List Management

[Dutchy]

Still havent answered my question -

What do you want the St Kilda Football CLub to do?

[Booney]

List managment at West Lakes has and will be ammusing as long as James Fantasia is in charge of recruiting.Alan Stewart making him look good,by default.But hey,it bothers me none whatsoever.Keep up the good work Jimbo.

[JK]

List managment at West Lakes has and will be ammusing as long as James Fantasia is in charge of recruiting.Alan Stewart making him look good,by default.But hey,it bothers me none whatsoever.Keep up the good work Jimbo.

I agree with this, and have always been suprised by the esteem some people hold Fantasia in ... In regard to other comments on here, I think the Crows opportunity to win a flag with their aging stars of Ricciutio, Goodwin, McLeod, Edwards et al has passed (2005 was their chance) and if they are to lift the trophy again it will come from a markedly different outfit to the one they now have.

[Dutchy]

LOL - time for others to feel the wrath of Syd Dog.......WOOF!

I think anyone could do his job with the amount of support he has all over the country, not many other clubs can afford this...

I met him earlier this year and stated "Maric will play significant footy in 2006" and "Thompson will dominate the midfield"

0-2 Jimmy!

[Blue Boy]

When I heard about the Saints playin a couple short I was LMAO big time.

So much for Grant managing everything so well.

Any way after this was revealed why didnt a couple of players take a pay cut so the club could fill the other 2 spots on the list. Hammill & Milne spring to mind straight away !!!

[sydney-dog]

Dutchy.

Ho Hum here we go again, this time of year, right now not 6 weeks ago, from what Ive heard Hay has worked his butt off. Every single club will come out and say this and that and of course everything is Rosey this time of year...well its a worry if it isnt surely???

I never said or quoted the the club in regards to that Maric and Meesen looked fantasic on the track

This statement was made from my persoanal "observations" from watching the crusher group train during the first week of November when I was back in Adelaide, and I made these comments on another thread once I had returned back to Sydney

So maybe you should stop making assumptions that their are virgins in "Oxford Street " and secondly that my statement was a DIRECT reference from the club

In regards to the Saints and your question

WELL Obviously at present their is little they can do t5o mittigate against this mis-management

The purpose of this thread was to get a sense of the members opinion on the following

1. What state do members believe Thomas has left the club in, in specific to it's playing list

2. How significant will the impact be on the Saints for 2007 and beyond 2008 & 2009

3. Should Grant be held entirely responsible or should others share the accountability

The Saints are the only club facing the situation of not being able to submit a full list due to Cap restraints, I was trying to gauge from the forum what members believed would be the immediate and medium term impact on the club, most importantly, if it was their club, how would they feel

In closing, I made my thoughts know, based on where I think the Saints list is at, and the strength of the current draft

[mal]

S/DOG

SK at last have higher profile ruckmen
Have a different coach
Have the same home ground
Won a flag in 1966

Everything else is purely speculative.

[sydney-dog]

Mal

1. not sure how this keeps treading back to ruckman, the purpose of the thread was not about ruck stocks

2. at the moment you still only have 1 Ruckman

3. but if Clarke gets confirmed as we all expect tomorrow then yes the Saints do have two ruckman, even given the fact Gardiner has not Rucked since 2002

Mal

From you I want you to answer my questions re list management, we can put the question in to one

Q. In what state of health has Grant Thomas left the St Kilda's list

The purpose of this question is as stated earlier I believe the Saints are in for a tough year

1. Lyon's appointment was not well timed and he had limited opportunity to plan and shape the list

2. Lyon is already restricted in his drafting due to Salary Cap pressure

3. Lyon needs to manage a shorter list then all other clubs

4. Lyon has the following players all returning from Serious Injuries, Hamill, Kosi, Gardiner, McGuire, Hayes and Watts

My view is the Saints are in for a tough year, Thomas has left this list in a poor condition and we need to give Lyon two seasons before we even start judging him as a coach

I seek your broader view, this was the purpose of the thread, not purely ruck stocks

[Dutchy]

I know it was your personal view, I just get sick of supporters and club officials saying how good they are going this time of year...

