John Harms - Crows' fans blinded by light of Stobie poles

[Gingernuts]

Hey folks,

John Harms writes a very interesting article on the negative culture of Crows supporters:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/crows-fans-blinded-by-light/2009/06/16/1244918037071.html

I always enjoy Harmsy's stuff, and even though I'm a Crows supporter I have to agree with his observations here (once you get past the usual SA stereotypical throwaway lines re mullets etc).

This paragraph in particular is a very interesting observation:

"But the thing you have to be most conscious of, Patrick, is becoming like a Crows' supporter: grim. Because for all the joy that South Australia, the Adelaide Oval, Les Favell, KG and Cornesy, Jarman and Ricciuto, Hayden Haitana, West End beer, Barossa shiraz, Darren Lehmann, Coonawarra everything, and The Advertiser can bring to you, when it comes to footy, Crows people still live with an underlying, spirit-sapping grimness. Crows' fans don't crave the joy of playing, they don't crave the joy of winning, they crave the relief of not losing. Being at Footy Park is like being at the old Highbury or the dentist."

For the record, John Harms has a lot of family in SA (his mum and dad live in the hills and also a least 1 brother in the SE) and visits regularly, so he's not making these observations from afar.

What are other peoples thoughts?

[Dogwatcher]

He lived here for quite a time too. Was a player with Adelaide Lutheran IIRC.

[rogernumber10]

I thought he wrote it as well as anything I've read on matches at Footy Park in a long time. When John studied in SA, he used to play with Adelaide Lutheran, bumping around in their A5 and 6 Reserves.

[Dogwatcher]

Rog, as a former Adelaidean who supports Geelong, what do you think of this article?

[rogernumber10]

As a starting point, some of his random clips were hilarious:

... The Advertiser posters (dealing with the big issues: "Cornesy's piles cured") .... eating Balfour's Pies (a different sort of coagulant) and finding that you can't have morning tea without buying a 600ml carton of Farmers Union iced coffee.

..... a state that has a tradition of world-class mullets, sublime mid-size half-forwards and bizarre crimes.

... You'll start defending Lleyton Hewitt and discussing the big issues in South Australia such as the design of submarines and whether KG deserves a state funeral when he goes, and which church should get it, or whether there should be a service in every Adelaide church simulcast on 5AA.

His key point though was that he says Adelaide fans, as a group, seem to carry an enormous amount of stress through a game and don't seem to enjoy the ups and downs as fans at other games. From my experience of every venue, which I've seen every year for the last decade, and covering every club with many matches not involving Geelong, I agree with him entirely.

[Dogwatcher]

That's what I like to hear.
My father-in-law is a Crows supporter.
His weekend is good if Centrals wins. It's good if the Crows win.
But if Collingwood or either Port wins, his whole weekend is ruined. Literally ruined.
I don't have the energy for that.
I love both my clubs but they're not going to rule how my weekend is viewed.

From what I've seen many Crows supporters spend their weekend worrying about losing and Port winning.
It has something to do with their superiority complex - that is, SA is Crows town, Port are double crossing interlopers. The Crows can do no wrong. They built AAMI Stadium and they live there. They've got more money and one more premiership. They were here first. Their parochialism is astounding.

[rogernumber10]

Since I stepped out of cricket and into footy, which has had me at about conservatively 500 AFL games in the last decade, with another 500 at least watched on tv, to me supporters at pretty much every club only worry about their team, and how they are going, with a passing acknowledgement of good players at other clubs and those clubs, usually only in the week they are playing them.
Adelaide, for some reason, is entirely different, (not the club internally, which only concentrates on the game), and the fans seem to spend an enormous amount of time on other clubs and what they are doing. I left Adelaide the town before the club came into existence and have had only a very little time in Adelaide while they've been in the comp in 93-94, before they won a flag, so I just don't understand it still.

[Dogwatcher]

After my last post, I'm about to browse the boards and look for a thread that is about stereotyping and the generalising of Pies supporters.

[Gingernuts]

That's what I like to hear.
My father-in-law is a Crows supporter.
His weekend is good if Centrals wins. It's good if the Crows win.
But if Collingwood or either Port wins, his whole weekend is ruined. Literally ruined.
I don't have the energy for that.
I love both my clubs but they're not going to rule how my weekend is viewed.

From what I've seen many Crows supporters spend their weekend worrying about losing and Port winning.
It has something to do with their superiority complex - that is, SA is Crows town, Port are double crossing interlopers. The Crows can do no wrong. They built AAMI Stadium and they live there. They've got more money and one more premiership. They were here first. Their parochialism is astounding.

They also endlessly compare themselves to not only Port, but every club in the comp. I think this indicates more of an inferiority complex rather than a superiority complex.

A few years ago I went to the Crows v Collingwood prelim at the G. We lost, fairly convincingly in the end, but I still rate that game as the best game I have ever seen live, and definitely one of my most treasured 'life experiences'. The atmosphere of the Collingwood army at a prelim, 90 000+ fans packed into the G, bloody awesome. Yea the result didn't go our way, but I loved every second of it. Very few Crows supporters would allow themselves to enjoy a moment like that, the result would have ruined it for them. Sad really.

