The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

[UK Fan]

Lets be honest, the AFL fans in this state are in no position to claim we're whingers. They have an awesome track record of it:

* I see red finals campaign
* Constant sniping over stadium dividends
* Victorian conspiracy
* Compaints over the SANFL 'leeching' the AFL clubs
* The complaints over 'independence'
* Complaints over not having reserves
* Complaining about AAMI Stadium
* Complaining about the SACA and SMA at Adelaide Oval.
* Complaining about pretty much everything when things don't go their way.

So once again, its ok for them, but woe betide if you return the favour. Then you are nothing but a negative nellie..............

[bennymacca]

What has that got to so with anything in this thread?

And massive overgeneralisations to justify your own negativity aren't really helpful

Fwiw it's not a bad thing to be negative if combined with rationality.

[therisingblues]

A: Everything, according to most AFL-ites, we are whinging just for the sake of it.
B: Generalisations serve when there is a generality, overgeneralisation would be saying something like we don't want the AFL in the SANFL just because we don't like the Crows or Port. (Gee, imagine someone being dick enough to claim that!)
C: Rationality is a good thing. But when we worried that the AFL reserves would be in the SANFL as early as 2013, many laughed us off as being irrational, it'll never happen etc..
So what is rational and who's the judge? Seeing as our fears have come true I think we have exercised better judgment than you so far.
How long do we have to sit back being perceived as rational while our league is whittled away before our eyes?

[therisingblues]

Spoke with a Crows fan, who is recently a Power fan, because they are winning you see…
Anyway, after I told him it was unfair that Port have the advantage of AFL players on their list as well as former league standard Magpies to top up their list, he then told me that the SANFL clubs are currently benefitting from AFL players on loan from Port that the SANFL clubs have no claim to.
I told him that no, all Port players now play for the Magpies, but he said that was only the Crows that have a reserves team and that Port are graciously continuing to loan their players out to SANFL clubs.
I told him he didn't know what he was talking about.
He stormed off!

Now I credit 99% of people who use this forum with more knowledge of the debate than him, but there are many out there with as little knowledge as Mr Crow/Power, passing off their opinions as gospel.
The situation is impossible! When confronted with such stupidity how can we win opinion over?

[Wedgie]

Safooty.net got a mention on the MMM Rush Hour tonight thanks to this issue. Good work Andrew whoever you are!

No worries. Bit disappointed by Roo tho who said the forum was mainly negative towards everything. Also wanted to say about players not necessarily up to SANFL standard getting games for the crows but didn't get the chance.

Roo said the internet as a whole is full of negativity, not this site.
I doubt he'd know how to turn a computer on let alone log onto a web site though.
Someone like Roo would only go off what others say/report. He wouldn't have a genuine clue.

[saintal]

Roo should stick to what he knows best. Chummy interviews with Big Tex, Sloany and Truck etc.

[CUTTERMAN]

Spoke with a Crows fan, who is recently a Power fan, because they are winning you see…
Anyway, after I told him it was unfair that Port have the advantage of AFL players on their list as well as former league standard Magpies to top up their list, he then told me that the SANFL clubs are currently benefitting from AFL players on loan from Port that the SANFL clubs have no claim to.
I told him that no, all Port players now play for the Magpies, but he said that was only the Crows that have a reserves team and that Port are graciously continuing to loan their players out to SANFL clubs.
I told him he didn't know what he was talking about.
He stormed off!

Now I credit 99% of people who use this forum with more knowledge of the debate than him, but there are many out there with as little knowledge as Mr Crow/Power, passing off their opinions as gospel.
The situation is impossible! When confronted with such stupidity how can we win opinion over?

Even less hope of any reasonable discussion concerning this issue when all media is coerced into one bland rhetorical mantra of all things AFL. Not to mention the lemmings that can't think for themselves that feed on it.

[UK Fan]

What has that got to so with anything in this thread?

And massive overgeneralisations to justify your own negativity aren't really helpful

Fwiw it's not a bad thing to be negative if combined with rationality.

To show that AFL fans complaining about any perceived negativity on here is the height of hypocrisy.

Yes, massive overgeneralisations. You are the king of them.

And the weasel word rationality; who determines that? You? Forgive us for not considering you the judge of this debate.

[bennymacca]

I made one deliberate generalisation to make a point about the extreme view.

You obviously haven't read any of my posts on here, as a self confessed "pro-afl" fan I have been one of the only ones willing to debate the issues. But picking holes in an argument is apparently hypocrisy.

And I still don't subscribe to the notion that it has ruined the comp... Yet... Too early to tell. Has been my argument all along. Those that think their fears have been realised and the sanfl is dead, after 2 months of footy, are jumping to conclusions.

Of course the sanfl has changed. For the better? First indications are probably not. Is it dead? Of course not.

[cennals05]

I made one deliberate generalisation to make a point about the extreme view.

You obviously haven't read any of my posts on here, as a self confessed "pro-afl" fan I have been one of the only ones willing to debate the issues. But picking holes in an argument is apparently hypocrisy.

And I still don't subscribe to the notion that it has ruined the comp... Yet... Too early to tell. Has been my argument all along. Those that think their fears have been realised and the sanfl is dead, after 2 months of footy, are jumping to conclusions.

Of course the sanfl has changed. For the better? First indications are probably not. Is it dead? Of course not.

It all depends on what your definition of ruined or dead is. This is the problem. For those of us that only follow SANFL our definition is going to be entirely different to those that follow AFL.

[UK Fan]

I made one deliberate generalisation to make a point about the extreme view.