Brisbane arent going in with a full list next season either, M Voss will still be on their list in '07 even though retired.

FWIW I strongly believe the Saints will be the best Melbourne team nest year...still have a good list, will have good ruckmen, still have a potent forward line, defence is serviceable but will miss McGuire and most importantly they have a Coach who maybe able to harness the talent and deliver on game day....time will tell.

[mal]

As reported on foxsports earlier today ***MALS answers *** to SD post.
____________________________________________________________________________
even though the Saints have 3 selections at the 2007 Pre-Season draft they can only take 1 player as they have no room to move under the salary cap

YES

____________________________________________________________________________

this means the saints playing list for 2007 will be 2 players short,


YES

_____________________________________________________________________________

SD Says

this is totally unacceptable, in the past Grant Thompson was responsible for all player contract negotiations, when you benchmark the Saints against the other top 4 clubs who have more established players, those clubs all play with a full list and have more depth


NO, APART FROM WEST COAST THE SAINTS LIST IS VERY GOOD

________________________________________________________________________________

this is a poor position for the club to be in and just another process Grant cocked up


NO,PURELY SPECULATIVE THAT ANSWER WILL BE KNOWN BY OCTOBER 2007
2 PLAYERS LESS ....YES
2 RUCKMEN MORE...MAY OFFSET THIS

_________________________________________________________________________

no wonder the players loved him, "he was signing their inflated pay cheques"

??? DONT KNOW IF THE PLAYERS LOVED HIM, I AM HETEROSEXUAL, SO AM NOT QUALIFIED
TO ANSWER THIS STATEMENT

_________________________________________________________________________

Exhibit A the original post
2 X yes
2 x no
1 x ???

[Dutchy]

Is it correct for teh Crows to have kept 2 places effectively vacant on their list for Hentschell and Biglands???? Seems to be very similar to Saint Kilda...if the Crows delisted them (and picked them up again in '08) they could fill those spots and have a full list, OK they can do that via rookies but thats a big punt to take.

So far teams that wont have a full list next year -

Adelaide, Saints, Brisbane...any more?

[sydney-dog]

Dutchy

Completely different

Both the Crows and the Lions submitted full list, filling all 40 senior spots, while St Kilda submitted a list with 38 senior players

All three clubs are similar in the fact they are carrying players with long term injuries, meaning they can list them on a long term injury list and bring in a player of their rookie list to fill the vacant spot on the list until the listed injured player is right to go again.

At present the crows have both Biglands and Hentchel still listed on their senior list

For season 2007, the crows may be restricted by the Biglands and Trent's injuries but they have the capacity to replace these players and maintain a full roster, the Saints too can replace injured senioe listed players with rookie listed players. BUT they cannot promote two rookies to the two vacant spots on their list as they do not have room under their salary cap, so they will play the entire season two players short

ADELAIDE
1. Bassett, Nathan
2. Biglands, Rhett
3. Bock, Nathan
4. Bode, Matthew
5. Burton, Brett
6. Campbell, Bryce
7. Doughty, Michael
8. Douglas, Richard
9. Edwards, Tyson
10. Gill, Nick
11. Goodwin, Simon (veteran - outside list)
12. Griffin, Jonathon
13. Hentschel, Trent
14. Hinge, John
15. Hudson, Ben
16. Jericho, Luke
17. Johncock, Graham
18. Knights, Chris
19. Mackay, David
20. Maric, Ivan
21. Massie, Kris
22. Mattner, Martin
23. McGregor, Ken
24. McLeod, Andrew
25. Meesen, John
26. Perrie, Ian
27. Pfeiffer, Darren
28. Porplyzia, Jason
29. Reilly, Brent
30. Ricciuto, Mark (veteran - outside list)
31. Rutten, Ben
32. Sellar, James
33. Shirley, Robert
34. Stevens, Scott
35. Thompson, Scott
36. Tippett, Kurt
37. Torney, Jason
38. van Berlo, Nathan
39. Vince, Bernie
40. Welsh, Scott

