SANFL MRP News & Discussions

[Wedgie]

For god's sake stop quoting people who can't quote!!!!

[Booney]

Reportable yes but anyone would think he stood there and king hit him.

He got a run up, left the ground and raised an elbow/forearm to a blokes head who was eyes on the ball.

Undeniably worse than a king hit, in football terms and can simply not be defended or condoned.

[johntheclaret]

Both offences are on the Recovery Session on YouTube. Repeated several times and in slow motion

[Ted E Bear]

Certainly not worse than a king hit

[Booney]

Certainly not worse than a king hit

Splitting hairs there.

[topsywaldron]

The sad irony in all of this is that I reckon it was Symes who had the wisdom to turn Ainger over to stop him following his tongue when he was lying on the ground after being collected by Collier.

Just out of idle curiosity if Ainger's jaw had been broken by Collier would the two incidents be able to be compared? Collier did leave the ground when he bumped into Ainger. Intent probably wasn't there though.

[Dogwatcher]

I'll be perceived as biased. But I don't either Collier or Ainger was aware they were coming at each other. Both had eyes on the ball.

[JK]

I'll be perceived as biased. But I don't either Collier or Ainger was aware they were coming at each other. Both had eyes on the ball.

I agree with you. Would need to see the footage again, but from memory I didn't think there was impact to the head in that collision either. So if Ainger had been concussed it would have come purely from impact with the ground, via a fair clash of bodies.

[topsywaldron]

I'll be perceived as biased. But I don't either Collier or Ainger was aware they were coming at each other. Both had eyes on the ball.

Cool, just wondering.

Grocke's certainly, to the naked eye anyway, looked far worse.

[Booney]

The sad irony in all of this is that I reckon it was Symes who had the wisdom to turn Ainger over to stop him following his tongue when he was lying on the ground after being collected by Collier.

Just out of idle curiosity if Ainger's jaw had been broken by Collier would the two incidents be able to be compared? Collier did leave the ground when he bumped into Ainger. Intent probably wasn't there though.

As a matter of fact, leaving him on his side may have been better as Symes turned him on his back, increasing the likely hood of swallowing his tongue and players should err on the side of caution as any possible neck injury could be worsened by simply flipping a bloke over because you think it was the best idea.

Having said that, any player who shows immediate care for a fellow or opposition player who has been felled is a pretty decent chap in my books.

[topsywaldron]

The ironies just pile up.

[whufc]

The sad irony in all of this is that I reckon it was Symes who had the wisdom to turn Ainger over to stop him following his tongue when he was lying on the ground after being collected by Collier.

Just out of idle curiosity if Ainger's jaw had been broken by Collier would the two incidents be able to be compared? Collier did leave the ground when he bumped into Ainger. Intent probably wasn't there though.

As a matter of fact, leaving him on his side may have been better as Symes turned him on his back, increasing the likely hood of swallowing his tongue and players should err on the side of caution as any possible neck injury could be worsened by simply flipping a bloke over because you think it was the best idea.

Having said that, any player who shows immediate care for a fellow or opposition player who has been felled is a pretty decent chap in my books.

And that's why all AFL footballers are now spending alot of time learning senior first aid per requested by their club.

[Wedgie]

The sad irony in all of this is that I reckon it was Symes who had the wisdom to turn Ainger over to stop him following his tongue when he was lying on the ground after being collected by Collier.

Just out of idle curiosity if Ainger's jaw had been broken by Collier would the two incidents be able to be compared? Collier did leave the ground when he bumped into Ainger. Intent probably wasn't there though.

As a matter of fact, leaving him on his side may have been better as Symes turned him on his back, increasing the likely hood of swallowing his tongue and players should err on the side of caution as any possible neck injury could be worsened by simply flipping a bloke over because you think it was the best idea.

Having said that, any player who shows immediate care for a fellow or opposition player who has been felled is a pretty decent chap in my books.

I'd flip them over to check for breathing first before placing them in the recovery position which is easiest if they're on their back and tilting their head backwards.
Once I ascertained they were breathing and hadn't swallowed their tongue I'd move them to their side.
And if they're not breathing commence CPR whilst on their back.

This soccer player did the same as Symes initial movement and possibly saved his opponents life: http://elitedaily.com/sports/ukrainian-soccer-player-saves-opponents-life-after-he-gets-knocked-out-and-swallows-tongue-video/

[whufc]

You can check the breathing from the recovery position and if you had moved Ainger to the side and he had a spinal injury you have made the injury worse which means you then can become liable.