You obviously haven't read any of my posts on here, as a self confessed "pro-afl" fan I have been one of the only ones willing to debate the issues. But picking holes in an argument is apparently hypocrisy.

And I still don't subscribe to the notion that it has ruined the comp... Yet... Too early to tell. Has been my argument all along. Those that think their fears have been realised and the sanfl is dead, after 2 months of footy, are jumping to conclusions.

Of course the sanfl has changed. For the better? First indications are probably not. Is it dead? Of course not.

All I am doing is showing that any suggestion of neutrality/fence sitting whereas we have vested interests is a load of carp. And that somehow your POV is rational, and ours is NIMBY. Again, carp.

A death does not have to be instant, a slow death is still a death. And to most of us, an SANFL stripped of its integrity, independence and tradition is a living corpse.

[bennymacca]

Are there any Victorians on here that can share first hand experience of how it works in the VFL? There are still some clubs with no afl affiliation correct? As a rule how do they go with regards to support, crowds, success?

[Aerie]

There is so much done to equalise sporting competitions throughout the world (drug testing, salary cap, drafts, handicaps) and what has happened to the SANFL is going the polar opposite to this. No matter which way you look at it, the introduction of two AFL Reserves teams is not fair.

There are positives and negatives and those who see a fair, even competition, as the number one consideration are rightly bemused by what has happened.

From an AFL viewpoint, the consideration of an even, fair competition is outweighed by the need for developing players and for them, currently at least, the best option is to do this in their own backyard both in terms of value for money and strength of competition. They will tell themselves that there is increased exposure to the SANFL. Dittmar said it's been great, then when asked if he'd been to an SANFL game this season, said "no, but have enjoyed watching some games on tv, especially the Clare game".

I am not convinced that the increased exposure to the SANFL via commercial TV is even close to benefiting my club enough to outweigh the negatives that come with the new format. There is no more coverage of my SANFL club than there was before. In fact, I would say there is less. I guess we'd have to wait to see the finances from this years Annual Reports to really know.

There are other ways, including having a weekly SANFL game at Adelaide Oval, that would give the competition prestige and generate interest. The use of social media and the web is more important than paying $1,000,000 to have the game shown on Ch7 - which is essentially the only benefit the AFL clubs have bought (via sponsorship) to the competition.

The Eagles vs Sturt game at Unley Oval, with a crowd of 4000, which was directly up against both Crows and Power games on the same day told me that there is enough interest in the SANFL for it to be viable without the "assistance" of AFL clubs.

What is desperately needed is the SANFL administration to apply the spirit in which 5RPH and LifeFM have to the competition to generate interest and use the capital they should have to make it high quality for the current HD generation.

I think the SANFL would be best to cut ties with Port and the Crows at the end of the season. If Port Magpies win the SANFL premiership this year, it will be an absolute disgrace.

There are other ways to keep relevance for a younger generation of footballers and an alignment between the AFL and SANFL and that is to supply Port and Crows with top up players via Under 20's to use in whatever competition they could go to (preferably AFL Reserves or at least VFL). I believe this could apply nationally with alignment of elite Under 18 sides to all AFL and State League clubs, but that is another matter. Keep Junior Football, Development/Reserves Football and State League Football - which can all still be feeders to the AFL - separate.

For now, I reckon the SANFL bite the bullet and go it alone. The mainstream media, who all seem to be official ambassadors for the Crows (http://www.afc.com.au/the-club/information/ambassadors), will give the SANFL hell, but I'm not convinced it is the mainstream media who will ensure the SANFL survives and prospers anyway.

The SANFL will never be the number one show in town, but it has a niche, and I'd love to see the SANFL and its clubs make every post a winner NOW, while there is still strong enough links to SANFL clubs for the majority of families in South Australia.

[saintal]

Great post Aerie. Had a chuckle at the ambassadors list, the 'whos who' of Adelaide radio.

On the topic of media coverage, I've noticed in recent weeks that the SANFL content on theadvertiser.com has been severely lacking. Very few game recaps are now posted online. And yet they want people to play for this 'service'? Odd.

But hey, at least I can pin a mo of my choice on big Tex.

[tipper]

completely agree aerie. my fear is that the sanfl will collectively leave it too long to try to go it alone. if they stood up to the afl at the end of last season, called the crows bluff and didnt allow them entry to our league we at least had a chance of standing on our own two feet. the longer they leave it, the weaker the competition becomes (which we are already beginning to see with the novelty quickly wearing off the reserves sides) to the point where we just cant detatch ourselves.

given time the afl will eventually start their own reserves league, and the crows and power will happily run off to join that as its "best for our players development" and still wont give a stuff about what they are leaving behind. by then it will be too late. last season we were in a position of power, they wanted to join us, yet we caved in. in future, after the league is weakened, and we dont have any bargaining power, what will be left when they go?

[cracka]

A couple of great posts there, but I think they are wasted on here. More of you need to ring the radio stations & get these opinions out there if you truly want it changed.

[Booney]

A couple of great posts there, but I think they are wasted on here.
More of you need to ring the radio stations & get these opinions out there if you truly want it changed.

Here it is....call me defeatist, a cynic, whatever you like, people power used to have clout, now the power of the dollar over rides anything else. The powers that be didn't listen in the first instance, they certainly aren't going to now.

[bennymacca]

Aerie shows how decent arguments are constructed. Great post. Agree with most of it too

[cennals05]

Rowey just said on FIVEaa that the reserves isn't working for the Crows and they would be better off going back to their original SANFL teams.

[heater31]

Rowey just said on FIVEaa that the reserves isn't working for the Crows and they would be better off going back to their original SANFL teams.

Bet he gets hauled in to the station GM's office and given a roasting for that comment