The South Australian Political Landscape

[Jimmy_041]

It may just get them out of the $1Bn hydrogen white elephant

Kouta can go and re-buy the $550m "state owned diesel power plants"

[dedja]

The hydrogen plant is dead in the water; they will have no choice but to divert funding from that to the steelworks.

The death of that project is the only good thing to come out of this mess.

[heater31]

The hydrogen plant is dead in the water; they will have no choice but to divert funding from that to the steelworks.

The death of that project is the only good thing to come out of this mess.

Rumours on the West Coast is, the Cape Hardy development will be moved closer to Whyalla...

[dedja]

I haven’t bothered to do any research, but has any of Gupta’s companies actually been profitable, or has he just borrowed to the hilt and played Ponzis?

[tigerpie]

The State Government should step in to stem the flow on effect from GFG wreaking havoc to Whyalla. They should pay the mounting GFG debt to only small creditors immediately, and then pursue GFG for the funds. This is where the most pain is being felt.

Unfortunately, this is most likely Gupta’s plan as his companies seemingly fail to pay anyone, so he’s hoping for a govt bailout.

Its unlikely that it’s ultimately worth trying to salvage the steelworks, but GFG will unlikely be held accountable and can easily fold and leave the debt for others to pay.

I hope that the State a govt has a ceiling on what its exposure is, and while extremely sympathetic to Whyalla, we can’t keep pouring good money after bad propping up a basket case business, despite the massive negative flow on effect for the region.

A truly sad state of affairs.

The steelworks is actually a very profitable business when being run properly so any govt investment would be paid back quite easily.

Your post sounds very similar to the liberal ideology when Holden closed.
Zero forethought on what effect it would have on the communities as far as welfare payments, mental health and the skills and knowledge lost to industry.
It's the old line, well if Whyalla goes belly up it won't affect me so I'm not prepared to put my tax dollars in.
But believe me if we cannot make our own world class steel it will directly and indirectly affect all of us.

Some greedy dinosaurs need to far cough out of the conversation or understand we cannot rely on digging up our mineral wealth and selling it overseas only to have to buy back the finished item at a premium price.

Australia needs to get its head out of its ass and start investing in manufacturing and research and development.

I'd be happy to pay a tax to keep the steelworks alive just as I would've to keep Holden afloat.

[dedja]

Thanks for the patronising lecture.

Cheers.

[tigerpie]

I haven’t bothered to do any research, but has any of Gupta’s companies actually been profitable, or has he just borrowed to the hilt and played Ponzis?

On this whole topic this comment stands out like dogs nuts.

Once this bloke gets the ass the steelworks will be bought by someone quite possibly the sth Koreans.
The hydrogen plant will then feed the steelworks along with the electric arc furnace to make us a world leader in the green steel market.
High quality magnetite reserves means we value add instead of just exporting it to China.

Covid taught some people jack shit didn't it!

We need to manufacture more.

[dedja]

Keep up the personal attacks, it’s a real winner

I haven’t investigated Gupta’s businesses outside of those he owns in Australia. If you have then all power to you and you’re my hero.

To claim that the steelworks are profitable is a long stretch, the facts say otherwise. No coincidence that it’s the only one left here.

The State Govt has stated that approx $1B is required to modernise the steelworks; that’s a massive investment to make and there would be doubts as to how it would ever be able to make a return on that investment.

Did I suggest that we leave Whyalla for dead? No, of course not, but there has to be a limit on how far government should provide assistance. How much funding should government be allocating to the steelworks? $100M, $500M, $1B, $5B? There has to be a ceiling.

With regards to car manufacturing (which has absolutely nothing to do with the current Whyalla Steelworks situation), billions were spent by successive governments over many decades, and whilst I disagreed with what the Coalition Govt did in ceasing assistance when it did, it was an inevitable solution.

My Dad worked at the GMH Elizabeth factory for 35 years … I even worked there for a few months, so it did hit home when that factory finally closed.

Have a great night.

Don’t ever buy a VL Commodore, although I doubt any are still running … I helped make them.

