1989 VFL GF > 2006 AFL GF

[Hondo]

That what the AFL needs high scoring attacking footy then people will be interested in it more.

Attendances and TV ratings are up this year I am never sure why people think the AFL is struggling for or losing support

[Rik E Boy]

This is the average number of scoring shot per match by both teams combined for the past 30 VFL/AFL seasons:

1978 58.54
1979 60.38
1980 59.14
1981 57.41
1982 62.32
1983 58.35
1984 57.62
1985 58.05
1986 55.99
1987 57.10
1988 54.99
1989 53.89
1990 55.69
1991 56.84
1992 57.06
1993 57.20
1994 52.43
1995 51.90
1996 51.26
1997 50.20
1998 51.37
1999 50.70
2000 55.05
2001 52.50
2002 50.26
2003 50.62
2004 50.11
2005 50.85
2006 51.06
2007 52.27 (to Round

LOL. As usual a thorough selection of data from the master. However, more scoring shots do not always necessarily equate to high scoring. For example, these days we hear a lot of commetators carping on about how kicking is the one skill that hasn't advanced but many sides give up the pockets while crowding the 'hot spot'. This means more scoring shots from difficult positions and a lower accuracy rate.

Er...while you are at it spelly, can you source up some accuracy rates? If you have that data next to the data you have presented we would a more complete representation of scoring rates. I am surprised by these numbers though. When I was talking earlier about 'dour' 80's football, I read about that from 100 Years of Australian Football that was published for the league's centenary year.

regards,

REB

[Hondo]

Let's be honest, the average scoring shots are different by only 1.6 from the Golden year of 1989 to this season.

I think too much is being made of 1 game in 1989 (in terms of making sweeping judgements about the state of the game), as I have said before

[spell_check]

Scoring in 1989 was handicapped by the winter that Melbourne and Sydney had. Some matches in 1989 had the scorelines as thus:

Round 9
Syd 6.7 Melb 6.16
Round 11
Syd 8.9 Carl 12.13
Foot 9.8 StK 7.12
Rich 5.15 Bris 3.8
Fitz 1.8 N.M 6.13
Haw 8.6 Melb 10.9
Geel 12.17 Ess 4.11
Round 12
Ess 7.8 Syd 7.13
Melb 2.8 Geel 13.11
StK 8.6 Haw 10.12
Carl 7.9 N.M 5.10
Round 13
StK 8.8 Melb 10.4
Carl 9.10 W.C 5.11
Ess 3.10 Foot 3.5
Round 14
Ess 9.7 Carl 8.10
Round 16
Foot 6.10 Carl 6.10
Round 18
Foot 3.5 Ess 7.9
Round 19
Fitz 11.6 W.C 5.10

[Rik E Boy]

Nice work spelly. Interesting stats. Scoring appears to be higher in the 80's than than in the 90's overall but Geelong did their bit, at both ends unfortunately!

regards,

REB

[spell_check]

Just to update the scoring this year after tonights match:
Goals: 13.26 Behinds: 12.69 Points: 92.27 Total Scoring Shots: 51.91 Accuracy: 51.10%

[am Bays]

Yep the G was worst it had ever been in winter....

Tony Hall and Andy Collins anyone...

[Benchwarmer]

Hondo

Methinks the TV ratings are high is because people are in need of a laugh ... so they press "7" on their remote to see if their coverage is still as bad as it is

[Benchwarmer]

Spelly

How wet those winters used to be .... mmm, memories!

I remember that at Princes Park one year (either 1989 or 1990), the weather was so bad that Carlton found that marking the goal squares in white chalk was useless as they had so much sand in each goal area. Their solution was to use thick pink ribbon at each end, marking out the 10 yard kickout areas (including the goal line) and pegged them down.

Never before and probably never again!

[FlyingHigh]

Hondo, the reason I said that about 2005 was because from the first time West Coast got a mark on the wing 2 minutes into the game, the Swans flooded straight away and the game went on this way from then on, and I fell asleep watching it during the third quarter. Great ending, no doubt.

True, games now would be better than 20 years ago, and so forth, but it must be remembered that it is only in the last 5-7 years that the AFL have truly got all the best players playing in the one competition.

[Hondo]

Hondo, the reason I said that about 2005 was because from the first time West Coast got a mark on the wing 2 minutes into the game, the Swans flooded straight away and the game went on this way from then on, and I fell asleep watching it during the third quarter. Great ending, no doubt.

True, games now would be better than 20 years ago, and so forth, but it must be remembered that it is only in the last 5-7 years that the AFL have truly got all the best players playing in the one competition.

I enjoyed 2005 more than 2006 TBH - it's just personal opinion tho. I thought both were great games.

It's OK to remember the past fondly but I love the game in 2007 and much as I did in 1987. That's all.

[Roylion]

I agree. Any match in the 80s involving Fitzroy, St Kilda or Melbourne had about an 85% chance of being dull because of those teams' skills.

