NORTH OBJECT TO POKIES APPLICATION

[stan]

SOOOOOORRRRRRRRRYYYYYYY

he he I forgive you. Just remember one is black and white where the other is red!

Same horse different jockey.

[BM]

Fair enough Drebin. Why would Fahey object when every second or third week he gets the Hampstead packed out for the roosters presentations (which i have attended once or twice)? I just think that if it is correct that North are objecting to the pokies at Fosters Rd it seems a tad hypocritical and to trott out social impact is rich. Co-operative world and all that. Having said that the powers at be at Cockland are to be comended on the way the place has turned around financially in a short period of time.They have come a long way since i played there.

[drebin]

I think North is just tougher now having gone through bad times and established the most financial base in the SANFL in terms of income so they want to protect it - can you blame them?

[ca]

I can see both sides of things, I agree that is does seem a bit hypocritical from an outsiders prospective for North to be objecting at the same time I can't blame them for wanting to protect their investment. I think it really comes down to if you are North supporter or not as to where you sit on this one. No real right answer.

[Ronnie]

We can probably all agree at least that North aren't acting illegally in this instance, they are acting within the legislation.
In the overall context unless they are onto something significant then there is nothing they can do to stop the venue opening anyway, much as they might delay it.
interesting debate though

[drebin]

You hit the nail on the head ronnie - good post. although i see the big joint enterprise pokies parlour down at Morphett Vale has been given the RED light on the grounds of social impact so there is hope!

[blublurag]

For what it's worth, the Adelaide City pokie venture will be a new Club One venue. Club One is the result of recent legislative changes to the Gaming Act to enable the Club movement to establish profitable pokie venues. It enables struggling clubs (possibly Gaza and Pooraka) to have their gaming licences moved to the Club One venue, have them managed professionally by the Club One venue (set up by Clubs SA, the AHA for Clubs), and receive a return based on the number of licences they have vested and the performance of the venue. Not only is the income from the Club One venue dished back to Clubs with lincences vested, it also goes back to Clubs that do not have gaming licences. I am led to belive the split of profits is 33% reinvesting in the venue (pay loans, game changes etc.), 33% to the vesting clubs and 33% to other clubs.

This is an important furture direction for Clubs and North's objection, along with other hotels, is disappointing. They are not concerned with social impact, it is a joke. This set up could be the saviour that Clubs such as Pooraka need. And remember Pooraka has a proud history and has produced some very successful footballers over the years, Craig Bradley and Alan Didak to name a couple.

The SANFL and AFL want footballers developed but seem to not want to help out those Clubs that do just that. Disappointing to say the least.

[Wedgie]

Good point about letting people know its ClubOne (here after known as ClubNone) involved too blub and not a sporting club in a solo venture.
ClubNone on the surface appear to be another money making venture by Pokies Barons and there is a lot of opposition to these ventures in the community, they're certainly not in it to assit the community, that's been proven.
Its no coincidence that a ClubNone venture won't pop up between a couple of hotels.
Let's face it, if they were fair dinkum about assisting sporting clubs then moving into the vicinity of another one would be the last thing they'd do.
Very transparent and obvious IMHO.
As North have got screwed over big time by the Pokie Barons previously its another edge to the sword that we can make their life a bit more difficult in their quest to be billionaires.
Nice to have the boot on the other foot this time.

Also good to see the first ClubNone venture at Morphett Vale got given the arse, lets hope these barons don't find more ways of fattening their overfull wallets. Hopefully all their ventures go the same way.

[redandblack]

Leave the Pokie Barons alone.

Smacks of tall poppy syndrome to me

[Wedgie]

Leave the Pokie Barons alone.

Smacks of tall poppy syndrome to me

he he, lmao@r&b

[blublurag]

The Morphett Vale venture was not Club One. It was, as you say Wedgie, some pokies barons cashing in on Clubs. I agree, it is good they didn't get the go ahead.

