Percentage - Outdated and Wrong?

[Wedgie]

....AND ANOTHER THING!!!
If two teams have the same points difference, then what is the next tie-breaker?
Anyone who follows american sport(especially the NFL) knows that these comps
have anywhere between 3 and a dozen tie-breaking procedures.
If anyone has the patience to go over every VFL/AFL,SANFL and WAFL ladder
since % was first used (early to mid 20s) you will find that there will be not one
instance of any two or more teams having the same %.

Yes but % can be tied and has been before.
And the same rules that apply for that scenario could apply if pts difference was equal.
I follow Rugby League and haven't seen points diffrenence tied yet in the 2 comps I follow, as footy is a much higher scoring sport there would be even less chance of that being an issue. Surely a system that promotes more attacking football but might have a tie once every 40 years (as could the current % anyway) wouldn't just be ignored on that basis.

[Ecky]

I think the general football hasn't a clue about % and the only people who know and care about it
are diehard and intelligent fans like ourselves who use forums like this.

I don't think the average football supporter is that stupid - it only requires primary school maths to calculate a percentage!

Percentage = (score for) / (score for + score against)

Easy!

[Mr66]

True Ecky - stupid is probably too harsh a word, lazy may be more appropriate.

[-]

With the way North are going most games now, ie kicking 20+ goals but also having the opposition kick plenty of goals I've been thinking that should we perhaps adopt the Rugby League and soccer ways of rating teams when on equal points, ie merely on points difference instead of %.
The current percentage forumula actually rewards teams for being defensive.
ie a team that kicks 5 goals to win a game by 6 points will be higher placed than a team that kicks 20 goals but wins the game by 3 goals using the current % forumula.
Surely we should be looking at rewarding higher scoring teams to try and get more people through the gate as opposed to penalising them?

Great topic. The fact that it is going to be relevant in deciding this years minor premiership has brought it to a head. The way its looking and the way the system works means if North and Port are level Port will get it on percentage.

I think points difference is fairer. The system is flawed when one team can win 20-10 every week and another can win 200-100 every week and both have the same percentage.

[Dissident]

With the way North are going most games now, ie kicking 20+ goals but also having the opposition kick plenty of goals I've been thinking that should we perhaps adopt the Rugby League and soccer ways of rating teams when on equal points, ie merely on points difference instead of %.
The current percentage forumula actually rewards teams for being defensive.
ie a team that kicks 5 goals to win a game by 6 points will be higher placed than a team that kicks 20 goals but wins the game by 3 goals using the current % forumula.
Surely we should be looking at rewarding higher scoring teams to try and get more people through the gate as opposed to penalising them?

I think the percentage system is fine. A good game of footy isn't just high scoring. The point of playing the game is the win, and then secondly, win by as much as you can.

But this isn't just attacking well, it's also defending well. To be honest, I don't think that the game would change with changing the system to a points difference, AND, I don't think it will paint any more of an accurate picture of the years games.

[Dissident]

The system is flawed when one team can win 20-10 every week and another can win 200-100 every week and both have the same percentage.

Well, not really - since if it was 20-10 v 200-100 and a DIFFERENT percentage, then MATHS is flawed

[-]

The system is flawed when one team can win 20-10 every week and another can win 200-100 every week and both have the same percentage.

Well, not really - since if it was 20-10 v 200-100 and a DIFFERENT percentage, then MATHS is flawed

Ok then the percentage system for separting teams on equal premiership points is not the fairest way of doing it.

[cd]

I believe % is the best system as it takes into account how your forwards and defence have performed over the year in all conditions and makes comparison with others possible as it is everyone's performance out of 100.

[Mr66]

Well put cd. Can this be a final post to an over analysed subject?
No one has really put forward a fair, viable alternative.

