Is it time for two divisions of the AFL?

[X Runna]

I should elaborate....

When we get to 20 sides (maybe before), we'll have two divisions.

The gap between the 'good' and 'poor' sides is ever increasing and hence this is a way to even it up - from a win loss ratio only I might add.

The AFL wont stand for having teams 7-0 (and potentially getting stronger on and off the field) and 0-7 (and potentially getting worse on and off the field) for much longer.

Essentially it'd be say an East and West conference style set up with 10 teams playing each other (in their own div) twice (18 games) and then possibly playing say 6 from the other div.

The AFL can then have an elaborate scheme whereby the finals can be a World Series, where the two conference winners play each other in a best of "eleven-teen" to see who is "World Champions".

(ok that last bit is me being mischevious, but the rest is a monty).

You are right on the money there, and I bet the way the AFL sets it up for at least the 1st year will turn the clock back 20 odd years.

It will be just like the old days of VFL (and the way free to air TV is going lately we'll probably get "The Winners" back too, and that's all we'll get), and the rest of the sides in the league can have their own little affair where they won't intrude on Melbourne soil until September.

Big games & crowds every week in Melbourne, rest of Australia can't fill stadiums now so what the heck if they don't fill them when this happens. The AFL will make squillions in attendances in Melbourne, plus the TV coverage. TV agreements I think dictate the best game of the week is to be Friday night, and the 2nd best Saturday night, what's the bet they are both broadcast out of Melbourne?

But......there is probably no better way to start it, other than odd number teams from the previous season being in the "Skilton Conference" and the evens being in "Barassi", then maybe 2 teams a year swap 'conference' depending on where they finish.

I think the AFLPA will push the point the season is too long now and they will not entertain the idea of having to play more games than they do currently. My bet is they will come down to 18 games a year eventually, playing only those teams in their respective conferences twice a year. They could drag finals out in round 1 by playing 'across conference' over 2 legs (top 3 sides in each group).

Just my thoughts........

[Baron Greenback]

I posted my thougths else where before but i think there is more chance of the current 18 teams being split into two confrences!

Conference 1Melbourne
Geelong
St.Kilda
Richmond
Carlton
Collingwood
Essendon
Hawthorn
Western Bulldogs

Conference 2
Adelaide
Port Adelaide
Brisbane
Gold Coast
Fremantle
West Coast
Greater Western Sydney
Sydney
Kangaroos (based in Tasmania or Canberra)

Each team plays their own conference team 3 times (24 week minor round). This enables conference 1 to have lots of blockbusters and 50K plus crowds to most matches. Plus the Victorian clubs will save lots on travel expenses. The Conference 2 clubs already travel every 2 week so their travelling costs will only be affected minimally.

Top 4 from each conference make the FINAL 8 where better home and away records decide seedings and home ground advantage until the GF is played at the MCG.

Yeah that's rubbish. Conference one doesn't have to fly interstate at all.

[whufc]

I posted my thougths else where before but i think there is more chance of the current 18 teams being split into two confrences!

Conference 1Melbourne
Geelong
St.Kilda
Richmond
Carlton
Collingwood
Essendon
Hawthorn
Western Bulldogs

Conference 2
Adelaide
Port Adelaide
Brisbane
Gold Coast
Fremantle
West Coast
Greater Western Sydney
Sydney
Kangaroos (based in Tasmania or Canberra)

Each team plays their own conference team 3 times (24 week minor round). This enables conference 1 to have lots of blockbusters and 50K plus crowds to most matches. Plus the Victorian clubs will save lots on travel expenses. The Conference 2 clubs already travel every 2 week so their travelling costs will only be affected minimally.

Top 4 from each conference make the FINAL 8 where better home and away records decide seedings and home ground advantage until the GF is played at the MCG.

Yeah that's rubbish. Conference one doesn't have to fly interstate at all.

Would the AFL care about that!

the Victorian teams would be financial ALOT better off, and the interstate sides would only be travelling twice more in a season which im sure the AFL would be happy to subsidise if that meant the Vic side were thousands of dollars better off.

It makes perfect FINANCIAL sense for the AFL, at the moment that is all they seem to care about.

[White Line Fever]

I posted my thougths else where before but i think there is more chance of the current 18 teams being split into two confrences!

Conference 1Melbourne
Geelong
St.Kilda
Richmond
Carlton
Collingwood
Essendon
Hawthorn
Western Bulldogs

Conference 2
Adelaide
Port Adelaide
Brisbane
Gold Coast
Fremantle
West Coast
Greater Western Sydney
Sydney
Kangaroos (based in Tasmania or Canberra)

Each team plays their own conference team 3 times (24 week minor round). This enables conference 1 to have lots of blockbusters and 50K plus crowds to most matches. Plus the Victorian clubs will save lots on travel expenses. The Conference 2 clubs already travel every 2 week so their travelling costs will only be affected minimally.

