STRETCHER RULE

[Wedgie]

Christ, I'm confused!

[Mickyj]

Try this CD

22 INFECTIOUS DISEASES

22.3 ACTIVE BLEEDING - ROLE OF UMPIRE

22.3.3 - Replacement Player

"A player directed to leave the playing surface may be replaced by another player listed on the Team Sheet.

A replacement player may enter the Playing Surface while the player that he of she is replacing is leaving the playing surface.

If a replacement player has not entered the Playing Surface by the time the directed Player has not entered the Playing Surface by the time the directed Player has left the Playing Surface the field Umpire must recommence play immediately."


So playing Eagles advocate for a second (take notes CD..)

By definition of this Blood Rule (Law 22) has preecendence over the Interchange Rule (Law 7)
ie Law 7 says playing cannot come onto field UNTIL player coming off is through interchange gates. Law 22 says as above can enter before player leaves. (indeed they must or else umpire will continue play)

So if Law 22 has preecedence over Law 7 re the timing of interchange does it also have preceedence over the rest of Law 7 re the stretcher.


Ie you kept to Law 22 but broke Law 7 ... then again anytime Law 22 is invoked Law 7 is always broken.

Maybe PhilH we should ask CD if the ealges have any queens councilers as members

[spell_check]

Hey, since the Field Umpire told McKenzie to come on, we can say this:

22.6 (a) A Player's refusal to promptly obey a direction of a field Umpire given under Law 22.3 or 22.4 is a Reportable Offence.

[Mickyj]

Hey, since the Field Umpire told McKenzie to come on, we can say this:

22.6 (a) A Player's refusal to promptly obey a direction of a field Umpire given under Law 22.3 or 22.4 is a Reportable Offence.

Sounds good to me SPell check plus a 25 or 50 metre penalty

[ca]

What did concern me was the Norwood bloke pushing McKenzie over when he was clearly under the care of trainers. Reportable in my book.

I saw that and had a giggle but agree it was a bit below the belt.

Now that umpire stood there and did nothing except have a word with Lindsey for coming in and pushing the norwood guy back.In fact he didnt move the player who took the kick off the line when he could see there was an injury problem and mackenzie wasnt moving.!!

Looks like I am umpire bashing lol

I would have agreed with you if McKenzie had not come straight back on, obviously your doctor thought he was fine. That being the case Dejong should have done worse if McKenzie was acting. I think the club doctor needs to be questioned.

[ca]

Personal Viewpoint

Given that the umpires had sent 2 Eagles players off at the same time re the bloodrule and wanting to keep the game going -thus needing to get 2 off the interchange and back on the field with one on the bench receiving treatment and trying to get 2 interchanges recorded with the steward and players being called on to the field it would have been very chaotic!

Seems that the rule may need to be clarified but also what happens when you have players forced from the field by the umpires following the bloodrule? Surely we wouldn't expect a team to play one or two short - how long can the game be stopped for with bloodrules? If the situation re the 20 minutes is in place do the umps call a halt to the game for 20 minutes if you dont have anyone else who can go on ?

Phil can you help with any further info re delays caused by bloodrules?

Col D

Can I first say I don't think points should be reversed but from my point of view perhaps the stretcher was used when it shouldn't have been and the eagles need to take responsibility for that, I don't want it to become a tactic to win games so I think they should have to play one short. The fact the goal was scored to put the eagles in front when McKenzie was back on the ground should make for some interesting debate at the SANFL.

[Punk Rooster]

Other clubs in the past have finished with 17 on the field, wouldn't be the first or last time.

The Club Doctor has a lot to answer for in allowing a concussed player back onto the ground.

The Eagles Match Day Officials have a lot to answer for on several counts.

When McKenzie was on the ground a second time was he pushed or did he collapse?

What business does the Umpire have in having any say about who's coming on to the feld & who's leaving, in the context described?

It will be interesting to see whether McKenzie plays this week, or he's listed as being out with concussion.

[spell_check]

No he didn't fall over because he was pushed. I saw him fall over, but didn't see him get pushed (Which would have been after that).

[Wedgie]

I saw him fall over on TV, he was staggering to his feet with the aid of a trainer and the Norwood player gave him a shove.
I'm definately not anti-Norwood, I was actually barracking for Norwood in the game, I laughed at the time but if it was a North player he'd shoved and I'd been there I would have jumped the fence and knuckled the prick.
He was definately groggy and may have fallen over by himself anyway but the Norwood player definately pushed him.

[Mickyj]

Other clubs in the past have finished with 17 on the field, wouldn't be the first or last time.

The Club Doctor has a lot to answer for in allowing a concussed player back onto the ground.

The Eagles Match Day Officials have a lot to answer for on several counts.

When McKenzie was on the ground a second time was he pushed or did he collapse?

What business does the Umpire have in having any say about who's coming on to the feld & who's leaving, in the context described?

It will be interesting to see whether McKenzie plays this week, or he's listed as being out with concussion.

Following PR's theory would the umpire have awarded a free against Mackenzie if he didnt go back on the ground ?

[ca]

What I am saying is he was either injured or he wasn't. If he was concussed then Dejong should be reported and penalised but one could claim the Eagles put the win ahead of the personal safety of a player to win the game which should never been done any level. How could you possbly penalise Dejong when your own club sent him out to what could have been much worse.

or

he was not concussed therefor Dejong had every right to push him and be a bit aggetated at the time he was taking in holding up the game at a critical point. Perhaps McKenzie should be reported for time wasting based on this theory.

You can't have it both ways, which one is the correct one no one will ever know but the moment Mckenzie went back out a few minutes later Dejong no longer had a case to answer in my opinion.

