NBA

[Dissident]

I admire LeBron. Maybe it's the move.. maybe it's other things, I don't know. I just don't consider him in my favourites.

Huge Chris Paul fan. and I love Durant's stroke.

[Grahaml]

Are we talking about style points or effect? Seems most of the talk of why Jordan seems to be better is getting towards how he did it rather than what he did. If anything, as Jordan got better he got less interesting compared to what he would do in his early days. That pull up jumper was so devastating in conjunction with the odd drive right by the defender to earn that space that he relied on it more and more.

In terms of the story of the homeless guy Jordan was actually right in that account. Most social workers are required to sign a contract that forbids them to give money and instead encourage them to go to a centre to get help. It seems cruel, but it's what they recommend is best for the homeless person in question.

And those stories are ones that came out later on. At the time they weren't widely spoken about. Just like Woods was known by a lot of people to have been up to no good, at the time it wasn't common knowledge. What is known now shouldn't be confused with what was known then.

In my thinking, Jordan's only real competition for the title of greatest ever is only challenged by Robertson and Chamberlain. The next group I think comprises Bird, Johnson and Kareem among others. If LeBron were to vanish today, I think he'd be remembered behind those guys in the Malone, Duncan, Shaq category. LeBron though does have in all likelihood the better part of a decade to add to his standings though.

[Gozu]

In terms of the story of the homeless guy Jordan was actually right in that account. Most social workers are required to sign a contract that forbids them to give money and instead encourage them to go to a centre to get help. It seems cruel, but it's what they recommend is best for the homeless person in question.

And those stories are ones that came out later on. At the time they weren't widely spoken about. Just like Woods was known by a lot of people to have been up to no good, at the time it wasn't common knowledge. What is known now shouldn't be confused with what was known then.

Whilst I'm not interested in discussing Jordan's basketball ability with you (he's the GOAT by a healthy margin):

(a) Barkley was not a social worker. It was a disgusting thing to do by Jordan to try and stop him giving a few bucks to a homeless guy even more so due to the almost complete lack of welfare in such a wealthy country like the US. Thankfully Barkley at least had some sort of social conscience and empathy towards his fellow human beings less fortunate than him unlike Jordan.

(b) No they didn't all come out later on. If I some guy in Australia knew about his gambling binges, arrogant attitude towards teammates and rumours of infidelity on the road through the media during his playing days than logically it was common knowledge in the US too.

[Jim05]

Shaq has announced his retirement.
Well done on a great career.

[Lance's brother]

All good points.

1. The argument isn't about if he's better now, it's how much he might be better, in the future.
2. You can compare them. You can compare anyone you want. It's called a comparison.
3. If you were building an athlete in general, you would make him like LeBron!

Fact of the matter is, in my opinion Howard and James rely more on their physical attributes than anyone else in the upper echelon of players.

Jordan was, what 27+ when he won his first ring (from the article I think). Kobe had 3 at 23 or something.

As the article says, rings don't choose players.

Who would you rather have, Steve Kerr and Robert Horry, or Charles Barkley and Karl Malone?

Kobe only had 3 at 23 because he was fortunate enough to be playing alongside prime Shaq.

And Shaquille was fortunate enough to play alongside Kobe. They don't win without each other.

Maybe, but Shaq was the Finals MVP every year they won and the season Kobe tried to be the man they failed.

[Dissident]

That's a flawed way of looking at it IMO

[Grahaml]

This is why debate on a player's greatness can't really be judged on how many championships they won. I can't remember the last time a team won through the dominance of one player without some very handy offsiders with them. Without Pippen, Jordan wouldn't have won any championships. Just like LeBron won't suddenly become a better player if he wins it all this season. Just like Malone wouldn't have become a better player had the Lakers won in his final year.

Sad but inevitable news on Shaq. On song probably dominated a game more than anyone else in recent memory. Injuries and those hard fouls took their toll on him and he had slowed down a lot by the end. Watch even 2006 finals matches and compare to now and it's obvious he's a lot slower than he was. Just imagine if he'd stayed healthy and could shoot free throws though.

[no_remorse28]

Why not change the tune and celebrate Shaq's career on here for a bit. announced his retirement today. My all time favorite player to watch, especially during the 3peat were his numbers and domination were just nasty, His rap making fun of Vlad Divac, and then the one of Kobe. this Guy brought it all to the Table and even though his domination diminished, he was still worth watching in games for the slight glimpses he would give of what he once was.

He is a legend by every measurable standard the game has to offer and is considered the most dominant center of modern basketball and the man who changed the position with his style of play. Sad day in the NBA lets hope he stays involved in some capacity, because the great man was priceless

[Dissident]

Sad day!

I wasn't the biggest Shaq fan early on, but I don't think I understood his talent properly.
The way he talked game to reporters was legendary - definitely one of a kind.

He's probably been "retiring" for a while now - but he'll be sorely missed!

[no_remorse28]

Sad day!

I wasn't the biggest Shaq fan early on, but I don't think I understood his talent properly.
The way he talked game to reporters was legendary - definitely one of a kind.

He's probably been "retiring" for a while now - but he'll be sorely missed!

