Mass debate with Morell

[Footy Chick]

What took you so long Jimmy?

[Yank Man]

What took you so long Jimmy?

To be continued, depending on how much work morell has on tomorrow. Coming up to end of financial year so hopefully he will soon be very busy.

[morell]

The current AFL insurance scheme for community football is self insured through a Managed Investment Scheme as a discretionary trust to do exactly as you suggest Morrell. You are obviously a pioneering man both way ahead of most, but way behind others

https://afl.jltsport.com.au/products_pi.aspx

That's... awesome!! How interesting. Hmph. Thanks for that Jimmy.

I could never even pretend to be an insurance or investment expert. Just the opposite. But I like to think I have a reasonable grasp of logic - and the traditional insurance business model really doesn't make much logical sense, unless of course you're an insurance salesman or stockholder!

Something to think about anyway.

Onwards and upwards, I am sure this tread will come in handy soon enough - maybe this could be the new Adam Goodes thread? Whattya reckon mods?

[Look Good In Leather]

The current AFL insurance scheme for community football is self insured through a Managed Investment Scheme as a discretionary trust to do exactly as you suggest Morrell. You are obviously a pioneering man both way ahead of most, but way behind others

https://afl.jltsport.com.au/products_pi.aspx

The discretionary trust I believe has a limit however (which offsets the risk we were discussing) and my understanding is that it covers items that fit outside the boundaries of the personal accident cover (which is underwritten by SportsCover/Wild Goose and reinsured across an array of Lloyd's syndicates like a traditional policy).

[morell]

I have heard that just about all insurance is underwritten (once you follow the rabbit all the way down the hole) by a handful of very large international banks.

So when you're choosing between Health Partners and Bupa, you're just nit picking about minutia and choosing which logo you prefer, underneath it's all the same.

An example of this is the one Jimmy linked above, which is underwritten by CGU.

CGU is underwritten by Insurance Australia Group

Which is underwritten by ...

etc

[Jimmy_041]

LGIL - Incorrect
Morrell - Correct (well sort of) CGU is the insurer. IAG own CGU (& a few others like SGIC).

SportsCover do the VAFA
SANFL (& all SA affiliated leagues) are insured by the JLT fund which has an aggregate limit. It then is insured by Accident & Health - an agency owned by CGU who ultimately hold the risk. I doubt they would have reinsurance on that size risk but you/we would never see or know it anyway

[Jimmy_041]

What took you so long Jimmy?

I don't normally get involved in mass debates.
I find they get too easily out of hand

[Look Good In Leather]

LGIL - Incorrect
Morrell - Correct

SportsCover do the VAFA
SANFL (& all SA affiliated leagues) are insured by the JLT fund which has an aggregate limit. It then is insured by Accident & Health - an agency owned by CGU who ultimately hold the risk. I doubt they would have reinsurance on that size risk but you/we would never see or know it anyway

Apologies, I haven't looked that closely, but the concept was correct
You may be right on the reinsurance part - they certainly have that spread around for PL

[Lightning McQueen]

What took you so long Jimmy?

I don't normally get involved in mass debates.
I find they get too easily out of hand

Like the masturbating robot.

Pulled himself to bits.

[Jimmy_041]

LGIL - Incorrect
Morrell - Correct

SportsCover do the VAFA
SANFL (& all SA affiliated leagues) are insured by the JLT fund which has an aggregate limit. It then is insured by Accident & Health - an agency owned by CGU who ultimately hold the risk. I doubt they would have reinsurance on that size risk but you/we would never see or know it anyway

Apologies, I haven't looked that closely, but the concept was correct
You may be right on the reinsurance part - they certainly have that spread around for PL

The PL is insured differently as there is no discretionary trust.
You don't have the frequency and known losses as with the PA
You are correct - it is co-insured (ie) two insurers take a percentage of the total risk
The chance of a big hit, or no of big hits, is too great, and the premium too small, to self insure

The idea of the discretionary trust is to self insure the "known" losses (ie) you know there will be a total of $1.4m in losses in any one year so why insure it when the insurers are just going to add 40% onto the $1.4m and act as a manager and bank account. There's no risk because you're 100% certain to pay it out. Morrell's theory is correct - the premiums are invested and interest goes towards the $1.4m so, theoretically, you only need to collect $1.2m in premiums.

[Lightning McQueen]

JLT insures our cricket association which all clubs HAVE to pay a levy to depending on how many sides they have.

They are really good until you actually need to make a claim, you have to jump through hoops and they manage to be exempt from any medical fee's that you are likely to encounter.

[morell]

LGIL - Incorrect
Morrell - Correct

Could have just stopped there Jimmy.

[Jimmy_041]

LGIL - Incorrect
Morrell - Correct

Could have just stopped there Jimmy.