Fitzroy? Not what I remember and I watched most of Fitzroy's matches back then. I'd argue that in the early and mid 80's that Fitzroy was one of the more highly skilled teams in the competition and played very exciting football in that time, including a day where they scored 34.16.220 in thrashing North by 150 points. They reached the finals in 1981, 1983, 1984 and 1986 (preliminary final).

Paul Roos, Gary Pert, Richard Osborne, Micky Conlan, Garry Wilson, Bernie Quinlan, Matty Rendell, Garry Sidebottom were all exciting players. Quinlan kicked 100 goals in 1983 and 1984 and won a Brownlow in 1981. Other great Fitzroy names of that era include Scott Clayton, Laurie Serafini, Ross Thornton, Leon Harris, Grant Lawrie and Scott McIvor.

[spell_check]

I agree. Any match in the 80s involving Fitzroy, St Kilda or Melbourne had about an 85% chance of being dull because of those teams' skills.

Fitzroy? Not what I remember and I watched most of Fitzroy's matches back then. I'd argue that in the early and mid 80's that Fitzroy was one of the more highly skilled teams in the competition and played very exciting football in that time, including a day where they scored 34.16.220 in thrashing North by 150 points. They reached the finals in 1981, 1983, 1984 and 1986 (preliminary final).

Paul Roos, Gary Pert, Richard Osborne, Micky Conlan, Garry Wilson, Bernie Quinlan, Matty Rendell, Garry Sidebottom were all exciting players. Quinlan kicked 100 goals in 1983 and 1984 and won a Brownlow in 1981. Other great Fitzroy names of that era include Scott Clayton, Laurie Serafini, Ross Thornton, Leon Harris, Grant Lawrie and Scott McIvor.

Yeah, I can only go by the scores and the players who played in each club, but Fitzroy wouldn't have been a dull club, especially between 1981-1986. And what's amazing about that 34.16, was that North Melbourne were in 1st place at that time!

[Benchwarmer]

Fitzroy starting dropping around 1988 onwards ... soon after leaving Collingwood during their nomadic drift from ground to ground. My reference to them was more based on that than the earlier 80s.

I reckon their modern-day prime was at the Junction Oval, where Superboot could dob them from the centre circle. The game plan was to kick it long from the centre bounce and Quinlan had a chance to mark from 30 out most times - one reason for having some very high scores was the size of the Junction Oval.

[smithy]

Geelong for mine have generally always had a very attack minded game plan about them.
The days when they had Brownless, Excell and Ablett..in the same side...they were just great to watch.

[Hondo]

Fitzroy starting dropping around 1988 onwards ... soon after leaving Collingwood during their nomadic drift from ground to ground. My reference to them was more based on that than the earlier 80s.

I reckon their modern-day prime was at the Junction Oval, where Superboot could dob them from the centre circle. The game plan was to kick it long from the centre bounce and Quinlan had a chance to mark from 30 out most times - one reason for having some very high scores was the size of the Junction Oval.

I think REB and I have put Benchwarmer in it here .... in defending modern football we have put the "dull" label on the 80s which according to the DVD were 'electrifying'.

I do remember some big-scoring games - there were great, high scoring games at Sydney in the Edelston days. But I also remember lots of scores similar to 2007 and lots of games that were, frankly, a bit dull. When the top sides played off the scoring was similar to today. We should remember that some of the high scoring was actually symptomatic of severe imbalances between the 12 teams and shouldn't always be remembered as a positive. In the mid 80s attendances were down, TV figures were down and the game was on it's financial knees (in Victoria anyway).

20 or so years on and we have record attendances and TV figures yet I feel like I have to defend our great game while people remember back to the highlight reels and select GF's to make huge positive, generalisations about the 'good old days'. I think we have to be balanced - there are good and bad aspects of every era.

[Benchwarmer]

The game was a financially mess in Victoria and WA in the mid 80s. A far cry from today.

[spell_check]

Did the 80s ever had keepings off during the middle of the match? Tempo footy? Flooding as a tactic with 5 extra numbers back? Every round has its dull matches, but at least they weren't ruined by these tactics.

[heater31]

Did the 80s ever had keepings off during the middle of the match? Tempo footy? Flooding as a tactic with 5 extra numbers back? Every round has its dull matches, but at least they weren't ruined by these tactics.

spot on spelly, today we have dull games with negative tactics, yesteryear we had dull games with positive tactics

[Hondo]

Did the 80s ever had keepings off during the middle of the match? Tempo footy? Flooding as a tactic with 5 extra numbers back? Every round has its dull matches, but at least they weren't ruined by these tactics.

Come on Spelly ... I have seen some terrific games this season most of which have included those tactics to varying levels. Apart from a couple of games such as the Hawthorn/St Kilda shocker I think it's been an entertaining season including and/or despite all the defensive tactics. Hawthorn v Collingwood today is a good case in point.

I still challenge you to dig up a normal minor round game from the VFL in the 80s (not a grand final) and really have a close look. I think you'll be able to pick at least 5 postive changes to go with the changes you hate.