[Jimmy_041]

mmmmmmmmm those poor Holden workers
It may not be the same in Whyalla but I dont feel sorry for Holden workers

I was indirectly involved in their offboarding and heard some amazing stories
So many of them walked out with, literally, millions in their super fund let alone
I was gobsmacked at how much many of them were worth without adding in redundancy payouts
Then add in the husband & wife employees = double the worth

GMH vehicles were sub-standard and uncompetitive and the workers were earning way over what they should have
The AMWU did a great job over the years until the end

[tigerpie]

It's not just the workers, yep the union looked after them. But I challenge most people to work on a production line. It's dangerous and hard work physically and mentally. So they got paid accordingly. But It's the smaller businesses and suppliers that got wiped out as well.
If the cars were substandard why did Holden top the new car sales list for years on end.

Sure they weren't Ferrari Mercedes or BMW quality but for the price they competed pretty well.
Just didn't move quickly enough in the small car market.
The market shifted and GM didn't move quickly enough.

[dedja]

Getting completely off track but here goes …

I worked at GMH Elizabeth for 3 months when I was at Uni.

From knowing nothing when I started, I, and the other Uni students, ended up being the most productive workers in the factory areas we worked in. We could churn out more parts at higher quality than the regulars, and as a result, were allocated the hardest tasks.

Was it because we were brilliant? No, it was simply that a lot of the perms who had been there for years didn’t give a rats and were lazy.

I saw people who were supposed to sweep the floor hide behind machines for their whole shift in order to not achieve a thing. I worked with people who deliberately broke parts in order to ‘create’ more work to get more overtime.

It was boring and repetitive work, the factory was massively inefficient, and was only operating because GM provided massive financial assistance, together with government subsidies, to keep it afloat.

I can tell you so many stories about the poor quality of the cars that were made there. Metal bumper bar supports that were rusted because they were left out in the weather? No probs, bolt them in, no-one will notice. That plastic instrument panel insert that had burn holes through it? No probs, assemble it in the dash, no-one will see it.

Camiras had grey bumper bars with a grey plastic number plate insert that was attached to it … except there were 2 shades of grey that couldn’t be distinguished under factory lighting. No probs, assemble them at Elizabeth, pack them then transport to Melbourne before they were inspected. There were so many that had to be transported back to Elizabeth because the colours didn’t match it wasn’t funny.

This is the car manufacturing world I experienced. Maybe I was unlucky and copped the worst of it.

Holdens sold in great numbers for a while because there were massive tariffs and little competition. Once the tariffs started to be reduced and more overseas manufacturers started to import into Australia, they had no chance of survival.

Nevertheless, it was sad to see them go, and the others quickly followed because there was not enough critical mass left to sustain the component suppliers and other associated industries.

[mighty_tiger_79]

Gupta going to ask Yasir for a loan?

[dedja]

The Shahins aren’t stupid.

[mighty_tiger_79]

The Shahins aren’t stupid.

I meant the guy from Saudi who heads up Public Investment Fund

[dedja]

The Shahins aren’t stupid.

I meant the guy from Saudi who heads up Public Investment Fund

Saudis aren’t stupid either

[stan]

Getting completely off track but here goes …

I worked at GMH Elizabeth for 3 months when I was at Uni.

From knowing nothing when I started, I, and the other Uni students, ended up being the most productive workers in the factory areas we worked in. We could churn out more parts at higher quality than the regulars, and as a result, were allocated the hardest tasks.

Was it because we were brilliant? No, it was simply that a lot of the perms who had been there for years didn’t give a rats and were lazy.

I saw people who were supposed to sweep the floor hide behind machines for their whole shift in order to not achieve a thing. I worked with people who deliberately broke parts in order to ‘create’ more work to get more overtime.

It was boring and repetitive work, the factory was massively inefficient, and was only operating because GM provided massive financial assistance, together with government subsidies, to keep it afloat.

I can tell you so many stories about the poor quality of the cars that were made there. Metal bumper bar supports that were rusted because they were left out in the weather? No probs, bolt them in, no-one will notice. That plastic instrument panel insert that had burn holes through it? No probs, assemble it in the dash, no-one will see it.