[Brock Landers]

I'm always astounded by some of the negative comments by Crows "supporters" whenever I go to a game at AAMI.

However in my personal experience, I've found that the Power supporters I know worry more about whether the Crows win or lose than the Crows supporters worrying about the Power's result. So I would say Port supporters have more of an inferiority complex.

[Felch]

I'm always astounded by some of the negative comments by Crows "supporters" whenever I go to a game at AAMI.

However in my personal experience, I've found that the Power supporters I know worry more about whether the Crows win or lose than the Crows supporters worrying about the Power's result. So I would say Port supporters have more of an inferiority complex.

I would say its a Crows/Power supporters thing in general. One of the problems with a 2-team town.

I have always had the view that many Crows supporters are more worried on how they get to-and-from the footy, rather than the actual game. Hence, the large amount of Crows supporters that leave the footy early. I have seen people leave at the 20 minute mark of a last quarter, with less than a goal between the 2 sides !!!

Also, i don't think Crows or Power supporters know how to handle opposition supporters sitting near them at the footy, and cheering for their side.

[Dogwatcher]

They hate it, absolutely hate it.

I remember when I was younger I went with Mrs DW to the footy to watch Brisbane v Adelaide in a pre-season cup game.
I cheered for Brisbane. The lady behind me kept telling me to shut up.
By the end of the second half she yelled at me "why do you come here every week and cheer against the Crows? Why do you even bother coming???"
It was the first time I'd sat in those seats. lol. Was the first AFL game I'd been to in five years. Silly woman.

[Brock Landers]

I'm always astounded by some of the negative comments by Crows "supporters" whenever I go to a game at AAMI.

However in my personal experience, I've found that the Power supporters I know worry more about whether the Crows win or lose than the Crows supporters worrying about the Power's result. So I would say Port supporters have more of an inferiority complex.

I would say its a Crows/Power supporters thing in general. One of the problems with a 2-team town.

I have always had the view that many Crows supporters are more worried on how they get to-and-from the footy, rather than the actual game. Hence, the large amount of Crows supporters that leave the footy early. I have seen people leave at the 20 minute mark of a last quarter, with less than a goal between the 2 sides !!!

Also, i don't think Crows or Power supporters know how to handle opposition supporters sitting near them at the footy, and cheering for their side.

That's one of the worst things about AFL games in Adelaide IMO. There is usually 90% of the crowd barracking for one team.

Bring on Carlton v Collingwood or Essendon v Collingwood at the 'G with allegiences roughly split 50/50 any day, even though I have no interest in any of those teams.

[Brock Landers]

They hate it, absolutely hate it.

I remember when I was younger I went with Mrs DW to the footy to watch Brisbane v Adelaide in a pre-season cup game.
I cheered for Brisbane. The lady behind me kept telling me to shut up.
By the end of the second half she yelled at me "why do you come here every week and cheer against the Crows? Why do you even bother coming???"
It was the first time I'd sat in those seats. lol. Was the first AFL game I'd been to in five years. Silly woman.

You got owned DW

[Felch]

I'm always astounded by some of the negative comments by Crows "supporters" whenever I go to a game at AAMI.

However in my personal experience, I've found that the Power supporters I know worry more about whether the Crows win or lose than the Crows supporters worrying about the Power's result. So I would say Port supporters have more of an inferiority complex.

I would say its a Crows/Power supporters thing in general. One of the problems with a 2-team town.

I have always had the view that many Crows supporters are more worried on how they get to-and-from the footy, rather than the actual game. Hence, the large amount of Crows supporters that leave the footy early. I have seen people leave at the 20 minute mark of a last quarter, with less than a goal between the 2 sides !!!

Also, i don't think Crows or Power supporters know how to handle opposition supporters sitting near them at the footy, and cheering for their side.

That's one of the worst things about AFL games in Adelaide IMO. There is usually 90% of the crowd barracking for one team.

Bring on Carlton v Collingwood or Essendon v Collingwood at the 'G with allegiences roughly split 50/50 any day, even though I have no interest in any of those teams.

I love going to see the Crows play in Melbourne. I went a fortnight ago, vs Essendon, and it was fantastic. There was probably a 70/30 split of supporters, and it was great. Took my 2 eldest daughters along (brain-washed them already, both in Crows guernseys), and we sat right in amongst some Essendon faithful. They cheered, we cheered, and all good. Adelaide winning obviously made the day more enjoyable, but would have had a blast anyway.

[Dogwatcher]

Not likely. I just laughed and cheered for Brisbane all the harder.
Then sat there the next week and cheered for the opposition again.

