Collingwood vs Port, and the Black and White

[Adelaide Hawk]

Sorry LL, I must have had a long day .. I didn't read your post correctly. I thought you said Collingwood stole it from the SA team (meaning Port Adelaide). I didn't read "state team". I'm going to bed!!

[Sojourner]

Does anyone remember what happened when "Super League" was brought up?

The AFL "Own" the trademarks of all the current AFL Clubs.

If Carlton wanted to drop out of the AFL and go into the Super League, they would have to find a new name and new colours.

It was that scenario that ended the dreams of those pushing the Super League concept.

So the AFL, not Collingwood FC actually own the trademark Collingwood and the Colours of Black and White as they do every other club, so if they want to, they clearly can make Collingwood wear an Away strip in an alternate colour, yet they wont be any time soon as they also clearly see a precedent which sees the oldest teams of the competition get priority, or more likely the clubs that make the most money, get the most say in whatever they want to do!

[the big bang]

i'm also sitting on the fence on this, agree 100% with all of dogwatchers points back at the beginning of this thread.


having said that, a few years ago when this subject was bought up on The Footy Show, it started to get a bit heated between Eddie and whoever it was that was arguing the point (probably Sam, but can't remember exactly), i loved Eddie's response to a comment made towards him..........

ARGUER: "if every other club has to have an alternate strip, why should collingwood be excused from the rule?"

EDDIE (with his face as red as a tomato from getting fired up like he used to!): "well if 15 other clubs have an alternate strip, then we dont need one then do we!?!?"

classic

[auto]

Apparently there's a clause in the AFL's legal framework which states "Collingwood is the worlds most self important team. It should not have to wear an alternative strip. Nor does any other team have the right to use the same colours, play in a blockbuster match (unless of course your playing collingwood), or stare directly into the eyes of the clubs el presidente. Futhermore, collingwood supporters have the right to own gold jackets and call an end to the game when appropriate by donning said jackets."

[Magpiespower]

The argument has never been about colours.

It's a dead issue for even the most die-hard Port supporter. Has been since 1995.

The 'prison-bars' guernsey is the moot point.

Supporters love it. But...

Club admin has never really gone to war on this because it has never wanted the 'prison-bars' beyond the odd heritage round.

All part of a (failed?) strategy to distance itself from 'traditional' Port Adelaide and win new supporters.

Have a teal yoke sitting above the 'prison-bars' and the guernsey isn't much different from the current 'SBS' design.

Reakon the home guernsey is off-limits. But the clash guernsey is up for grabs.

And with teal/white/silver being the dominant colours in any clash guernsey it's the club's best avenue to bring back the 'prison-bars'.

If it ever really wants to.

A big 'if'...

[Q.]

Apparently there's a clause in the AFL's legal framework which states "Collingwood is the worlds most self important team. It should not have to wear an alternative strip. Nor does any other team have the right to use the same colours, play in a blockbuster match (unless of course your playing collingwood), or stare directly into the eyes of the clubs el presidente. Futhermore, collingwood supporters have the right to own gold jackets and call an end to the game when appropriate by donning said jackets."

And don't you forget it!

[beenreal]

The argument has never been about colours.

It's a dead issue for even the most die-hard Port supporter. Has been since 1995.

The 'prison-bars' guernsey is the moot point.

Supporters love it. But...

Club admin has never really gone to war on this because it has never wanted the 'prison-bars' beyond the odd heritage round.

All part of a (failed?) strategy to distance itself from 'traditional' Port Adelaide and win new supporters.

Have a teal yoke sitting above the 'prison-bars' and the guernsey isn't much different from the current 'SBS' design.

Reakon the home guernsey is off-limits. But the clash guernsey is up for grabs.

And with teal/white/silver being the dominant colours in any clash guernsey it's the club's best avenue to bring back the 'prison-bars'.

If it ever really wants to.

A big 'if'...