On a victim who has physically exerted themself generally breathe will be pretty easy to detect


In a sitaution where there could be a suspicion of a spinal injury you should protect the spine and do all the observations from that position until you can place a neck brace and spinal board on the person. If you do detect no breathe then that becomes the priority and the spinal becomes secondaryt

[woodublieve12]

Looked very bad... There was no need to even make contact... Should eb dealt with very harshly. I'd say 6-8 would suffice

[SimonH]

You can check the breathing from the recovery position and if you had moved Ainger to the side and he had a spinal injury you have made the injury worse which means you then can become liable.

On a victim who has physically exerted themself generally breathe will be pretty easy to detect

In a sitaution where there could be a suspicion of a spinal injury you should protect the spine and do all the observations from that position until you can place a neck brace and spinal board on the person. If you do detect no breathe then that becomes the priority and the spinal becomes secondaryt

Yep, even though Symes' intention was totally praiseworthy, flipping a prostate player quickly onto their back may be the right thing to do in the majority of cases, but in 1% it could be absolutely disastrous to the neck/spinal cord. And you've imposed a duty of care on yourself by getting involved. (I know, seems silly on one view that someone standing 5 metres away from a severely injured person, doing nothing to help them, incurs no liability, and a good Samaritan who tries to help out can be liable—but that's the way things are.) Bend down and check breath, if you've got a suspicion they may not be breathing. Only flip/get involved in moving the tongue if you can't hear a breath.

Possibly a different story if the assisting player has a first aid certificate (or is Dr Tim Webber), but otherwise: by all means show concern for injured opponents and help out where there is obviously no risk in doing so. However, you're not a trained medical professional, and there are people who are, only seconds away.

[Wedgie]

Despite a bit of confusion the only relevent issue here in regard to the hit a few seconds later was the intent and there was no doubting Syme's intent was to help the Eagles player which is commendable.Tragic really that probably the nicest and most caring player on the field was hit like he was.

I've been quite torn in the issue and have regarded Adam Grocke as a friend, he's a part of a lovely family that does an amazing amount of work for charity. But there is no doubting he tries to influence himself on a game at times with physical strength. I think Adam would be struggling with this and I'd think he would have already tried to contact Brad to express his regret, no excuse I know but he's not a bad person.

[SimonH]

Sure, because of the severity of the head-high hit he should probably go for quite a few, but having just viewed the footage, some of the rhetoric here is a bit excessive.

It was clearly a case of 2 blokes running for the same mark from different directions, one realises that he's going to come 2nd and thinks 'I'm at least going to make him earn it' and turns his body to collide with the marking player. Happens pretty much every game. He got it badly wrong by hanging his elbow out to dry, in circumstances where his body was not going through the line of Symes' body, and he knew that both he and his opponent had momentum up and were coming from opposite directions. His height also contributed to the hit being high. In addition, it was not late (Symes not only hadn't completed the mark before being knocked out, the ball had barely touched his hands), which is in some ways better and in some ways worse (Grocke could and should have spoiled). So it's reckless.

But if you look at the direction that Grocke's head is facing when he first appears on camera while the ball's in flight (towards the ball, not Symes), there is no case that he callously lined Symes up from a distance.

[areaman]

I think Adam would be struggling with this and I'd think he would have already tried to contact Brad to express his regret, no excuse I know but he's not a bad person.

I'm probably jumping the gun here but I wonder what Adam may decide to do if he gets a really long ban. After missing all of last year and then a big slice of 2014 would he decide to call it a day?

[Aerie]

Despite a bit of confusion the only relevent issue here in regard to the hit a few seconds later was the intent and there was no doubting Syme's intent was to help the Eagles player which is commendable.Tragic really that probably the nicest and most caring player on the field was hit like he was.

I've been quite torn in the issue and have regarded Adam Grocke as a friend, he's a part of a lovely family that does an amazing amount of work for charity. But there is no doubting he tries to influence himself on a game at times with physical strength. I think Adam would be struggling with this and I'd think he would have already tried to contact Brad to express his regret, no excuse I know but he's not a bad person.

Well said. This was one action that anyone at the Eagles or Grocke himself (I'd imagine) would be ashamed of. It wasn't in the spirit of the game and he deserves a lengthy suspension (6-8 weeks?).

I don't think you can draw out this one action to reflect what he would be like on the other side of the white line, or even what he is like or has been like as a footballer for his whole career. He has been very good and once he's served his time on the sidelines, he can be very good again. In general, he influences the game with physical strength in a fair manner. This time he didn't because he was seething from what happened to a team mate minutes earlier, and that is no excuse neither, just what happened.

Thankfully Symes doesn't have facial fractures or a broken jaw to go with his concussion and hopefully Symes will have the option to continue to play if he wants to.

The Eagles as a football club probably need to reflect a little on the reputation they're gathering. Kane's hit on Gallagher in 2012 was equally disturbing and Parry stepped over the line a couple of times too often. Play hard by all means, that is a must, but play fair.