The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

[cracka]

So going by your theory, if someone wanted to sue a major company & can only afford a lawyer who practices part time in that particular law then the company should also only be able to have a lawyer who practices part time in that particular law instead of the 20 full time professional lawyers they usually have. Welcome to fantasy land where everything has to be fair & even.

Bit confused at this post Cracka. You seem to be agreeing that having the two AFL Reserve teams competing in the SANFL is unfair, and anyone wanting the SANFL competition to be "fair & even" is in "fantasy land". Yet isn't the current structure of the AFL competition exactly that, designed to keep it "fair & even" by the order of the draft picks? You seem to want to have your cake and eat it, as my dad used to say.

Pretty sure the AFL gave leg ups to Brisbane, Sydney, Gold Coast & GWS that weren't fair. Also damn sure I've never complained about it

[cracka]

:lol:
I didn't mean to single that poor fella out. But I couldn't resist the irony of being told by a Crows fan that life is not fair.

That guy apparently is an Essendon supporter. And I reckon you would say suck it up princess

[cracka]

Different kettle of fish Cracka, the VFA disbanded in the 90s and the VFA clubs chose to join a competition run by the VFL.

But still full time footballers vs part time

Yes, correct, and the part time footballer clubs are dying rather quickly in that comp. Have you noticed?
You will not find me on the relevant football board preaching to all the long time fans of that comp that the reserves are actually good for them. Carlton or not

Wont find you complaining relentlessly about the unfair advantages the AFL clubs have over the stand alone clubs on the relevant football boards either.

No, we will find you on the relevant football board preaching that the reserves are good for the SANFL. Oh, and if it's not, that's because life is not fair.

no you won't coz I've never actually preached that

[Jim05]

So going by your theory, if someone wanted to sue a major company & can only afford a lawyer who practices part time in that particular law then the company should also only be able to have a lawyer who practices part time in that particular law instead of the 20 full time professional lawyers they usually have. Welcome to fantasy land where everything has to be fair & even.

Bit confused at this post Cracka. You seem to be agreeing that having the two AFL Reserve teams competing in the SANFL is unfair, and anyone wanting the SANFL competition to be "fair & even" is in "fantasy land". Yet isn't the current structure of the AFL competition exactly that, designed to keep it "fair & even" by the order of the draft picks? You seem to want to have your cake and eat it, as my dad used to say.

Pretty sure the AFL gave leg ups to Brisbane, Sydney, Gold Coast & GWS that weren't fair. Also damn sure I've never complained about it

I certainly did!
Hence why I'm quite happy to see the Lions struggling big time. The leg ups these expansion sides got was disgraceful

[Jim05]

It would become one very quickly.

Can't see it.
The AFL seem more intent on wasting money on AFLW or this AFLX crap. The next 4-5 years will be spent getting the AFLW up to 18 teams. AFL Reserves isn't even in the horizon especially with the Vic clubs happy to play in their 10 team reserves comp

[cracka]

So going by your theory, if someone wanted to sue a major company & can only afford a lawyer who practices part time in that particular law then the company should also only be able to have a lawyer who practices part time in that particular law instead of the 20 full time professional lawyers they usually have. Welcome to fantasy land where everything has to be fair & even.

Bit confused at this post Cracka. You seem to be agreeing that having the two AFL Reserve teams competing in the SANFL is unfair, and anyone wanting the SANFL competition to be "fair & even" is in "fantasy land". Yet isn't the current structure of the AFL competition exactly that, designed to keep it "fair & even" by the order of the draft picks? You seem to want to have your cake and eat it, as my dad used to say.

Pretty sure the AFL gave leg ups to Brisbane, Sydney, Gold Coast & GWS that weren't fair. Also damn sure I've never complained about it

I certainly did!
Hence why I'm quite happy to see the Lions struggling big time. The leg ups these expansion sides got was disgraceful

Maybe that's what's wrong with me, I tend to just deal with it and move on. I'm usually the one sticking up for the umpires etc. I blame the chemical imbalance in my brain

[Dutchy]

So compete with amateur leagues on the same platforms that they base their operations? Community based, family friendly etc.

