Biggest Finals Upsets

[Q.]

There can only be one winner, sometimes you just get beaten by better teams.

[morell]

Well sure, Q, but I think there is something in the theory that Old Scholar teams, or even community based teams, fare better in finals than mercenary/football budget teams.

[Q.]

You're assuming Old Scholar teams don't pay.

[HH3]

Ive always wondered, do you have to have gone to the school to play for an Old Scholars side? Or is it the same as a normal club, but with old students as well?

[Q.]

Same as any club.

[WOS Dragons]

I don't think it has anything to do with being old scholars or whether or not you pay players. To me its far more critical that players get along at a club and socialise together, this this makes them a stronger unit and therefore harder to beat in big games. Its easy to point to paid players causing divisions in teams after they lose but nothing would get said if they win. Our bond became much tighter throughout the finals after a few big nights late in the season brought the team closer together and I think that showed through the finals series. I think on grand final day we had 13 old scholars out of the 22 players so not a huge number.

[morell]

You're assuming Old Scholar teams don't pay.

No not at all. I know they pay some..

But they have, IMO, and generally speaking, a stronger connection and sense of community/team than "mercenary" clubs.

I reckon it would be part of the reason why teams like CLG, Rosewater and others quite often go all guns blazing during the year, but fail at the critical time when they play teams like WOS, BOS and others...

Just a hypothesis, haven't actually tested it, but CLG people get all defensive and dont want to answer my questions so......

[morell]

I don't think it has anything to do with being old scholars or whether or not you pay players. To me its far more critical that players get along at a club and socialise together

But this is the exact point!

If you're an old scholars club, there is a reasonable chance that a lot of the players have known eachother for a long time, gone to school together, or at least socialised together outside of footy for a long time.

If you're a mercenary club that recruits players who are there for money, this wouldn't be the case - or at least not to the same degree, which might not cause divisions or mutiny or anything like that, I am sure they're still good people, but in cut throat finals, playing for your mates that you've known since year 9, counts for a bit.

Personally speaking, I played for a team in Victoria that paid players, I was one of them, and it was different. Everyone was friendly enough towards each other but it definitely wasnt a group of mates playing together.

It's a factor come finals time IMO and might go some way to explaining CLG choking against WOS all the time.

[Q.]

Then work on the team bonding stuff. Nothing like a big night on the gas to bring blokes together.

[Mr Beefy]

I don't think it has anything to do with being old scholars or whether or not you pay players. To me its far more critical that players get along at a club and socialise together

But this is the exact point!

If you're an old scholars club, there is a reasonable chance that a lot of the players have known eachother for a long time, gone to school together, or at least socialised together outside of footy for a long time.

If you're a mercenary club that recruits players who are there for money, this wouldn't be the case - or at least not to the same degree, which might not cause divisions or mutiny or anything like that, I am sure they're still good people, but in cut throat finals, playing for your mates that you've known since year 9, counts for a bit.

Personally speaking, I played for a team in Victoria that paid players, I was one of them, and it was different. Everyone was friendly enough towards each other but it definitely wasnt a group of mates playing together.

It's a factor come finals time IMO and might go some way to explaining CLG choking against WOS all the time.

Maybe everyone else just didn't like you?

[morell]

Hahahah!

Probably very true, but it was noted by several other individuals as well.

[morell]

Then work on the team bonding stuff. Nothing like a big night on the gas to bring blokes together.

With old scholars teams this has already happened organically, it takes time to forge these things.

A night or two out on the town isn't going to replicate 15 years worth of friendship.

But how important is it? Is social harmony something that is significantly different between Old Scholar Clubs and others? I couldn't tell you, never played in an OS team, but they always seem very close and lift in the finals.

[Q.]

But, you're working on the assumption that the majority of a team were all in the same year of high school. I don't think it quite works like that.

[Q.]

I think a club atmosphere can be galvanising. I don't think a galvanising atmosphere has anything to do with whether people went to school together. And I'm saying this coming from a club where a lot of the players are BPOS.

[Boosh]

I don't think it has anything to do with being old scholars or whether or not you pay players. To me its far more critical that players get along at a club and socialise together

But this is the exact point!