Club One is a different issue, no individual is making money themselves. It is Clubs that are benefitting. Clubs with poorly performing pokies and Clubs with no pokies.

There is protection from over the top management fees. These are controlled by the Liquor and Gambling Commissioner.

I believe Clubs SA helped the Roosters Club get moved to Sizzler and then with all the problems they had. It is time North repaid that just a little.

There is a large new housing estate starting in Northgate (3000 dwellings I think). Surely that means there is enough to go around. I would also expect that Club One will target the Pub patrons rather than existing Club patrons.

[Wedgie]

Thanks for the clarification blublurag, with articles like this one on the ABC and similar in the Advertiser mentioning ClubOne with the Morphett Vale pokies parlour you can understand how I was under the impression I was:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200508/s1437992.htm
Similar article in the Advertiser the same day too saying it was ClubOne.
I'm assuming things must have changed which weren't reported on.

Fair enough to say I'd assume the venture that was rejected at MV would be similar as the group at Oakden, if that's the case a similar outcome in it being rejected should happen, well lets hope so. 31 objections were received for the Morphett Vale venture, if its similar out North I doubt one objection is going to make much difference. I'll be rallying North to object to the new venture as would I hope all North fans would.

Id be pretty confident that under the social impact law locating 40 pokies under the same roof as opposed to just moving them from one place to another it will not be deemed a legal venture anyway. Let's hope the loophole in legislation gets fixed too so in the future groups won't even consider this.

Let's just say I'll be on the same side as the church groups that oppose them as would I be if any SANFL club's income revenue was threatened, praise the Lord!!

[Ronnie]

Wedgie, Onkaparinga Council had their own reasons for objecting to the proposed Morphett Vale set up. Can't draw a great deal from that when it comes to the Oakden move.
As has been explained, The Oakden set up is a very different one anyway from a group of pokie barons trying to cash in down south.

[Wedgie]

Wedgie, Onkaparinga Council had their own reasons for objecting to the proposed Morphett Vale set up. Can't draw a great deal from that when it comes to the Oakden move.
As has been explained, The Oakden set up is a very different one anyway from a group of pokie barons trying to cash in down south.

Onkaparinga Council heard 31 objections and made their decision from there.
There wasn't 1 objection from the council, there was 31 objection from various groups.
If it has been explained how different the Oakden setup is I must have missed it.
I honestly can't see how legally these operations could go ahead under the social impact law when scattered pokies operations with low turnover form to create a mini-casino (as the media label it).
A great deal can be drawn from the Morphett Vale proposal IMHO.

Also, can I assume that yourself and blublurag might have vested interests here as the only posts you've made on the SANFL board are in regard to this matter?

[Ronnie]

No Wedgie, my vested interests in sport amount to membership of an SANFL club and a Golf Club.
With due respects, if i did have a vested interest in this site getting up and running, I don't think I would bother making posts on this web site. As nice as it is, I could think of better ways of influencing public opinion.

[Wedgie]

Cheers ronnie, I was only kidding since the , naughty of me, I apologise.

Weird comment that if you did have vested interest you wouldn't make a post promoting the cause but as you dont you have? Each to their own though!

I do thank you guys for making me more aware of this proposed Pokies Palace at Oakden, the more I look into the more I don't like it.
I've started to set the wheels in motion to see how I can help stop this mini-casino from going ahead.
I implore on all social minded people like myself to do the same.
Hopefully we'll be able to organise a similar amount of objections to this site as what the Morphett Vale site got.

[Ronnie]

just an exchange of opinions Wedgie, i'm not here to promote anything. Nothing strange in that.
I actually don't personally like pokie machines, a small bit of me likes the West Australian govt for standing firm in the face of AHA pressure for their introduction over there. Given the apparent social problems me thinks they are better off without them.
But at the same time for me I know my SANFL footy club will be dead in 2-3 years if their pokie venue doesn't succeed. They are a huge part of why every club in the local league will hopefully survive and put resources back into their development areas.
I would love to see footy clubs survive through their traditional sources of footy income like sponsorship and membership, but, as crucial as they still are, they aren't enough any more.
But can i fully embrace the machines, no way known.

