Essendon

[Red Rocket]

Like most people id like to see Essendon struggle at the bottom but not at the expense of justice.
At the start of this saga I must confess I judged them as guilty but the more this whole farce has gone on I get the feeling that most of it has been a media beatup and they are scapegoats. I still think the club and Hird acted poorly and that Hird probably shouldnt come back but im yet to be convinced they did anything other than run program that is unethical.
This Harcourt stuff in the last few days is a disgrace and if true it paints a horrible picture of the AFL. they haf an inkling Essendon were close to the edge and chose to send off blood samples secretly but were not prepared to step in and stop it, they waited nearly 12 months until Essendon self reported. By doing this hasnt the AFL breached its own codes of confuct and duty of care to players?
Im no lawyer but ASADA's case is full of holes and I believe Essendon had a couple of wins today and ASADA are required to hand over plenty of documents. I can see this whole case falling over and ASADA having to start again.
At worst players will cop 6 month bans but ive got a feeling they may escape altogether

The case won't fall over. 1 thing is ASADA is a government organisation, second thing is Essendon are about to wake up a sleeping giant WADA. WADA won't be to far off stepping in. If Essendon are innocent like they claim then they would never be fighting it in court.

Dont know about you but if I believed I was innocent I would do everything in my power to be proven innocent.
Ive gone to court over a $45 parking fine before so if I was charged as being a drug cheat id do everything possible to clear my name.
Yes it looks like a stalling tactic by Essendon but if they believe they are innocent then they deserve to fight it in court, it doesnt matter that ASADA are a government agency or not they still have to operate by the law and I think everyone would admit some of their procedures are not great and if they have gathered information illegally than the case should be thrown out.
Its then up to ASADA to start fresh and go about properly, if they do this and all evidence leads to them as taking banned drugs then give them a 2 year ban. I think Essendon now get to see the documents outlining what charges the players face and what evidence ASADA has, this seems bizarre that the judge would grant this.
As you said though WADA may come in over the top anyway.

[kickinit]

Like most people id like to see Essendon struggle at the bottom but not at the expense of justice.
At the start of this saga I must confess I judged them as guilty but the more this whole farce has gone on I get the feeling that most of it has been a media beatup and they are scapegoats. I still think the club and Hird acted poorly and that Hird probably shouldnt come back but im yet to be convinced they did anything other than run program that is unethical.
This Harcourt stuff in the last few days is a disgrace and if true it paints a horrible picture of the AFL. they haf an inkling Essendon were close to the edge and chose to send off blood samples secretly but were not prepared to step in and stop it, they waited nearly 12 months until Essendon self reported. By doing this hasnt the AFL breached its own codes of confuct and duty of care to players?
Im no lawyer but ASADA's case is full of holes and I believe Essendon had a couple of wins today and ASADA are required to hand over plenty of documents. I can see this whole case falling over and ASADA having to start again.
At worst players will cop 6 month bans but ive got a feeling they may escape altogether

The case won't fall over. 1 thing is ASADA is a government organisation, second thing is Essendon are about to wake up a sleeping giant WADA. WADA won't be to far off stepping in. If Essendon are innocent like they claim then they would never be fighting it in court.

Dont know about you but if I believed I was innocent I would do everything in my power to be proven innocent.
Ive gone to court over a $45 parking fine before so if I was charged as being a drug cheat id do everything possible to clear my name.
Yes it looks like a stalling tactic by Essendon but if they believe they are innocent then they deserve to fight it in court, it doesnt matter that ASADA are a government agency or not they still have to operate by the law and I think everyone would admit some of their procedures are not great and if they have gathered information illegally than the case should be thrown out.
Its then up to ASADA to start fresh and go about properly, if they do this and all evidence leads to them as taking banned drugs then give them a 2 year ban. I think Essendon now get to see the documents outlining what charges the players face and what evidence ASADA has, this seems bizarre that the judge would grant this.
As you said though WADA may come in over the top anyway.

I understand what your saying about fighting it, anyone would. But they could easily fight it at the hearing. Essendon aren't trying to fight this as their "innocent" they are trying to get the investigation stopped so they can't be found guilty. The way I look at it is the players always had their lawyers present when doing interviews and agree to do the interviews. If they agreed to it with their lawyer present then I couldn't care less who was in the interview. It's time Essendon stepped up and admitted guilt, instead of trying to shift the blame to everyone that's ever said a word about the doping incident. I hope WADA step in and take them to the cleaners. Hird and Little think their bigger then the game and need to go immediately.

[cracka]

Just remember him lance Armstrong never tested positive to drug test, even when they where trying to get him. Also the substance isn't a banned substance because it's been proven to be performance enhancing. It's banned because there hasn't been any testing done on it. Meaning no one has the correct method for testing samples. A lot of drug cheats never test positive for this simple fact, they are using substances that the testers don't know about.

He also knew he was taking banned substances, was actually the instigator of their drug program & deliberately tried to get away with it. I dont believe the players are at fault here & shouldn't be penalised. The club, Hird & especially Dank should cop all punishments.