Absolutely, always needs to be a league that is top of the tree, the best players outside the AFL should be in the SANFL, that is not the case currently.

[Dutchy]

Would you be able to pay non-SA born recently delisted or retired AFL guys enough to move their families to SA?

Let's say a marquee player is currently getting $30-40,000. John Butcher, Paul Stewart, Mitch Grigg etc. What sort of coin would you need to flash in front of someone who wasn't born in SA, has no ties in SA, has never lived in SA, to move and play here at say age 24, 25 that has recently been delisted? At a guess, $80-100k plus? How many are you thinking each team would want, 2 or 3?

Happens now when you throw in a job with the sponsors and employ the partner at the club.

Plenty of examples in the last 10 years of this happening.

[CUTTERMAN]

It will be interesting to see if there comes a time when struggling families, particularly in a state like SA, drop off in any meaningful number from the AFL, where they are helping to subsidize players who on average, will next year earn $370,000? The players in the AFL are so divorced from their own reality that some might have no choice if the disconnect gets any bigger. If that happens the SANFL and even some more prominent A1 clubs can hopefully get a bit more attention.

Agree. I've been waiting for the inevitable time when AFL is only available on pay TV and membership and tickets are out of reach on a regular basis for the average family, it's almost at that point now. The unfortunate timing is that the SANFL is so compromised that it's losing some of its core assests, its diehard members and supporters and now has next to no discussion in the media apart from the two reserves teams. By the time the AFL is out of reach for most people I'd expect the SANFL to be AFLSA, the clubs to lose its zones and juniors and AFL Monsanto will install an U18 TAC Cup comp for draft pathways thus offering no real alternative whatsoever. It's not far off in WA.
There's a good product to be embraced by families and supporters who don't want all the crap that goes in hand of attending an AFL game, the SANFL need to concentrate on these people, it's clubs and a comp with integrity, not what pleases AFL clubs.
Unfortunately time is running out and people who have the power to influence these issues don't seem to give a shit.

[Booney]

Would you be able to pay non-SA born recently delisted or retired AFL guys enough to move their families to SA?

Let's say a marquee player is currently getting $30-40,000. John Butcher, Paul Stewart, Mitch Grigg etc. What sort of coin would you need to flash in front of someone who wasn't born in SA, has no ties in SA, has never lived in SA, to move and play here at say age 24, 25 that has recently been delisted? At a guess, $80-100k plus? How many are you thinking each team would want, 2 or 3?

Happens now when you throw in a job with the sponsors and employ the partner at the club.

Plenty of examples in the last 10 years of this happening.

Plenty? Of one or two a year, can certainly attract SA people back, I agree, getting someone born and bred in Vic or WA to come here after an AFL career might be a little harder though. When I say AFL career I don't mean two years on a rookie list, if the competition is going to get stronger a rookie listed or two year senior list player isn't going to improve it much and you're not going to stump up $100k for someone like that.

I'm interested though, how is this funded? The AFL sides leave, the C7 exposure is cut or leaves, the sponsors get left with a barely reliable streaming service as exposure that is only really used by people who support the club and know who the sponsors are anyway,

So spending would have to go up, there's a high likely hood revenue goes down, you see it otherwise? ( revenue up? )

[Dutchy]

SANFL and club admin need to work harder and invest in the competition, not just $$$$

Going back to 2013 and the GFC Members meeting, Chiggy basically admitted the AFL sides in SANFL was the easiest option and they saw it as the way forward. As many thought it was the golden bullet and with the sale of AAMI its fair to say admin have taken their eye off the ball and we are where we are today with the AFL cancers in and the comp going backwards.

Just like any competition in any sport at any level, hard work pays off.

