Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

[Psyber]

In passing, I note recent reports that people are coming in on NZ passports are now demanding earlier access to social benefits than the current law allows.
The report suggested people from the Polynesian island communities are obtaining easy NZ passports and then coming on to Oz.
On the surface it may be hard to see them as refugees from oppressive regimes, but then the islands are slowly sinking as ocean levels rise.

What are you feelings on this one guys?

[bennymacca]

to me that is something we should most definitely be cracking down on. Im all for new zealanders come across if they want to live and work but i would much rather be giving a refugee those social benefits than someone from NZ.

[bennymacca]

i think that can be extended to cracking down on any long term welfare recipients. we need to find ways to get those people into jobs, or do something about it when they are actively not trying to get into work

[Psyber]

i think that can be extended to cracking down on any long term welfare recipients. we need to find ways to get those people into jobs, or do something about it when they are actively not trying to get into work

Work for the dole?

I've sometimes wondered whether it would help if people had to do say 3 or 4 days work for the public good - like for charities or local councils - to get the dole, but to encourage the habit of working could be allowed to keep any extra they picked up working on other days - up to reasonable limit, and perhaps for a limited time?

[Mr Beefy]

i think that can be extended to cracking down on any long term welfare recipients. we need to find ways to get those people into jobs, or do something about it when they are actively not trying to get into work

Send them to NZ?

[bennymacca]

i think that can be extended to cracking down on any long term welfare recipients. we need to find ways to get those people into jobs, or do something about it when they are actively not trying to get into work

Work for the dole?

I've sometimes wondered whether it would help if people had to do say 3 or 4 days work for the public good - like for charities or local councils - to get the dole, but to encourage the habit of working could be allowed to keep any extra they picked up working on other days - up to reasonable limit, and perhaps for a limited time?

its an interesting idea. i think working for the dole is tough because they kinda feel like the are working for nothing, in the sense that if they can get out of it somehow they can still get their money.

i do like the idea of letting them keep their benefits if they say pick up a couple of days work but it is not a consistent thing. might be tough to police though, could get people working full time cash in hand, but putting 1 day a week on the books and claiming the dole

[bulldogproud2]

In passing, I note recent reports that people are coming in on NZ passports are now demanding earlier access to social benefits than the current law allows.
The report suggested people from the Polynesian island communities are obtaining easy NZ passports and then coming on to Oz.
On the surface it may be hard to see them as refugees from oppressive regimes, but then the islands are slowly sinking as ocean levels rise.

What are you feelings on this one guys?

Having just been to New Zealand though, my understanding is that New Zealanders who come to Australia are denied the rights that people who come from other countries receive. Whilst people from all other countries can eventually receive social welfare benefits, those who emigrate from New Zealand never can. On the other hand, Australians who emigrate to New Zealand are still eligible for social welfare benefits from the moment they arrive!! Seems very unfair to me on our New Zealand cousins.

Cheers

[bulldogproud2]

i think that can be extended to cracking down on any long term welfare recipients. we need to find ways to get those people into jobs, or do something about it when they are actively not trying to get into work

Work for the dole?

I've sometimes wondered whether it would help if people had to do say 3 or 4 days work for the public good - like for charities or local councils - to get the dole, but to encourage the habit of working could be allowed to keep any extra they picked up working on other days - up to reasonable limit, and perhaps for a limited time?

its an interesting idea. i think working for the dole is tough because they kinda feel like the are working for nothing, in the sense that if they can get out of it somehow they can still get their money.

i do like the idea of letting them keep their benefits if they say pick up a couple of days work but it is not a consistent thing. might be tough to police though, could get people working full time cash in hand, but putting 1 day a week on the books and claiming the dole

I don't think the right term should be 'cracking down' on long term welfare recipients. A large amount of these people would love to receive work if there was any available to them. Many long term welfare recipients have either physical or mental health issues that make it hard for them to be employable. Rather than 'cracking down' on these, we need to assist them to overcome their problems and develop skills that can help them become suitable for the job market. Work for the dole can be fine if the work is tailored towards something that could increase further job prospects. I also like the idea that those who are mature (e.g. 55 and above) are able to do voluntary work rather than 'work for the dole' and receive benefits.
Cheers

[bulldogproud2]

In passing, I note recent reports that people are coming in on NZ passports are now demanding earlier access to social benefits than the current law allows.
The report suggested people from the Polynesian island communities are obtaining easy NZ passports and then coming on to Oz.
On the surface it may be hard to see them as refugees from oppressive regimes, but then the islands are slowly sinking as ocean levels rise.