Probably didn't even need to say that morell
You were never in doubt

[morell]

So I have been politely told that insurance is batshit boring, and to get into more entertaining topics. Such as ..

morell's myths!!! *applause*

For those playing at home, this is what we're up to:

morell's Myths!
1. You play the way you train.
2. Pre-seasons are really important in amateur football.
3. Stretching achieves anything, ever.
4. Every club pays players.
5. Getting to a game early allows for a superior preparation.
6. Business slacks make you a more professional and disciplined club.
7. Strapping does anything, ever.
8. Outside players are soft.
9. Going up a division attracts better quality players and people.

I think it's now time for number 10!

10. Voice and communication is REALLY important

Complete myth! It always gets trotted out at training and before games - "lift your voice lads" , "even if you're not getting the ball, still use your voice" , "there's no voice out there, lets lift it up!" etc

I reckon every coach I have ever had has used this mantra, it's as if they think that yelling something across the field magically turns spud footballers into Ablett - like some sort of Harry Potter spell.

Give me 21 talented, motivated, smart, strong, young footballers with each position covered in a decent structure and rip out their voiceboxes. Copy and paste them but downgrade them all slightly so they're a bit shorter, a bit weaker, replace the CHB with a softi-ish flanker and take out the Full Forward and replace with stubby type. If they played each other the voiceless ones would win 99 times out of 100.

Now that's not to say one shouldn't yell out "mine!" or "you're hot", but to make it such a large focus is disproportionate to it's actual impact on gameday. I know personally I often don't hear voice if i'm concentrating on the ball. There are so many voices out there that its almost impossible to delineate what is the correct thing to listen to and what isn't. And that's if the person yelling out incoherent mumbo jumbo gets it right anyway.

Classic example is a game I played recently, we're were getting a bit of a towel up so I moved to a loose man in defense. I am sitting in front of the full forward and the ball comes in - I hear clearly "You're right Morgs! You're right morgs! You're right". So of course I think OK, I will sit here and take an easy mark, because.... I was OK and in the clear, right? The full forward glides over the top and takes a mark as I sat there looking like a moron. I turned and laughed and said "I thought you said I was right?!?!" Full back replies - "yeah I meant that you wouldn't get cleaned up so you could attack it". Right. I would have been better off not hearing anything and just assuming I needed to attack it.

I wonder how many times voice helps, and how many times voice distracts?

I think it's a case, as with many of morell's myths, that we don't see the forest for the trees. We focus on tiny little minutiae that in the grand scheme of things don't matter.

inb4 - this is why Mitchell Park are 1-5 in D7, because you don't use your voice.

[Q.]

Voice and communication are two different things.

Good communication is very important, particularly at stoppages and congested situations.

[jo172]

Give me 21 talented, motivated, smart, strong, young footballers with each position covered in a decent structure and rip out their voiceboxes. Copy and paste them but downgrade them all slightly so they're a bit shorter, a bit weaker, replace the CHB with a softi-ish flanker and take out the Full Forward and replace with stubby type. If they played each other the voiceless ones would win 99 times out of 100.

I think you've set up a false dichotomy.

Get your set of 21 footballers (talented or not), put them through a cloning machine, take out the voice boxes but leave their other physical characteristics and football abilities in tact and get them to play a game. There I think you'll see the importance of voice.

Voice probably lifts a player or team's game/ability at most 10% (but more likely a fraction of that).

It is however one of the easier things to improve on relative to building fitness and/or skill ability which is why I suspect coaches fixate so much on it. Voice is something that you can realistically turn around in a week. Teaching your ruckman how to kick however, that takes time.

[heater31]

Voice and communication are two different things.

Good communication is very important, particularly at stoppages and congested situations.

Correct, yelling mindless shit on the field is pointless. Must be directed at either the ball carrier (let them know if they have an opponent close) or directing traffic at stoppages ( opposition players round up on to unsuspecting team-mates who think they might be clear)

[WOS Dragons]

Using your voice for communication and direction is just another skill set that needs to be developed. I think in the lower levels football skills will generally be enough to make you an effective player but the higher you go the more important team structures and therefore communication become. I disagree with you on this myth as much as I disagree with 3, 7 and 9.

[jo172]

Using your voice for communication and direction is just another skill set that needs to be developed. I think in the lower levels football skills will generally be enough to make you an effective player but the higher you go the more important team structures and therefore communication become. I disagree with you on this myth as much as I disagree with 3, 7 and 9.

I would also like to register my strong opposition to Myth Number 9. I know numerous examples of that being untrue from personal experience. It's not determinative in itself, but is a significant factor.

[Q.]

Using your voice for communication and direction is just another skill set that needs to be developed. I think in the lower levels football skills will generally be enough to make you an effective player but the higher you go the more important team structures and therefore communication become. I disagree with you on this myth as much as I disagree with 3, 7 and 9.

It's important at every level and is often the difference between an ineffective kick hacked out of congestion and an effective handball out of congestion to a player who has time to deliver an effective kick.