[CK]

I was a season ticketholder for 8 years, same seats for all that time. After all that, I decided not to renew for:

- The astonishing number of fans who do not understand the "holding the ball" rule. Opposition players who were touched by a Crows player were immediately deemed "BALL!!!", yet a Crows player could be spun 720 degrees, rightly pinned and the umpire's parentage would be questioned long and loud.

- The same number of fans who called repeatedly for the "dropping the ball" decision. I have looked through the rule book numerous times and am yet to find a rule entitled "dropping the ball". Incorrect disposal - yes, but "dropping the ball" does not exist, yet I found myself in a nonsensical and lengthy argument one day with a Crows fan who insisted there was a rule called "dropping the ball".

- Vast number of fans who completely refused to acknowledge good play by the opposition, and who looked aghast at anyone who applauded it. Mark Merenda's (when playing for West Coast) goal at the Northern end one day was one of the best I have seen at any level; Shane Crawford, in his Brownlow year, carved up Adelaide with 41 disposals and got BOG in a losing team; great high marks from opposition, yet all largely greeted with silence. Applause was usually met with suspicious sideways glances.

- Being nearly knocked over in the rush for fans to escape around the 15 minute mark of the final term when the margin blew out to 3 goals - either way.

- Fans who attended for over 5 years, yet still called out for "Number 9, get on your man", "That was a rubbish kick, 16" etc.

[redden whites]

I was a season ticketholder for 8 years, same seats for all that time. After all that, I decided not to renew for:

- The astonishing number of fans who do not understand the "holding the ball" rule. Opposition players who were touched by a Crows player were immediately deemed "BALL!!!", yet a Crows player could be spun 720 degrees, rightly pinned and the umpire's parentage would be questioned long and loud.

- The same number of fans who called repeatedly for the "dropping the ball" decision. I have looked through the rule book numerous times and am yet to find a rule entitled "dropping the ball". Incorrect disposal - yes, but "dropping the ball" does not exist, yet I found myself in a nonsensical and lengthy argument one day with a Crows fan who insisted there was a rule called "dropping the ball".


- Vast number of fans who completely refused to acknowledge good play by the opposition, and who looked aghast at anyone who applauded it. Mark Merenda's (when playing for West Coast) goal at the Northern end one day was one of the best I have seen at any level; Shane Crawford, in his Brownlow year, carved up Adelaide with 41 disposals and got BOG in a losing team; great high marks from opposition, yet all largely greeted with silence. Applause was usually met with suspicious sideways glances.

- Being nearly knocked over in the rush for fans to escape around the 15 minute mark of the final term when the margin blew out to 3 goals - either way.

- Fans who attended for over 5 years, yet still called out for "Number 9, get on your man", "That was a rubbish kick, 16" etc.

How so true...Great post
You did forget the questioning of the goal umpires decision from 4 storeys up,90 deg angle to the goaline and 125 m away from the goal line.An AAMI stadium members classic. Our family had 4 cat1 memberships between us and continued them on when the Crows joined delighted that we would not have to go to Melbourne 4-5 times a year for the footy despite not having a Crows fan in a family of 7 boys..We just gave up as they were not being used at all a few years ago .Even when the Crows were being done there was no enjoyment to be had there at all

[JK]

- The astonishing number of fans who do not understand the "holding the ball" rule. Opposition players who were touched by a Crows player were immediately deemed "BALL!!!", yet a Crows player could be spun 720 degrees, rightly pinned and the umpire's parentage would be questioned long and loud.

I reckon this one happens with more than just Crows fans ... It usually happens with any club on those occasions they boast a clear majority of crowd support - Essendon fans at the Dome spring readily to mind.

On the article itself, I can't disagree either ... Those Crow fans I know that are serious about supporting them do seem to carry a high amount of negativity.

[Hondo]

How so true...Great post
You did forget the questioning of the goal umpires decision from 4 storeys up,90 deg angle to the goaline and 125 m away from the goal line.An AAMI stadium members classic. Our family had 4 cat1 memberships between us and continued them on when the Crows joined delighted that we would not have to go to Melbourne 4-5 times a year for the footy despite not having a Crows fan in a family of 7 boys..We just gave up as they were not being used at all a few years ago .Even when the Crows were being done there was no enjoyment to be had there at all

It's just a function of having 90% of the stadium supporting one team. Deep down or privately, all supporters think all of those same things that CK listed in the heat of the game. We are all one-eyed to some extent when our team's involved. It's just that in a 50-50 crowd they either shut up or can't be heard in the general cheering that goes on.

A 90-10 crowd isn't for everyone so I don't judge people who choose not to be a part of it. I wish it would go the other way.

A lot of those same Crows supporters who cop the criticism for biased supporting at AAMI, love the normal footy banter of games in Melbourne. It's like when Bock was jeered by the Port fans earlier in the year after his indiscretion. It would have been a noisy minority that started it, then the crowd dynamic created a whole heap of sheep to follow making it seem like all the Port fans were carrying on like that.

RW - you saying that the North supporters that stand in front of grandstand don't become experts on umpiring decisions that happen on the other side of the field? Or any team's supporters at any ground?