[stan]

just an exchange of opinions Wedgie, i'm not here to promote anything. Nothing strange in that.
I actually don't personally like pokie machines, a small bit of me likes the West Australian govt for standing firm in the face of AHA pressure for their introduction over there. Given the apparent social problems me thinks they are better off without them.
But at the same time for me I know my SANFL footy club will be dead in 2-3 years if their pokie venue doesn't succeed. They are a huge part of why every club in the local league will hopefully survive and put resources back into their development areas.
I would love to see footy clubs survive through their traditional sources of footy income like sponsorship and membership, but, as crucial as they still are, they aren't enough any more.
But can i fully embrace the machines, no way known.

Thats a pretty good post Ronnie. I can see what your saying about pokies, probably better to have that money going into a football club that actually does something for the community than into the pocket of some Hotel Owner.

[blublurag]

I don't have a vested interest Wedgie in the setup at Oakden, but do in trying to see Clubs SA assist Clubs that are really struggling. A lot of the traditional revenue streams have gone at Clubs and it looks like the only way to raise money is with the bloody pokies. Sad but true. Some points...

- Sponsorship revenue has dried up substantially since the Crows and Power sucked it dry in this state. Also, when you do get a sponsor, people in today's society don't think where to spend their money before they do it. They don't support small business anymore i.e. they buy the milk from the servo rather than from the local deli. Next thing you know the deli is shut and Woolworths own the servo. Sponsors don't get any return on their investment anymore. And it is an investment these days, not a donation.

- Pokies in pubs have lured people away from Clubs. The partner at home is happy to go to the pokies pub rather than sit at home whilst the other half is down the local Club. Also, remember those cheap meals, people changed their habits for them too. Now where have the cheap meals gone?

- AFL footy used to be predominantly on the telly, and people used to watch the games at their Club. Now a lot of games are on Foxtel. They go to the pub to watch it, or stay home (more money sucked out of the household budget). It cost upwards of $12,000 to put Fox Footy in a small club. Ridiculous. The AFL, when negotiating 780 million dollar broadcast rights contracts, should demand that all aussie rules football clubs must have access to Fox Footy (at a resonable price or even for free).

- Extended shopping hours (Sunday and Sat Arvo) have meant that up and coming kids are now working at Coles and Woolworths rather than running around on an oval kicking a footy.

- Drink driving laws and excessive price hikes (excise increases) have meant that people aren't drinking and revenue from bars is greatly reduced. Don't disagree with drink driving limits (although it should be 08 rather than the 05 that was introduced to get a federal governement kickback).

- Law changes have meant that volunteers have had to be replaced by paid staff. No volunteer wants their good name tarnished because they are expected to enforce stupid barring orders and smoking bans (ban it or don't ban it) that are practically impossible to police.

I was advised last night that there is to 7000 (not 3000) allotments being developed in Northgate. When these people move in you won't be able to get through the door at Grand North or any other place for that matter. They need another venue.

As far as moving in on Grand North's turf, I don't believe the Northgate Community Club (Gepps Cross) objected to Grand North's application when it was quite evident Grand North were doing just that to them.

[Wedgie]

As far as moving in on Grand North's turf, I don't believe the Northgate Community Club (Gepps Cross) objected to Grand North's application when it was quite evident Grand North were doing just that to them.

Christ, there's yet another pokies venue I wasn't aware of out there! Definately flooded, thanks for the info, I'm going to vehemently protest any more pokies in the area.
I do thank you for continuing to open up my eyes to this, already shot off some emails in the last couple of days to see what I can do to help.
Already found that there's many opponents of the new proposal only making North's objections insignficant but hopefully they'll progress as will I.
I'll pass on the info I get and how we can all help stop this new venue opening as soon as I get word.

Cheers blu.