The players are well and truly at fault. The players knew exactly what they where given. Players aren't dumb when it comes to doping, they do sit through programs which teaches them about it and what to do. First thing that rings alarm bells is injections, you can pretty much guarantee anything you need to inject is illegal. Secondly to find out whether or not a substance is banned or not is pretty dam simple and can be done within 5mins.

Bullsh!t the players are at fault. No one knows what they were given yet & wont know until Dank talks. Players get injections all the time during games for pain relief etc, so not everything injected is illegal.

[Jim05]

Bullsh!t the players are at fault. No one knows what they were given yet & wont know until Dank talks. Players get injections all the time during games for pain relief etc, so not everything injected is illegal.

Well that aint going to happen.
Dank will never talk, if he does he probably goes to jail.

[dedja]

Just remember him lance Armstrong never tested positive to drug test, even when they where trying to get him. Also the substance isn't a banned substance because it's been proven to be performance enhancing. It's banned because there hasn't been any testing done on it. Meaning no one has the correct method for testing samples. A lot of drug cheats never test positive for this simple fact, they are using substances that the testers don't know about.

Incorrect, he DID test positive but bullshitted his way out of it and possibly bribed officials.

[kickinit]

Just remember him lance Armstrong never tested positive to drug test, even when they where trying to get him. Also the substance isn't a banned substance because it's been proven to be performance enhancing. It's banned because there hasn't been any testing done on it. Meaning no one has the correct method for testing samples. A lot of drug cheats never test positive for this simple fact, they are using substances that the testers don't know about.

Incorrect, he DID test positive but bullshitted his way out of it and possibly bribed officials.

You talking about 1999? Yes he tested positive to steroid use, but had a script from the doc. He only tested positive a couple of times throughout the tour which WADA said was consistent with what they would of expected with the cream he was using. The cream was also deemed ok to use. So he never gave a positive test to a banned substance.

[dedja]

The script from the doc was falsified to cover the positive test

[kickinit]

The script from the doc was falsified to cover the positive test

He tested positive a couple of times over a entire tour, also have completing negative test in between. testers where happy with the results, as they said they would expect to see that from using that cream. He was never charged with a positive test. If they thought it was crap they would of banned him back in 1999.

[westcoastpanther]

Good win last night......

[dedja]

The script from the doc was falsified to cover the positive test

He tested positive a couple of times over a entire tour, also have completing negative test in between. testers where happy with the results, as they said they would expect to see that from using that cream. He was never charged with a positive test. If they thought it was crap they would of banned him back in 1999.

But you said he never tested positive ...

[Jim05]

Good win against the old enemy on the weekend.
Carlisle had a blinder and appears that one on one training he has been doing with the King for the last few months is coming to fruition.
Didnt think we could win minus Jobe, BJ and Hibberd but others have stepped into the void. Jobe's injury has forced guys like Myers to step up.
Heppell is having a very good season and reckon he could poll well in the Brownlow. And young Zach what a steal at pick 26.

[JK]

You probably have the best group of non-household names, if that makes sense.

I don't rate Collingwood particularly highly this year, but like you I thought trying to cover BJ, JW, and MH would be too big an ask.

I know you've mixed your form in the last two seasons, but it's included several gutsy wins, and your younger players are getting more experienced .. A coupla good drafts/recruits in the off-season and I reckon you should be up among the challengers next season.

[Jim05]

You probably have the best group of non-household names, if that makes sense.

I don't rate Collingwood particularly highly this year, but like you I thought trying to cover BJ, JW, and MH would be too big an ask.

I know you've mixed your form in the last two seasons, but it's included several gutsy wins, and your younger players are getting more experienced .. A coupla good drafts/recruits in the off-season and I reckon you should be up among the challengers next season.

Our draft sanctions will hurt us but hopefully we can uncover another gem like Zac down the order. Could also trade to get back into the draft of maybe FA but im not sure we have many guys with too much currency that we dont want to keep.

[JK]

Ahh, forgot about the draft sanctions, that will hurt.

[Jim05]

Ahh, forgot about the draft sanctions, that will hurt.

We lost 1st and 2nd round picks but Little negotiated to get a pick at end of Round 1, so probably pick 20ish, not sure how many priority/concession picks there are this year.
We can also trade into the picks

[Ron Burgundy]

2014 been a big enough roller coaster for you Jimbo?!

[Jim05]

2014 been a big enough roller coaster for you Jimbo?!

The off field stuff yes but we are used to the on field stuff. Had some really good wins but equally we have lost to the Saints and Dees, no team aiming for finals should lose to either of these. Coughing up late leads has also cost us, led the Hawks, Cats and Dees deep into time on and lost them all. We are one of the best defensive sides in the comp but still dont convert enough from our forward entries. Still a chance to sneak into the 8 and could possibly win 1 final depending on the opponent and venue but still a fair way off the top 4 sides.

[RustyCage]

[PatowalongaPirate]

That is good news for the Bombers. Hibberd has had a very consistent year thus far, and if he has a good finish he might find himself in All Australian contention.

[Jim05]

Pig has been very good for us after a rough start to his career. Probably one of our most reliable players now and happy to have him re-sign.