Can guarantee you that stance is merely because it was a battle (but not a war) they could not win.

Anyway, I went to a match between Port and Colingwood at Footy Park in the mid '90's. Both sides wore their home guernsey and no one had any real difficulty telling the two apart.

The whole scenario is laughable. Alan McAlister voted against Port's entry in 1990 because of the Black and White (but not emblem) colour clash. Then has no problem allowing the AFC in wearing the same colours as Fitzroy. Now the NFL (Nazi Football League) again has no problem allowing Brisbane to again wear the same colours as the AFC. But still only 1 club can wear Black and White?!

[Q.]

No one has answered my question, even if Port are given the choice to wear black and white, would they still be called the Power? Or are we suggesting here that there be two teams in the AFL called the Magpies who both wear black and white?

[mick]

Collingwood pinched the idea of the South Australian State Team to began with.

Are you sure about that LL? I thought Port Adelaide didn't adopt the back & white until 1902, and Collingwood were around before that.

I'm pretty sure he is correct as the State Side wore black and white before Collingwood started playing and they also thought that the bird on our flag was a magpie (same family).

They asked our permission apparently. It was back in 1892 or 1891. This is a photo of the 1894 state team. The same jumper we wore pre-Collingwood.

Nice photo LL. Obviously Collingwood didn't run with the compulsory moustaches

[Dirko]

No one has answered my question, even if Port are given the choice to wear black and white, would they still be called the Power? Or are we suggesting here that there be two teams in the AFL called the Magpies who both wear black and white?

If they were given the choice and decide to wear Black & White no need to change the moniker. Power has no colour connotations. Let them wear the Black & White but call them the Power...

One Magpies is enough. Don't need two of the bastards.

[beenreal]

No one has answered my question, even if Port are given the choice to wear black and white, would they still be called the Power? Or are we suggesting here that there be two teams in the AFL called the Magpies who both wear black and white?

If they were given the choice and decide to wear Black & White no need to change the moniker. Power has no colour connotations. Let them wear the Black & White but call them the Power...

One Magpies is enough. Don't need two of the bastards.

Believing that to be enough, Port had already conceded the Magpie emblem in 1990. They still intended to wear the Prison Bars. Hence the McAlister debacle.

[Q.]

No one has answered my question, even if Port are given the choice to wear black and white, would they still be called the Power? Or are we suggesting here that there be two teams in the AFL called the Magpies who both wear black and white?

If they were given the choice and decide to wear Black & White no need to change the moniker. Power has no colour connotations. Let them wear the Black & White but call them the Power...

One Magpies is enough. Don't need two of the bastards.

And I reckon that kind of scenario still retains current dilemmas and creates new ones.

Black and white prison bars, but still not the Port Adelaide Magpies. Is it enough to attract SANFL Magpie supporters, or will they still see it as a 'bastard child' and do you potentially turn away those fans of the Power who have affiliations with other SANFL clubs???

[Dogwatcher]

Nice photo LL. Obviously Collingwood didn't run with the compulsory moustaches [/quote]

How would Dale Thomas fit one of those hats on his head?

[Hondo]

The new Gold Coast team will be the 3rd team to have red, blue and yellow as it's colour scheme. There are different shades of the colours in each scheme and Brisbane only wear it away, but still.

In the NFL across it's 32 teams there's quite a few that have similar colour schemes. Red(ish) & blue make up most of the look of the Bills, Giants, Patriots, Texans, Bears and Broncos. They have very strict rules about alternate strips to compensate plus the teams get the merchandising from 3 or more different uniforms. The Titans are light blue & dark blue so they have 3 strips - mostly light blue, mostly dark blue and then mostly white.

I'm not saying we have to do everything that the Americans do. I just point it out because something that seems very common and accepted in overseas sports is often resisted here because we can get so attached to the one, single guernsey design. Maybe that's to our game's credit, but we shouldn't have 1 or 2 teams just refusing to do what everybody else is.