[Wedgie]

Ironically under the current system you're disadvantaged playing on the better grounds or in better conditions!
Not so much of an issue in the SANFL as it is in the AFL but you're definately worse off the better the ground is and worse off the better the weather is!
Weird, ideally it shouldn't make any different but if anything it should be the other way around.
I still think the only difference you'd get if you changed it from the current % to the difference in points is you'd be encouraging more attacking footy and get more people to games (wrongly or rightly) because of it. Bonus points would emphasise it even further but that's a bit too radical for my liking.
An interesting topic and I'm enjoying other's opinions with at least one more attractive option being offered.
Keep 'em coming, definately an under analysed subject as I've never heard dicsussion on the matter before.

[Mr66]

Wedgie, most teams which have a vast points differential than other clubs also have
a better percentage, but there are exceptions to the rule.
Check out the WAFL website which has final H&A ladders going back to 1900.
They have a column on the far right hand side which indicates the margin between
points scored and conceded.
I'm going through them to determine which clubs have a better points diff but superior % and vice versa.
Painstaking, but this topic is giving me a bee in my bonnet!!

[Wedgie]

Wedgie, most teams which have a vast points differential than other clubs also have
a better percentage, but there are exceptions to the rule.
Check out the WAFL website which has final H&A ladders going back to 1900.
They have a column on the far right hand side which indicates the margin between
points scored and conceded.
I'm going through them to determine which clubs have a better points diff but superior % and vice versa.
Painstaking, but this topic is giving me a bee in my bonnet!!

Don't get me wrong, I doubt it would make a difference in most cases but still a worthy point of discussion.

[spell_check]

C'mon Wedgie, spill the beans!

lol, I definately can't go into details but just further confirmed what a lot of us allegedly thought about a sporting organisation already, that they're more interested in the AFL than their own competition particularly in regard to one of the head honchos.

Just watching some WAFL action between Claremont and Peel on ABC2, and looking at the "crowd" it makes me wonder if the SANFL would care if it got that far. (There are more people at a Noarlunga game).

[Dissident]

Really though, if you win, you go up the ladder. If you lose, you don't!

The reward for winning by kicking a high score is both a, the two points and b, the confidence you get and impression of you the rest of the competition get.

[Wedgie]

Really though, if you win, you go up the ladder. If you lose, you don't!

Bzzt wrong, in 2002 North were 6th going into Round 8 and Round 9.
In Round 8 North lost by 98pts.
In Round 9 North lost by 85pts.

After Round 9 they were into the 5!

Mind you its not every week you have the 5th team losing by 195pts like South did to Central!

[Dissident]

Really though, if you win, you go up the ladder. If you lose, you don't!

Bzzt wrong, in 2002 North were 6th going into Round 8 and Round 9.
In Round 8 North lost by 98pts.
In Round 9 North lost by 85pts.

After Round 9 they were into the 5!

Mind you its not every week you have the 5th team losing by 195pts like South did to Central!

1. That's a rarity
2. Would have probably been the same if the points difference was used

[Wedgie]

2. Would have probably been the same if the points difference was used

It would have been at that stage BUT under the % rule it wouldn't if it had happened 10 rounds later!

[Macca19]

I think its fine just the way it is. As someone else said, the game is also about defence, not just attack. A top defence is just as important as a high scoring attack. For example, if Adelaide finished equal with say 4 teams last year they would have finished 4th, but their defence let in th eleast amount of points per game than any other side in history. That is just as important as a side going all out attack.

So I say leave it as is for now.

[high flying flag]

A top defence is just as important as a high scoring attack. .... That is just as important as a side going all out attack.

So I say leave it as is for now.

As a defender from way back I couldnt agree more.

[northernblue]

Not a bad idea about the points difference, but soccer has a goal difference, so do we didvide the points diference by 6 to get a goal difference?

Also, why not more points for away wins. How about 3 points for an away win, 2 points for a win at home, 2 points to the away team when its a draw and only 1 for the home team in the same game. This rewards teams who go out to win especially away from home.