Top 4 from each conference make the FINAL 8 where better home and away records decide seedings and home ground advantage until the GF is played at the MCG.

Yeah that's rubbish. Conference one doesn't have to fly interstate at all.

Great idea.

Call conference 1 the VFL
Call conference 2 the AFL

[MatteeG]

Not sure about the east v west, but i definately reckon a div 1 and 2 with promotion and relegation.

Thats what should have happened from the start 3 divisions containing all clubs from Vic, SA & WA with promotions & relegation and every club has a chance to make Div1 not the garbage we have got now.

Preaching to the converted here pels. AMEN!

[gadj1976]

I should elaborate....

When we get to 20 sides (maybe before), we'll have two divisions.

The gap between the 'good' and 'poor' sides is ever increasing and hence this is a way to even it up - from a win loss ratio only I might add.

The AFL wont stand for having teams 7-0 (and potentially getting stronger on and off the field) and 0-7 (and potentially getting worse on and off the field) for much longer.

Essentially it'd be say an East and West conference style set up with 10 teams playing each other (in their own div) twice (18 games) and then possibly playing say 6 from the other div.

The AFL can then have an elaborate scheme whereby the finals can be a World Series, where the two conference winners play each other in a best of "eleven-teen" to see who is "World Champions".

(ok that last bit is me being mischevious, but the rest is a monty).

You are right on the money there, and I bet the way the AFL sets it up for at least the 1st year will turn the clock back 20 odd years.

It will be just like the old days of VFL (and the way free to air TV is going lately we'll probably get "The Winners" back too, and that's all we'll get), and the rest of the sides in the league can have their own little affair where they won't intrude on Melbourne soil until September.

Big games & crowds every week in Melbourne, rest of Australia can't fill stadiums now so what the heck if they don't fill them when this happens. The AFL will make squillions in attendances in Melbourne, plus the TV coverage. TV agreements I think dictate the best game of the week is to be Friday night, and the 2nd best Saturday night, what's the bet they are both broadcast out of Melbourne?

But......there is probably no better way to start it, other than odd number teams from the previous season being in the "Skilton Conference" and the evens being in "Barassi", then maybe 2 teams a year swap 'conference' depending on where they finish.

I think the AFLPA will push the point the season is too long now and they will not entertain the idea of having to play more games than they do currently. My bet is they will come down to 18 games a year eventually, playing only those teams in their respective conferences twice a year. They could drag finals out in round 1 by playing 'across conference' over 2 legs (top 3 sides in each group).

Just my thoughts........

I don't necessarily agree with your first comment about having a predominantly VFL/rest of Aust split. In fact, I think they'll have Essendon, Carlton, Collingwood and maybe Richmond split across the 2 or 3 divisions, making the blockbusters just that.

The actual formation of the conferences or divisions isn't really important, more so that the comp LOOKS like it's being evened up and you're not getting the disparity between the better and lesser clubs.

[gadj1976]

Not sure about the east v west, but i definately reckon a div 1 and 2 with promotion and relegation.

Thats what should have happened from the start 3 divisions containing all clubs from Vic, SA & WA with promotions & relegation and every club has a chance to make Div1 not the garbage we have got now.

Preaching to the converted here pels. AMEN!

What's to say the VFL, WAFL and SANFL teams wont be that competition in the near future?

[whufc]

I should elaborate....

When we get to 20 sides (maybe before), we'll have two divisions.

The gap between the 'good' and 'poor' sides is ever increasing and hence this is a way to even it up - from a win loss ratio only I might add.

The AFL wont stand for having teams 7-0 (and potentially getting stronger on and off the field) and 0-7 (and potentially getting worse on and off the field) for much longer.

Essentially it'd be say an East and West conference style set up with 10 teams playing each other (in their own div) twice (18 games) and then possibly playing say 6 from the other div.

The AFL can then have an elaborate scheme whereby the finals can be a World Series, where the two conference winners play each other in a best of "eleven-teen" to see who is "World Champions".

(ok that last bit is me being mischevious, but the rest is a monty).

You are right on the money there, and I bet the way the AFL sets it up for at least the 1st year will turn the clock back 20 odd years.

It will be just like the old days of VFL (and the way free to air TV is going lately we'll probably get "The Winners" back too, and that's all we'll get), and the rest of the sides in the league can have their own little affair where they won't intrude on Melbourne soil until September.

Big games & crowds every week in Melbourne, rest of Australia can't fill stadiums now so what the heck if they don't fill them when this happens. The AFL will make squillions in attendances in Melbourne, plus the TV coverage. TV agreements I think dictate the best game of the week is to be Friday night, and the 2nd best Saturday night, what's the bet they are both broadcast out of Melbourne?

