by Booney » Tue Dec 05, 2023 2:07 pm
by Lightning McQueen » Tue Dec 05, 2023 2:38 pm
whufc wrote:Booney wrote:That's why there's no recipe for success, nobody really knows but I stand by my view that come the last two weeks of the year if you need someone to motivate you to play your role then you're in the wrong game.
Coaches spend the summer drilling down game plans, if those plans work well enough, often enough, you make finals. After that you need to look in the mirror, not for someone to hold your hand.MW wrote:Interesting take.
I would think you need a game plan to withstand finals as we all know finals is a much different game than home/away.
If your game plan doesn't stand up in the minor round you won't even be there.
I 100% agree there is no locked in recipe for success. I'm a Hinkley fan btw.
I don't think its so much about being motivated, I'm sure they are all motivated. It would be more so about having each player in a good mental head space (for them as an individual) and creating an environment that allows for individuals to thrive when the immense pressure hits. At all levels of sport there is blokes who stand up in the big games and blokes that go missing. How do you get the best out of each person under pressure is the trick to coaching in finals imo.
Even as country bumkins playing spud sport you feel the rise in pressure, intensity, importance at our level of sport so could barely imagine what that feels like at the professional level.
I dont watch Port close enough but i will also admit that there is certain styles of football that tend to stand up better under finals pressure. I could accept that a coach may have a style that works well in the minor round but when it comes to finals, the pressure is on, the game is pretty much umpired different etc that a style might not stand up. I think the general consensus and it stood up well was that Collingwood had a style of football that not only will win minor games but was also going to stand up to finals football well.
I guess its what makes the game so fascinating. Thats all before we start to talk about the physically peaking element etc etc.
by Lightning McQueen » Tue Dec 05, 2023 2:46 pm
by mots02 » Tue Dec 05, 2023 2:56 pm
by Lightning McQueen » Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:00 pm
mots02 wrote:In Feb 2023 it was best list ever wasn't it?
Cattle is there.... but the farmer is shite.
by Booney » Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:08 pm
mots02 wrote:In Feb 2023 it was best list ever wasn't it?
Cattle is there.... but the farmer is shite.
by Lightning McQueen » Tue Dec 05, 2023 4:36 pm
Booney wrote:mots02 wrote:In Feb 2023 it was best list ever wasn't it?
Cattle is there.... but the farmer is shite.
The way people take comments makes me laugh, really does.
Might well have been the best list he's had, was it the best list in the competition? No, not by a long way but hey, use what you need to have a crack.
by Vamos » Tue Dec 05, 2023 6:32 pm
Booney wrote:mots02 wrote:In Feb 2023 it was best list ever wasn't it?
Cattle is there.... but the farmer is shite.
The way people take comments makes me laugh, really does.
Might well have been the best list he's had, was it the best list in the competition? No, not by a long way but hey, use what you need to have a crack.
by whufc » Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:03 am
Lightning McQueen wrote:Port have an inability to win the big games that matter, you can caress the fact and push the blame to wherever you feel like.
Kenny panics under pressure, he orders a negative game plan too early sometimes IMO as there is no plan B.
As a supporter we have to put up with the dumb shit that falls out of his pie hole, I can only imagine what it does for the players’ mindset.
Pound for pound our squad is as good as any, it has been for several years, we continue to fall over at the last hurdle, I think there’s a common denominator.
by Lightning McQueen » Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:33 am
whufc wrote:Lightning McQueen wrote:Port have an inability to win the big games that matter, you can caress the fact and push the blame to wherever you feel like.
Kenny panics under pressure, he orders a negative game plan too early sometimes IMO as there is no plan B.
As a supporter we have to put up with the dumb shit that falls out of his pie hole, I can only imagine what it does for the players’ mindset.
Pound for pound our squad is as good as any, it has been for several years, we continue to fall over at the last hurdle, I think there’s a common denominator.
Is it?????
-imo lacking a serious big, bodied midfielder that can tear a game apart either in the midfield or going forward like a De Goey or Petracca. JHF might end up being that guy. Rozee/Butters are guns but are very light. The best sides have a few tough inside footballers suited to finals football.