Camiras had grey bumper bars with a grey plastic number plate insert that was attached to it … except there were 2 shades of grey that couldn’t be distinguished under factory lighting. No probs, assemble them at Elizabeth, pack them then transport to Melbourne before they were inspected. There were so many that had to be transported back to Elizabeth because the colours didn’t match it wasn’t funny.

This is the car manufacturing world I experienced. Maybe I was unlucky and copped the worst of it.

Holdens sold in great numbers for a while because there were massive tariffs and little competition. Once the tariffs started to be reduced and more overseas manufacturers started to import into Australia, they had no chance of survival.

Nevertheless, it was sad to see them go, and the others quickly followed because there was not enough critical mass left to sustain the component suppliers and other associated industries.

I have a few stories around the unions and entitlements that when read together with your experiences make alot sense now.

[Psyber]

mmmmmmmmm those poor Holden workers
It may not be the same in Whyalla but I dont feel sorry for Holden workers

I was indirectly involved in their offboarding and heard some amazing stories
So many of them walked out with, literally, millions in their super fund let alone
I was gobsmacked at how much many of them were worth without adding in redundancy payouts
Then add in the husband & wife employees = double the worth

GMH vehicles were sub-standard and uncompetitive and the workers were earning way over what they should have
The AMWU did a great job over the years until the end

My 1955 FJ Holden was fairly realiable - I bought it off my older sister in 1962. The HR was gutless because of its 2-speed auto transmission but it worked but was boring so I got rid of it after two years. The 1968 Monaro GTS 327 was fairly good but did have occasional electrical issues.

The later Alfa GTS was fun to drive but a bit problem prone, but the main issue was the tendency to rust which was only covered under warranty for a few years. My worst car ever was a Maserati 222E - always having problems. My later Audi S2 was good, and my current Renault Megane RS 265 is the best car ever - even better than the few Porsches I had in the 1980s

[wenchbarwer]

mmmmmmmmm those poor Holden workers
It may not be the same in Whyalla but I dont feel sorry for Holden workers

I was indirectly involved in their offboarding and heard some amazing stories
So many of them walked out with, literally, millions in their super fund let alone
I was gobsmacked at how much many of them were worth without adding in redundancy payouts
Then add in the husband & wife employees = double the worth

GMH vehicles were sub-standard and uncompetitive and the workers were earning way over what they should have
The AMWU did a great job over the years until the end

The build quality compared to what they were making at Mitsubishi was light years apart. They had a Commodore in the QA section at Mitsi's, was covered in defect stickers, compared to the Magna that had a couple.

It's not just the workers, yep the union looked after them. But I challenge most people to work on a production line. It's dangerous and hard work physically and mentally. So they got paid accordingly. But It's the smaller businesses and suppliers that got wiped out as well.
If the cars were substandard why did Holden top the new car sales list for years on end.

Sure they weren't Ferrari Mercedes or BMW quality but for the price they competed pretty well.
Just didn't move quickly enough in the small car market.
The market shifted and GM didn't move quickly enough.

Might have been dangerous back in the day, but health and safety standards caught up really quickly.
Lifters for everything from a car battery upwards were used to take the strain off the assembly line workers. Heavy hand tools were suspended from spring loaded pulleys to take the weight.
Mental fatigue was a bit different, that's why they'd get rotated around the various stations to keep them becoming zombies

[Jimmy_041]

Always astounded me that you were slugged $30k - 40k for a commodore and given 1 year warranty
That's real pride in your work and piece of mind right there

If you bought one of the lower Ford or Holden models, you would have blanks in the console to remind you you are a cheap bastard

When there was discussion about Holden possibly closing, I remember driving up the expressway to work and counting the no. of Holdens and Fords going my way. It was less than 10 in hundreds of cars. The vast majority were asian cars - mainly Korean. (Nearly all in the right hand lane as well )

[Booney]

I was at one of the major public hospitals when the then government sold off much of the ancillary work to private group Tempo and Spotless.

We went from 24 public servants to 16 under Tempo running one department. The first thing the Union did was want to fight for more money.

Go ahead, I said, then we'll be doing this with 14 people. Holdens died around the same time.

Union. Power.