Lets just hope he doesn't resurrect his Acting career. But as it has been written on NBA.com it was a shaqtacular career

[the big bang]

i'm actually pretty upset to see shaq go out this way, injury riddled and well below his best.

he's the reason i started supporting the Lakers, to the point where i wore number 34 in my junior basketball days until he left the Lakers.

a sad day for the NBA. every single media outlet would be chasing him right now, as his charisma and humour IMO, has never been surpassed by any other NBA Legend.

[no_remorse28]

i'm actually pretty upset to see shaq go out this way, injury riddled and well below his best.

he's the reason i started supporting the Lakers, to the point where i wore number 34 in my junior basketball days until he left the Lakers.

a sad day for the NBA. every single media outlet would be chasing him right now, as his charisma and humour IMO, has never been surpassed by any other NBA Legend.

Would make a great combo with Sir Charles on TNT overtime

[Freo HeaveHo]

An unstoppable force in his prime .... I can remember in my early teens running round in my Alonzo mourning jersey and my best mate at the time was fanatical shaq supporter. He's just got back from the states and went to the Miami / Boston game 5 hoping to see the big man in action. He was shattered when he didn't suit up. Would have been his last game

[White Line Fever]

he should replace Oprah

[Zelezny Chucks]

In terms of the story of the homeless guy Jordan was actually right in that account. Most social workers are required to sign a contract that forbids them to give money and instead encourage them to go to a centre to get help. It seems cruel, but it's what they recommend is best for the homeless person in question.

And those stories are ones that came out later on. At the time they weren't widely spoken about. Just like Woods was known by a lot of people to have been up to no good, at the time it wasn't common knowledge. What is known now shouldn't be confused with what was known then.

Whilst I'm not interested in discussing Jordan's basketball ability with you (he's the GOAT by a healthy margin):

(a) Barkley was not a social worker. It was a disgusting thing to do by Jordan to try and stop him giving a few bucks to a homeless guy even more so due to the almost complete lack of welfare in such a wealthy country like the US. Thankfully Barkley at least had some sort of social conscience and empathy towards his fellow human beings less fortunate than him unlike Jordan.

(b) No they didn't all come out later on. If I some guy in Australia knew about his gambling binges, arrogant attitude towards teammates and rumours of infidelity on the road through the media during his playing days than logically it was common knowledge in the US too.

It wasn't a few bucks though was it? It was $100 what do you think he would have spent it on after he'd got himself a feed? Homeless people are homeless for a reason and unfortunately for most it is poor financial decisions and before you say it is drug addictions, alcoholic addictions, gambling addictions etc. they in the end are poor financial decisions. If you don't have the money don't spend it.

Hell even Bible nuts will contradict you, "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, Teach a man to fish and he will eat for life"

[Johno6]

how much do u think the left hand injury to dirk effects him and the teams chances tomorrow??

[Grahaml]

Shaq really carried the league between the Jordan and James era in terms of the marketability of it. Loved the way he went about it and his attitude in general was great. Rates pretty highly on the all time list in my book. Ahead of Kobe for sure just quietly.

Saw some footage of him at his peak in Melbourne joining the tigers for a shootaround. Back in the days when Gaze, Copeland, Bradtke et all were a strong side. Shaq's ability compared to those guys made him look like a nimble point guard, not the biggest bloke going around.

And I don't mind Shaq returning to acting. Might not be a good actor, but the sport without Shaq in the spotlight is all the poorer.

[Grahaml]

how much do u think the left hand injury to dirk effects him and the teams chances tomorrow??

Very little. They'll tape it up and it's his off hand. Unless it really hurts he'll hardly notice it, but I suspect if it does they'll give him a local anesthetic of some sort.

[Gozu]

I adopted Shaq as my favourite player during his rookie season. All those years ago. I remember people saying at the time he wouldn't have a long career due to his supposed poor conditioning but he played longer than contemporaries like Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson and even Mutombo. The MDE for mine. Averaged better than 20ppg & 10rpg each season for the first 13 years of his career. Only player ever to win NBA player of the week in his first week in the league.

23.7ppg, 10.9rpg, 2.5apg, 2.3bpg shooting 58% from the field over a 19 year career.

5th all-time in points, 7th all-time in blocks, 12th all-time in rebounds, 3rd all-time in player efficiency and 1st all-time in FG%.

4 x Championships
6 x NBA Finals
9 x Conference Finals

1 x MVP (received a staggering 99.8% of the vote)
3 x Finals series MVP
3 x All-Star game MVP
15 x All-Star selections (2nd all-time)
8 x All-NBA 1st Team

and gold medal's at the '94 World Championships where he was tournament MVP and at the '96 Olympics.

[Gozu]

What I'll always remember most about Shaq is just how dominant he was in the Finals series of those three consecutive championships with the Lakers.

2000 Finals- 38ppg @ 61%, 16.7rpg, 2.67bpg, 2.3apg

2001 Finals- 33ppg @ 57%, 15.8rpg, 4.8apg, 3.4bpg

2002 Finals- 36.3ppg @ 60%, 12.3rpg, 3.8apg, 2.75bpg

I'm not sure anyone has ever dominated a Finals for three straight years the way that Shaq did during the Lakers' first three-peat that began in 2000. Had he been so inclined, and had he not had the talented Kobe Bryant as a teammate, I truly believe that Shaq could've averaged 50 a game against the Pacers, the 76ers and the Nets.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... ref=sircrc