Can anyone tell me if the Crows are visiting zoned schools in the week leading up to their game against SANFL clubs as promised? ive seen no evidence of this.

[Ronnie]

[quote="Dutchy"]Can anyone tell me if the Crows are visiting zoned schools in the week leading up to their game against SANFL clubs as promised? ive seen no evidence of this.

Even Rucci has said that this isn't happening. Whether SANFL clubs themselves don't want this to happen I don't know. But you would think school visits in the lead up to a game at the local SANFL venue would be beneficial.

Anyone who enters into a contract or agreement should surely be measuring these undertakings. But like a lot of people on here I suspect the SANFL just thinks it's all academic anyway.

The trends are there if the SANFL want to act on them. The AFL is slowly disappearing off free to air television, many people are simply not able to afford the serious money required to attend AFL games on a regular basis. The SANFL should be perfectly placed to offer a serious alternative that is sustainable and that the fan, for moderate financial commitment, has a real connection to, watching players that are more accessible to them.

[Pseudo]

SANFL and club admin need to work harder and invest in the competition, not just $$$$

Going back to 2013 and the GFC Members meeting, Chiggy basically admitted the AFL sides in SANFL was the easiest option and they saw it as the way forward. As many thought it was the golden bullet and with the sale of AAMI its fair to say admin have taken their eye off the ball and we are where we are today with the AFL cancers in and the comp going backwards.

Just like any competition in any sport at any level, hard work pays off.

Can anyone tell me if the Crows are visiting zoned schools in the week leading up to their game against SANFL clubs as promised? ive seen no evidence of this.

^ in a nutshell.

The sooner the clubs quit sucking on the AFL teat and take on a bit of responsibility for their own existence, the better.

[therisingblues]

Would you be able to pay non-SA born recently delisted or retired AFL guys enough to move their families to SA?

Let's say a marquee player is currently getting $30-40,000. John Butcher, Paul Stewart, Mitch Grigg etc. What sort of coin would you need to flash in front of someone who wasn't born in SA, has no ties in SA, has never lived in SA, to move and play here at say age 24, 25 that has recently been delisted? At a guess, $80-100k plus? How many are you thinking each team would want, 2 or 3?

Happens now when you throw in a job with the sponsors and employ the partner at the club.

Plenty of examples in the last 10 years of this happening.

Plenty? Of one or two a year, can certainly attract SA people back, I agree, getting someone born and bred in Vic or WA to come here after an AFL career might be a little harder though. When I say AFL career I don't mean two years on a rookie list, if the competition is going to get stronger a rookie listed or two year senior list player isn't going to improve it much and you're not going to stump up $100k for someone like that.

I'm interested though, how is this funded? The AFL sides leave, the C7 exposure is cut or leaves, the sponsors get left with a barely reliable streaming service as exposure that is only really used by people who support the club and know who the sponsors are anyway,

So spending would have to go up, there's a high likely hood revenue goes down, you see it otherwise? ( revenue up? )

Not so sure that we need the marquee players to bolster the sides. Sturt won a flag last year without this type of player, unless you put the likes of Reilly, Battersby, Martin and MacMahon in this category owing to their past AFL experience.
I would hazard a guess that kicking the AFL reserves out of the SANFL would bolster crowds, regardless of the presence of marquee players. If we could get back to what the SANFL was 5 years ago, instead of a poor man's AFL as it is advertising itself as currently, the overall health of the competition would improve.

[Booney]

TRB, this was the start of that portion of this discussion.

Play to the competitions strengths, suburban, tribal, local, 2nd tier footy based around the next best from the AFL....simply make it the competition that players want to be part of once their AFL career finishes or stalls. And one that the grassroots footballer wants to be part of.

Imagine a comp that seriously attracted ex-AFL players and the best of the Ammo's/Country (there are thousands playing each weekend that are good enough), it would be a serious 2nd tier comp

[JK]

Plenty of whispers around that the SANFL will be REDUCING the Salary Cap next season

[mighty_tiger_79]

Plenty of whispers around that the SANFL will be REDUCING the Salary Cap next season

How does that help?