-Lacking in tall forwards that have a presence especially when Dixon is/was playing on one leg.
-thin in the rucks as well
-Midfield depth just doesn't compare to the best side. I mean Collingwood had Mitchell starting on the bench in the grand final
by Booney » Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:32 am
by bertiebeatle1 » Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:27 am
whufc wrote:Lightning McQueen wrote:Port have an inability to win the big games that matter, you can caress the fact and push the blame to wherever you feel like.
Kenny panics under pressure, he orders a negative game plan too early sometimes IMO as there is no plan B.
As a supporter we have to put up with the dumb shit that falls out of his pie hole, I can only imagine what it does for the players’ mindset.
Pound for pound our squad is as good as any, it has been for several years, we continue to fall over at the last hurdle, I think there’s a common denominator.
Is it?????
-imo lacking a serious big, bodied midfielder that can tear a game apart either in the midfield or going forward like a De Goey or Petracca. JHF might end up being that guy. Rozee/Butters are guns but are very light. The best sides have a few tough inside footballers suited to finals football.
-Lacking in tall forwards that have a presence especially when Dixon is/was playing on one leg.
-thin in the rucks as well
-Midfield depth just doesn't compare to the best side. I mean Collingwood had Mitchell starting on the bench in the grand final
by whufc » Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:49 am
by bertiebeatle1 » Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:06 am
whufc wrote:Lightning said there as 'good as any'.
I don't watch Port close enough from a tactical/structures/set up point of view but from watching games at a pub with beer in hand whilst chatting away i am comfortable to say they are NOT as good as any. I believe that the GF match up of Collingwood and Brisbane was the best two teams in the comp, not by heaps but by enough that most pundits had them playing in the GF and thats how it turned out.
I would also have a fully fit Melbourne a tad ahead of Port as well. Thats not saying Port couldn't beat them on any given day but no one was shocked that Port couldn't turn another top 4 finish into a GF appearance. Port are a very good side just not the best as the results showed.
BTW i think its fair to say i've been fairly spot on about Carey, his test career has been 'modest' at absolute best.
by whufc » Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:34 am
bertiebeatle1 wrote:whufc wrote:Lightning said there as 'good as any'.
I don't watch Port close enough from a tactical/structures/set up point of view but from watching games at a pub with beer in hand whilst chatting away i am comfortable to say they are NOT as good as any. I believe that the GF match up of Collingwood and Brisbane was the best two teams in the comp, not by heaps but by enough that most pundits had them playing in the GF and thats how it turned out.
I would also have a fully fit Melbourne a tad ahead of Port as well. Thats not saying Port couldn't beat them on any given day but no one was shocked that Port couldn't turn another top 4 finish into a GF appearance. Port are a very good side just not the best as the results showed.
BTW i think its fair to say i've been fairly spot on about Carey, his test career has been 'modest' at absolute best.
Playing unfit players in the finals contributed massively to falling over come finals along with a couple other coaching deficiencies. Winning 13 in a row didn't help in the long run either. Not sure how you could have Melbourne in front when you go through things in detail but anyway..
Back to your line comments
-Lacking in tall forwards that have a presence especially when Dixon is/was playing on one leg.
How many of these can you have in your squad. Go through each team if you are going to make this comment and check it out, more so the top teams. Dixon on one leg and wasn't rested as much as he should have with Georgiades out for the season. Don't know of any team that has 3 tall forwards with a presence that Dixon has.
-thin in the rucks as well
No arguments here - But look at the premiership side & their rucks, they aren't in the top 10-12 rucks in the comp. Good coaching can structure around this.
-Midfield depth just doesn't compare to the best side. I mean Collingwood had Mitchell starting on the bench in the grand final
Mitchell isn't who he used to be - I didn't think he was in their best side going into the finals. Rozee, Butters, Wines (When played in there like he should be - coaching issue) & JHF are the 4 best mids for the club. One of them is either starting fwd or on the bench? Taking any of those 4 over Mitchell?
