then England are well and truly on their way. Throw in Freddie Flintoff (relinquished once again from the captaincy -we all know what he can do when he is), Monty Panesar and Saj Mahmood and you should have (in theory) a fair quality attack over the 50 overs.
The batting line-up is also OK. Strauss had a shocker in Australia, but I think a change of scenery at the World Cup will do him good. His spot may be under pressure at the moment from Ed Joyce, especially as Pietersen will be back. Loye will probably retain his spot purely on the basis that he can smash a quick-fire 30 to 40 and take advantage of the early field restrictions. Bell is good for 50 or 60 and Pietersen and Collingwood will compliment each other well, as we have seen.

I think that the final four will be Australia, South Africa, England and India.
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Postby - » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:56 pm

wizz man ur right,


If one team makes the next stage with equal group wins to another they should have the same power. It shouldnt rely on luck as to who qualified.
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Postby matt » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:19 pm

On Pakistan, I thought this was pretty spot on:

Which is precisely why, of course, nobody will rule Pakistan out. It is at moments such as this, with squads as ravaged by controversies, scandals and injuries, that Pakistan, uniquely, can never be discounted as a threat. The build-up and run-in to 1992 wasn't this bad but it wasn't much better. Forget the plans and long-term vision, say selectors. We're winging it now, hoping and praying. At least we're used to it.

Osman Samiuddin is Pakistan editor of Cricinfo
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Postby mal » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:25 pm

Im waiting for MAY-Z to slip up so I can expose him
but he keeps posting intelligently.
Terrific posts on each respective team.
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Postby BenchedEagle » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:25 pm

Can anyone tell me anything at all about Bermuda? How they qualified and what is the qualification process for these low ranked teams, like Ireland, scotland, bermuda etc?
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Postby - » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:41 pm

may z,

click on my links and itl show u why the format was flawed. Read my detailed explanation and ul understand.


this cup is different. Yes you carry through 1 game into super 8's, only 1. It is set up with 2 good sides per group. It is designd so that all 8 make the super 8 and once they get there they play evry 1 except the team from their group that they have already played.
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Postby heater31 » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:04 pm

lizbeff eaglez wrote:Can anyone tell me anything at all about Bermuda? How they qualified and what is the qualification process for these low ranked teams, like Ireland, scotland, bermuda etc?




They play a qaulifing tournement against the Associate member countries (ie the non test playing nations) generally Kenya and Canada are the strongest nations in this section of world cricket
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Postby mal » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:02 pm

The number 7 spot
we are trying WHITE
we are trying WATSON
IVE GOT A GUY WHO CAN BAT BETTER THAN THESE TWO
and this guy can bowl as well
the forgotten allrounder type
it might be an absurd thought
but whatabout this guy....no one has mentioned him at all
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BOOF
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Postby SOTTERS » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:22 pm

This is a better side than the World Cup Squad

P.Jaques
M.Klinger
D.Hussey
D.Lehmann
A.Voges
C.White (c)
L.Ronchi
N.Huaritz
S.Clarke
J.Gillespie
B.Hillfenhaus
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Postby rod_rooster » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:36 pm

mal wrote:The number 7 spot
we are trying WHITE
we are trying WATSON
IVE GOT A GUY WHO CAN BAT BETTER THAN THESE TWO
and this guy can bowl as well
the forgotten allrounder type
it might be an absurd thought
but whatabout this guy....no one has mentioned him at all
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BOOF


=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
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Postby sydney-dog » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:20 pm

The NSW media are going nuts about the S Clark non selection

my view Great test bowler but too predictable in the one day game

Clark needs to learn how to change up his pace, he definitely does not have a slower ball and this hurt his chances

I was not upset with his non selection
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