The irony is that if those 2 teams needed the extra revenue streams (which they don't and good on them for that) then I think we'd see a range of different guernsey designs on the shelves at the AFL Stores!

[beenreal]

No one has answered my question, even if Port are given the choice to wear black and white, would they still be called the Power? Or are we suggesting here that there be two teams in the AFL called the Magpies who both wear black and white?

If they were given the choice and decide to wear Black & White no need to change the moniker. Power has no colour connotations. Let them wear the Black & White but call them the Power...

One Magpies is enough. Don't need two of the bastards.

And I reckon that kind of scenario still retains current dilemmas and creates new ones.

Black and white prison bars, but still not the Port Adelaide Magpies. Is it enough to attract SANFL Magpie supporters, or will they still see it as a 'bastard child' and do you potentially turn away those fans of the Power who have affiliations with other SANFL clubs???

I reckon the PAFC lost as many supporters by not wearing the Prison Bars into the AFL as those who are turned of by them wearing it, embracing of The Creed and 1870.

I have mates who are lifelong Port supporters but prefer to stay with another AFL side simply because of the new guernsey.

[Magpiespower]

I have mates who are lifelong Port supporters but prefer to stay with another AFL side simply because of the new guernsey.

So much of the argument about the 'real Port Adelaide' is cosmetic.

Lucky they weren't around at the turn of the 20th century!

Guernseys, colours and emblems changed with the wind...

[Sojourner]

The new Gold Coast team will be the 3rd team to have red, blue and yellow as it's colour scheme. There are different shades of the colours in each scheme and Brisbane only wear it away, but still.

Brisbane Lions have done that to themselves by choice, their colours are supposed to be Maroon not Red which is supposed to also be Fitzroys original colour. The reason Brisbane are supposed to be predominatly Maroon is that Maroon is the State Colours of Queensland, yet the Brisbane FC obvioulsy feel that by wearing the old Fitzroy jumper in away games they will gather support from old school Fitzroy supporters that previously didnt feel connected to the club.

The Gold Coast will be predominatly Red and Yellow to represent the colours of Surf Lifesaving so prevalent on the coast at Surfers. The Gold Coast Blue is a Royal Blue as opposed to the Navy Blue of the Crows and its unlikely to be a guernsey clash as such!

[therisingblues]

In relation to this. I wonder if anyone can remember the Collingwood president at the time of Port's entry and when this debate was at its strongest, suggested that if the Power finished above Collingwood on the premiership table for the first three years of its existaence, then they would concede to the Power the right to wear the black and white.
Obviously the above claim was made with all the general arrogance made habitual at Collingwood and also with the surety that it would never happen.
The old memory is not as sharp as it once was but I believe Port did finish above Collingwood for its first three years, but by that stage the Power didn't push the point as it wasn't assured a victory in that regard and also risked a potentially damaging debate about its identity after three years of marketing the teal as part of its design.

The original offer was a good one if I have the details correct, but it's a pity that it was never followed through on.
I still maintain that success should be rewarded, and with the price paid by the SANFL at the hands of Victorian expansionism, I think it is right that they provide a path for at the very least, the strongest to preserve their identity in the strongest league in the land. It is called the AFL after all, but obviously that is a misnomer as they only allow a bastardised version of Australia's most successful club to enter, for fear of upsetting one of the nations most mediocre.

[Q.]

So are you suggesting that two 'Magpies' teams co-exist in the one competition, or that it be Collingwood who changes?

[beenreal]

So are you suggesting that two 'Magpies' teams co-exist in the one competition, or that it be Collingwood who changes?

Alan McAlister is the Tossbag being referred to.

And as for clubs co existing, have a look at the revamped TFL:

Burnie Dockers
Clarence Kangaroos
Devonport Magpies
Glenorchy Magpies
Hobart Tigers
Lauderdale Bombers
Launceston Blues
North Hobart Demons
North Launceston Bombers
South Launceston Bulldogs