What are you feelings on this one guys?

It won't work as they won't be able to receive social welfare benefits if they are from New Zealand. I think the report must have meant that New Zealanders are actually trying to gain Polynesian passports as this would open them up to receiving benefits.

Cheers

[bennymacca]

I don't think the right term should be 'cracking down' on long term welfare recipients. A large amount of these people would love to receive work if there was any available to them. Many long term welfare recipients have either physical or mental health issues that make it hard for them to be employable. Rather than 'cracking down' on these, we need to assist them to overcome their problems and develop skills that can help them become suitable for the job market. Work for the dole can be fine if the work is tailored towards something that could increase further job prospects. I also like the idea that those who are mature (e.g. 55 and above) are able to do voluntary work rather than 'work for the dole' and receive benefits.
Cheers

i was drawing a distinction between dole recipients and disability pension recipients, which i think are two very different things, but are often lumped into the same basket. and i wholeheartedly agree with you, the goal should be to get everyone back into meaningful work. often people would love to work for the same money as they get on the dole.

i think my original statement was clouded by the report that i read recently about people being on the dole for 20 years, which is quite obviously not right.

[bulldogproud2]

Sorry, Bennymacca, I should have realised that you were drawing a distinction as I have pretty much agreed with all you have expressed on here. You seem to have a very empathetic and compassionate nature, a wonderful thing to possess.
Cheers

[shoe boy]

What sort of country are we becoming!
Now Morrison with General at war Abbot will no longer have weekly (last one was Dec 20) updates of "stop the boats" he will now send statements to the press!!!

[bennymacca]

that is ridiculous. makes me angry.

we, as a nation, elected these people to represent us, so we have a right to this information, and a right to ask questions of the minister in charge.

it seems to be extremely blatant, in that they arent actually stopping any boats, they are just trying to bury it in the news cycle so that it is not a major topic anymore. out of sight out of mind. that is absolutely disgraceful.

[tigerpie]

that is ridiculous. makes me angry.

we, as a nation, elected these people to represent us, so we have a right to this information, and a right to ask questions of the minister in charge.

it seems to be extremely blatant, in that they arent actually stopping any boats, they are just trying to bury it in the news cycle so that it is not a major topic anymore. out of sight out of mind. that is absolutely disgraceful.

I hope the stupid people who voted for this amatuer bunch are happy with their choice.
I'm hoping the media catch them cold, bullshitting about certain events, and bring them to order.

[bulldogproud2]

At least the Army have come out and stated that it is not the policy that has reduced the number of boat arrivals but the fact it is typhoon season at the moment. Numbers are down at this time every year.
Cheers

[Psyber]

In passing, I note recent reports that people are coming in on NZ passports are now demanding earlier access to social benefits than the current law allows.
The report suggested people from the Polynesian island communities are obtaining easy NZ passports and then coming on to Oz.
On the surface it may be hard to see them as refugees from oppressive regimes, but then the islands are slowly sinking as ocean levels rise.
What are you feelings on this one guys?

It won't work as they won't be able to receive social welfare benefits if they are from New Zealand. I think the report must have meant that New Zealanders are actually trying to gain Polynesian passports as this would open them up to receiving benefits.
Cheers

That's not what the article said.
What it said was that Australians in NZ get social benefits much sooner than NZ people in Australia and the New Zealanders here think it is unfair and are campaigning for equality. Then it added the bit about Polynesian islanders getting NZ passports easily, and using them to enter Oz.

My solution is that neither country pay social benefits to foreign citizens at all.

[bennymacca]

there is a bilateral agreement with regards to NZ citizens in Aus that doesnt apply to other countries.

and the reason for the difference is that most of the migration is flowing in one direction, i think it is something like half a million New zealanders in Aus. going to try and find the actual numbers.

here is some info on the visa requirements etc
http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/17nz.htm

Edit: wiki lists 650k people in australia that are NZ citizens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealander_Australian

[bennymacca]

there is no way that they would get their position wrong. very possibly they could stray into indonesian waters by a few miles if they forget to look at their charts, but its pretty clear thats not what they are talking about here.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-17/a ... on/5204746

[shoe boy]

Morrison on our relationship with Indonesia on "stop the boats". Quote "we have an honest open relationship and open communications". NOW THIS WAS TODAY!!!

[Gozu]

Indonesian President says he felt betrayed by Tony Abbott:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/20844442/sby ... iend-tony/

Less than 3 years to go until we can get rid of this clown.