[JK]

Plenty of whispers around that the SANFL will be REDUCING the Salary Cap next season

How does that help?

I guess they figure it helps clubs struggling financially? Or maybe it gets closer to the TPP the AFL have long wanted for us, so might increase AFL funding. In short, That's just me speculating though. I don't think it helps with the end product in any way whatsoever.

[therisingblues]

TRB, this was the start of that portion of this discussion.

Play to the competitions strengths, suburban, tribal, local, 2nd tier footy based around the next best from the AFL....simply make it the competition that players want to be part of once their AFL career finishes or stalls. And one that the grassroots footballer wants to be part of.

Imagine a comp that seriously attracted ex-AFL players and the best of the Ammo's/Country (there are thousands playing each weekend that are good enough), it would be a serious 2nd tier comp

Okay, I missed the start.
I wouldn't rule the possibility out altogether though. After all, this IS what the SANFL was before the reserves entered.
The level of popularity that the SANFL would attract if it returned to that model, albeit without current AFL players participating, is as yet an unknowm quantity. But an under recognised selling point of that old SANFL was that it was a more honest version of the game. Without the media saturation, the flashy lights, the players who've been personally trained to say the right things when a mic is stuck in their face, without the constant rule changes, etc.
The old SANFL far out performed the WAFL and other domestic leagues in terms of popularity. I believe the reason is that there is a true appreciation of the traditional aspect of life about South Australians. I reckon it is an innate understanding that there are more important things in life than flashy lights and seeing who can jump high enough each time some big corporation promises more flashy lights in exchange for souls. (Okay, that is comes across as a bit heavy, but it is a basic truth.)
I believe this is one of our state's strengths.

[Booney]

TRB, this was the start of that portion of this discussion.

Play to the competitions strengths, suburban, tribal, local, 2nd tier footy based around the next best from the AFL....simply make it the competition that players want to be part of once their AFL career finishes or stalls. And one that the grassroots footballer wants to be part of.

Imagine a comp that seriously attracted ex-AFL players and the best of the Ammo's/Country (there are thousands playing each weekend that are good enough), it would be a serious 2nd tier comp

Okay, I missed the start.
I wouldn't rule the possibility out altogether though. After all, this IS what the SANFL was before the reserves entered.
The level of popularity that the SANFL would attract if it returned to that model, albeit without current AFL players participating, is as yet an unknowm quantity. But an under recognised selling point of that old SANFL was that it was a more honest version of the game. Without the media saturation, the flashy lights, the players who've been personally trained to say the right things when a mic is stuck in their face, without the constant rule changes, etc.
The old SANFL far out performed the WAFL and other domestic leagues in terms of popularity. I believe the reason is that there is a true appreciation of the traditional aspect of life about South Australians. I reckon it is an innate understanding that there are more important things in life than flashy lights and seeing who can jump high enough each time some big corporation promises more flashy lights in exchange for souls. (Okay, that is comes across as a bit heavy, but it is a basic truth.)
I believe this is one of our state's strengths.

Take the reserves out, it won't ever be the old SANFL in the corporate world football now finds itself in.

I know the reserves are the overwhelming point to the debate, I know, but thinking about days or yore are, in my view, futile. If ( not so much when ) the reserves leave then I don't see how the corporate dollar will keep coming in to support the clubs, if as proposed by Dutchy, they endeavor to recruit more and more ex-AFL talent.

Your point about Reilly, Battersby, Martin and MacMahon are perfect examples, they have or did live in SA, to convince ex-AFL players to come to SA based on $50k and a job wouldn't, IMO, be viable for those who have no connection to SA.

I'm all for the SANFL flourishing once more, but I don't think the recruiting drive to ex-AFL is a sustainable one. Not for many of the clubs who struggle financially, not just now, but perennially.