But......there is probably no better way to start it, other than odd number teams from the previous season being in the "Skilton Conference" and the evens being in "Barassi", then maybe 2 teams a year swap 'conference' depending on where they finish.

I think the AFLPA will push the point the season is too long now and they will not entertain the idea of having to play more games than they do currently. My bet is they will come down to 18 games a year eventually, playing only those teams in their respective conferences twice a year. They could drag finals out in round 1 by playing 'across conference' over 2 legs (top 3 sides in each group).

Just my thoughts........

I don't necessarily agree with your first comment about having a predominantly VFL/rest of Aust split. In fact, I think they'll have Essendon, Carlton, Collingwood and maybe Richmond split across the 2 or 3 divisions, making the blockbusters just that.

The actual formation of the conferences or divisions isn't really important, more so that the comp LOOKS like it's being evened up and you're not getting the disparity between the better and lesser clubs.

Sorry Gadj i didnt read your post before posting mine, your thoughts are exactly how i think the AFL is looking to head.

My only diffence is i do think they will keep the VIC sides in the one division as this would absolutly maximise crowd attendances.

Also think if they took 4 from each division into the finals the AFL would be extremly happy if they could guarentee every single year 4 victorian clubs and 4 interstate clubs made the finals. I dont think the AFL would be overly happy if for example Port, GC, GWS, Kang, WB all made the finals with Coll, Ess, Carl, Haw all missing out.

[whufc]

Will add the AFL have definatly followed the Amercianized structure of competitions rather than go for the European/Britian relegation/promotion systems

ala Salary Caps, Drafts, Finals, Trade Weeks etc etc, i can see this continuing with a conference system of some sort.

[Zelezny Chucks]

It's already being tested out with the Foxtel Cup.

[auto]

yes-relagation and promotion system

[The Jack]

Do you want to see One Port play each other auto?

[Zelezny Chucks]

Do you want to see One Port play each other auto?

Back the draw!!

[auto]

Do you want to see One Port play each other auto?

Yeah thought of that....but i would think if it came down to promotion/relagation then we would have to become One Club One Team.

[Ingall]

Have read this thread and still can't see the benefit. Just can't see any point to it.

[fish]

There would clearly be several ways of going about it, the most obvious seems to add sides from the NT and Tas into the mix then separate the top 10 sides into the Premier League and the bottom 8 sides plus the two new sides into the Championship league and have everyone play each other twice, with a Grand Final series in each division, the top sides of C/L go up, the sides that finish bottom in P/L drop down.

Thoughts?

I reckon the 2 x 10-team Divisions on a promotion/relegation basis would be the way to go. Top five in each division play a SANFL-style finals series.

Bottom two from Div 1 are relegated. Grand Finalists in Div 2 are promoted.

[gadj1976]

Have read this thread and still can't see the benefit. Just can't see any point to it.

happy with the inequality in the draw?
happy with the lopsidedness of the competition?

[Hondo]

Have read this thread and still can't see the benefit. Just can't see any point to it.

happy with the inequality in the draw?
happy with the lopsidedness of the competition?

Splitting into 2 groups of 9 doesn't make it any less inequitable

If anything, it further limits the chances of random match ups to equalise things

Is it any more lop-sided now than it has ever been and, indeed, how lopsided really is it?

The only truly fair way is the 34 rounds but as CoverKing said a while back, you don't need that many rounds to find your two grand finalists. Often times, the 2 best teams are obvious before even every team has played each other once. There comes a point where playing more games adds nothing other than extra games for the sake of this alleged utopian equal draw. How many times is the final 8 pretty much settled after round 16 and then hardly changes after round 22 is completed? Most times ... Our game is all about finals and you only need enough rounds to get the best 8 teams settled and even then only the top 4 are really in contention. Do we need another 12 games to end up with the same top 4 as we already had at round 22?

[The Dark Knight]

I reckon the 2 x 10-team Divisions on a promotion/relegation basis would be the way to go. Top five in each division play a SANFL-style finals series.

Bottom two from Div 1 are relegated. Grand Finalists in Div 2 are promoted.

Strongly agree with you Fish. I think that having a Higher (Div 1) and then a lower (Div 2) division where each season the bottom two teams from Div 1 are relegated and the two grand finalists from Div 2 are promoted would be theway to go.

[Ingall]

Have read this thread and still can't see the benefit. Just can't see any point to it.

happy with the inequality in the draw?
happy with the lopsidedness of the competition?

Well, the lopsidedness is just what happens in any sporting competition whether it's the AFL, SANFL, EPL, NFL or the local high school cricket league. And how would different divisions or conferences change that?

And the inequities of the draw are deliberate. If they wanted to, they can fix it very easily.