You made the comment re not having a Petracca or De Goey type. Not sure how many of these guys are in the league? Bont, Cripps are others i can think of. They aren't common guys to have and are rare to find. Brisbane don't have one of those types.
You are a Hinkley fan but don't watch Port close enough from a tactical/structures/set up point of view?? Spare me the dribble
by Lightning McQueen » Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:00 pm
whufc wrote:bertiebeatle1 wrote:whufc wrote:Lightning said there as 'good as any'.
I don't watch Port close enough from a tactical/structures/set up point of view but from watching games at a pub with beer in hand whilst chatting away i am comfortable to say they are NOT as good as any. I believe that the GF match up of Collingwood and Brisbane was the best two teams in the comp, not by heaps but by enough that most pundits had them playing in the GF and thats how it turned out.
I would also have a fully fit Melbourne a tad ahead of Port as well. Thats not saying Port couldn't beat them on any given day but no one was shocked that Port couldn't turn another top 4 finish into a GF appearance. Port are a very good side just not the best as the results showed.
BTW i think its fair to say i've been fairly spot on about Carey, his test career has been 'modest' at absolute best.
Playing unfit players in the finals contributed massively to falling over come finals along with a couple other coaching deficiencies. Winning 13 in a row didn't help in the long run either. Not sure how you could have Melbourne in front when you go through things in detail but anyway..
Back to your line comments
-Lacking in tall forwards that have a presence especially when Dixon is/was playing on one leg.
How many of these can you have in your squad. Go through each team if you are going to make this comment and check it out, more so the top teams. Dixon on one leg and wasn't rested as much as he should have with Georgiades out for the season. Don't know of any team that has 3 tall forwards with a presence that Dixon has.
-thin in the rucks as well
No arguments here - But look at the premiership side & their rucks, they aren't in the top 10-12 rucks in the comp. Good coaching can structure around this.
-Midfield depth just doesn't compare to the best side. I mean Collingwood had Mitchell starting on the bench in the grand final
Mitchell isn't who he used to be - I didn't think he was in their best side going into the finals. Rozee, Butters, Wines (When played in there like he should be - coaching issue) & JHF are the 4 best mids for the club. One of them is either starting fwd or on the bench? Taking any of those 4 over Mitchell?
You made the comment re not having a Petracca or De Goey type. Not sure how many of these guys are in the league? Bont, Cripps are others i can think of. They aren't common guys to have and are rare to find. Brisbane don't have one of those types.
You are a Hinkley fan but don't watch Port close enough from a tactical/structures/set up point of view?? Spare me the dribble
Not disagreeing but it also proves my point. Brisbane for as good as they are have no flag either despite having a very good midfield. They are missing one key ingredient that has been common in recent premiership side.
A key indicator of a team that can win a flag in recent history is that they have that big bull of a midfielder. Since 2016 you've had Richmond, Melbourne, Western Bulldogs, Collingwood, Geelong all win flags and unsurprisingly they have that bull of a midfielder that can also go forward and hit the scoreboard. WB-Bont, Geel- Dangerfield, Melb- Petracca, Rich- Martin, Coll- de Goey.
The reason i dont mind Hinkley is that i think he has done an acceptable job with them, no he hasnt got the flag but like Booney often says...it aint that easy. I think he has got Port to being a very good side but i also don't think the squad is just there 'yet' as far as winning a flag. IMO on many occasions Hinkley has got the best out of the quality in the squad eg this year. Port were a good side, probably about a 3-5 side on paper imo and thats where he got them. Had he got a flag i think he would have overachieved with that squad or more so the opponents they were facing and that would have been a goalith effort.
BTW i dont disagree about your comment on the rucks. Many a premiership side with 'serviceable' type ruckmen but you're going to need some serious inside mids. eg Collingwood this year. 2016 WB were inside beasts, Geelong were the same with great in and under blokes like Selwood.
by dedja » Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:02 pm
by Booney » Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:04 pm
dedja wrote:Hope you’re taking notes Boon.
by mots02 » Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:24 pm
Booney wrote:dedja wrote:Hope you’re taking notes Boon.
Fancy picking out the bits worth reading for me?
by dedja » Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:41 pm
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