[Wedgie]

To even suggest that the umpire forced the player to come onto the ground is insultive to the umpire fraternity, the stewards and the Eagles medicos.
It would never have happened unless all 3 groups were completely incompetent and would all deserve the sack immediately if it had which I doubt very much.
In regard to what the Norwood player did, he wouldn't have known if the player was injured or not, too all and sundry he certainly appeared to be, the Norwood player pushed the Eagles player just after the initial incident happened when the Eagles players was clearly injured and in distress, he attempted to get up with the help with the trainers and the Norwood player pushed him over. As I said, I found it humerous as I was barracking for Norwood but in hindsight a pretty ordinary thing to do and something I've never seen a player stoop too in the thousands of games of various sports Ive ever watched.

[Mickyj]

To even suggest that the umpire forced the player to come onto the ground is insultive to the umpire fraternity, the stewards and the Eagles medicos.
It would never have happened unless all 3 groups were completely incompetent and would all deserve the sack immediately if it had which I doubt very much.

To quote CA from the above post we will never know

But as CD said 2 blood rules and a stretcher case all at the same time(within 2minutes) wouldve made it very hard on all concerned non playing officals ie interchange steward maybe they need more stewards .As CA said we may never know .
And I posted what I saw at the time !!

[Punk Rooster]

I would think that the Umpire has no right to demand a player comes back on the ground. Especially a concussed one. Imagine, he comes back on, dazed & slightly confused, rushes into a contest & suffers a second serious blow- what would the ramifications be? Obviously it would depend on what happened to the player. Only recently, there was much debate about Justin Langer, & all medical advice was that he shouldn't play, because he couldn't risk getting hit again- I imagine McKenzie would be in a similar position. Also, how can a concussed person make a rational decision? That's why the Doctor has the final say. And the responsibility to the patient.

At very least, this situation needs to be investigated, & not swept under the carpet.

Wedgie, if that happened to a North player, we wouldn't need to jump the fence, as North players would've done something about it- unlike the weak Eagles, who don't know how to "fly the flag"...

[Wedgie]

But as CD said 2 blood rules and a stretcher case all at the same time(within 2minutes) wouldve made it very hard on all concerned non playing officals ie interchange steward maybe they need more stewards .As CA said we may never know .
And I posted what I saw at the time !!

I completely disagree, if the player was concussed as he appeared to be, it would be totally incompetent of all 3 parties involved to let him back on the field and most of all the doctor/s involved. Especially in today's enivorment as far as law suits, etc goes.

I still think this dicsussion is irrelvent as I would never think that this hypothetical discussion we're having wouldn't have happened as I have more faith in the Eagles officials, medicos and the umpires and stewards.

[Mickyj]

I would think that the Umpire has no right to demand a player comes back on the ground. Especially a concussed one. Imagine, he comes back on, dazed & slightly confused, rushes into a contest & suffers a second serious blow- what would the ramifications be? Obviously it would depend on what happened to the player. Only recently, there was much debate about Justin Langer, & all medical advice was that he shouldn't play, because he couldn't risk getting hit again- I imagine McKenzie would be in a similar position. Also, how can a concussed person make a rational decision? That's why the Doctor has the final say. And the responsibility to the patient.

At very least, this situation needs to be investigated, & not swept under the carpet.

Wedgie, if that happened to a North player, we wouldn't need to jump the fence, as North players would've done something about it- unlike the weak Eagles, who don't know how to "fly the flag"...

Umm PR Lindsey went in and made himself known to the norwood player.

So why wouldnt the field umpire move the player taking the kick a metre over so no further harm would come to mackenzie ,i have seen this done before !!

[Wedgie]

Umm PR Lindsey went in and made himself known to the norwood player.

So why wouldnt the field umpire move the player taking the kick a metre over so no further harm would come to mackenzie ,i have seen this done before !!

lmao, you're kidding on both counts aren't you?
Either that or the ABC did some pretty clever editting which I doubt since it was live for the last quarter.

[Mickyj]

But as CD said 2 blood rules and a stretcher case all at the same time(within 2minutes) wouldve made it very hard on all concerned non playing officals ie interchange steward maybe they need more stewards .As CA said we may never know .
And I posted what I saw at the time !!

I completely disagree, if the player was concussed as he appeared to be, it would be totally incompetent of all 3 parties involved to let him back on the field and most of all the doctor/s involved. Especially in today's enivorment as far as law suits, etc goes.

I still think this dicsussion is irrelvent as I would never think that this hypothetical discussion we're having wouldn't have happened as I have more faith in the Eagles officials, medicos and the umpires and stewards.

You are more than likely correct ,I just dont wish to lose the 2 points from the game!!
Hell I didnt mention the point that was a goal that Oakley missed touching and the goal umpire said it was touched !! oops I just did

[Mickyj]

Umm PR Lindsey went in and made himself known to the norwood player.

So why wouldnt the field umpire move the player taking the kick a metre over so no further harm would come to mackenzie ,i have seen this done before !!

lmao, you're kidding on both counts aren't you?
Either that or the ABC did some pretty clever editting which I doubt since it was live for the last quarter.

Lindsey did run in Wedgie, the umpire said something to lindsey .
And the umpire didnt move the eagles player taking the kick mackenzie was laying right in front of the kick taker !! that was of course before the trainer called for the stretcher .

[Punk Rooster]

Wedgie, if that happened to a North player, we wouldn't need to jump the fence, as North players would've done something about it- unlike the weak Eagles, who don't know how to "fly the flag"...

Umm PR Lindsey went in and made himself known to the norwood player.

What, he slipped him his phone number? I certainly didn't see any serious knuckle...