If you're an old scholars club, there is a reasonable chance that a lot of the players have known eachother for a long time, gone to school together, or at least socialised together outside of footy for a long time.

If you're a mercenary club that recruits players who are there for money, this wouldn't be the case - or at least not to the same degree, which might not cause divisions or mutiny or anything like that, I am sure they're still good people, but in cut throat finals, playing for your mates that you've known since year 9, counts for a bit.

Personally speaking, I played for a team in Victoria that paid players, I was one of them, and it was different. Everyone was friendly enough towards each other but it definitely wasnt a group of mates playing together.

It's a factor come finals time IMO and might go some way to explaining CLG choking against WOS all the time.

The case in point is WOS vs North Haven, as Dragons says being old scholars has nothing to do with it and in my opinon being a close group is only part of it.
North Haven had 21 players of 22 in that game live with in a few kilometres of our club, most went to school together, played juniors together or are close friends in many cases all three. Add to that 3 sets of brothers and a father was assistant coach. I have never got along with a football team as much as I have with this one.

Yet we got comprehensively beaten by a team who was in good form, finals hardened and had an excellent game plan that was executed perfectly.

[Boosh]

Also we pay players which had nothing to do with it.

Shocking isn't it.

[zedman]

But, you're working on the assumption that the majority of a team were all in the same year of high school. I don't think it quite works like that.

this is what i said 2 weeks ago on the Div 5 thread which seems to be the gist of the discussion..

"old scholar clubs seem find something extra in finals..there is an invisible bond between them all no matter the age and so many are mates before they are team mates..this is what they seem to be able to draw on in important games and that can make them very, very dangerous.."

i have played for an OS club that won a premiership that we werent supposed to win..but being an OS club is by no means THE factor in who wins..district/suburban clubs can still replicate the great team bonding we find with OS clubs..there are hundreds of successful examples of that..in the end the best team with the best momentum on the day wins..its as boringly simple as that..

[morell]

I don't think it has anything to do with being old scholars or whether or not you pay players. To me its far more critical that players get along at a club and socialise together

But this is the exact point!

If you're an old scholars club, there is a reasonable chance that a lot of the players have known eachother for a long time, gone to school together, or at least socialised together outside of footy for a long time.

If you're a mercenary club that recruits players who are there for money, this wouldn't be the case - or at least not to the same degree, which might not cause divisions or mutiny or anything like that, I am sure they're still good people, but in cut throat finals, playing for your mates that you've known since year 9, counts for a bit.

Personally speaking, I played for a team in Victoria that paid players, I was one of them, and it was different. Everyone was friendly enough towards each other but it definitely wasnt a group of mates playing together.

It's a factor come finals time IMO and might go some way to explaining CLG choking against WOS all the time.

The case in point is WOS vs North Haven, as Dragons says being old scholars has nothing to do with it and in my opinon being a close group is only part of it.
North Haven had 21 players of 22 in that game live with in a few kilometres of our club, most went to school together, played juniors together or are close friends in many cases all three. Add to that 3 sets of brothers and a father was assistant coach. I have never got along with a football team as much as I have with this one.

Yet we got comprehensively beaten by a team who was in good form, finals hardened and had an excellent game plan that was executed perfectly.

Don't disagree with anything you've said at all. Even with Mitchell Park this year, we had the worst year on the field in living memory, but off the field we were as tight knit as ever and had a ball. Two years ago we wont the flag and went near undefeated - there were guys who played together in that side that wouldn't share a beer at the same bar more than likely.

Being a close knit team and mates isn't going to replace talent, structure, good form etc etc, but I do think it can be the proverbial cherry on the cupcake and in some way, it could explain some of CLG's finals losses of late.

[morell]

But, you're working on the assumption that the majority of a team were all in the same year of high school. I don't think it quite works like that.

Like most football clubs, I would hazard a guess that there are smaller groups of mates within the broader club. I'm suggesting that if those smaller groups have been mates for a long time or have a distinct social connection to the club other than money, that it could be something that provides an extra 2% come preliminary or grand final day.

Other than that, explain CLGs finals history. I sure can't.

[Q.]

Other than that, explain CLGs finals history. I sure can't.

A certain key forward always goes missing against the good teams?