BRISBANE LIONS
1. Adcock, Jed
2. Allan, Marcus
3. Black, Simon
4. Bradshaw, Daniel
5. Brennan, Jared
6. Brown, Jonathan
7. Charman, Jamie
8. Clark, Mitchell
9. Copeland, Robert
10. Drummond, Josh
11. Fixter, Ben
12. Garner, Pat
13. Hadley, Richard
14. Harding, Scott
15. Hawksley, James
16. Hooper, Rhan
17. Johnson, Chris L.
18. Lappin, Nigel (veteran - outside list)
19. Leuenberger, Matthew
20. Macdonald, Joel
21. McDonald, Beau
22. McGrath, Ashley
23. Merrett, Daniel
24. Mills, Wayde
25. Moody, Matthew
26. Notting, Tim
27. Patfull, Joel
28. Power, Luke
29. Proud, Albert
30. Rischitelli, Michael
31. Roe, Jason
32. Schmidt, Chris
33. Scott, Chris
34. Selwood, Troy
35. Sheldon, Sam
36. Sherman, Justin
37. Stiller, Cheynee
38. Tyler, Matt
39. Voss, Michael (veteran - outside list)
40. Wood, Cameron

ST KILDA
1. Allen, Jarryd
2. Armitage, David
3. Baker, Steven
4. Ball, Luke
5. Birss, Shane
6. Blake, Jason
7. Brooks, Barry
8. Clarke, Matthew
9. Clarke, Raphael
10. Clarke, Xavier
11. Dal Santo, Nick
12. Ferguson, Matthew
13. Fiora, Aaron
14. Fisher, Leigh
15. Fisher, Sam
16. Gardiner, Michael
17. Gehrig, Fraser
18. Gilbert, Sam
19. Goddard, Brendon
20. Gram, Jason
21. Gwilt, James
22. Hamill, Aaron
23. Harvey, Robert (veteran - inside list)
24. Hayes, Lenny
25. Howard, Brad
26. Hudghton, Max (veteran - inside list)
27. Koschitzke, Justin
28. Maguire, Matt
29. McQualter, Andrew
30. Milne, Stephen
31. Montagna, Leigh
32. Raymond, Phillip
33. Riewoldt, Nick
34. Rix, Michael
35. Sweeney, Justin
36. Thompson, Andrew
37. Voss, Brett
38. Watts, Fergus

[Dutchy]

FFS read my post, I know all that...Im saying its a risk the crows are taking, you cant just presume that the rookies will be up to it, they could have used those spots to recruit a proven player or redraft Skippy...I would bet Skiipy would have more impact next year if called upon rather than an unproven rookie...agree?

at the start of the season Saints and Crows start in exactly the same position if you take off Biglands and Hentschell, its just saints dont have the option of bringing up a rookie like the Crows do....again not many rookies have an impact in their first year, subsequent years yes...

[sydney-dog]

In regards to Skippy, I agree, I think he would provide value at a lot of clubs, prior to both drafts I thought he would of found a new home

I think the crows decision was based on the depth they believe they have we midfielders or small forwards, Skippy has obviously fallen behind, Proplyzia, Bode, Knights, Van Berlo, Douglas, Doughty in the pecking order

With the success of drafting Proplyzia as a mature age player the club would be hoping for a similar outcome with Campbell and Archard

I believe the crows are ok with smalls

On the second point with the Saints and Crows start in exactly the same position if you take off Biglands and Hentschell, well to Balance this the Saints could be without McGuire and Hamill and I'm not sure how Watts and Hayes are tracking, so potentially they may not have between 2-4 players available from their already short list available for league selection until well in to the season

[Blue Boy]

In regards to Skippy, I agree, I think he would provide value at a lot of clubs, prior to both drafts I thought he would of found a new home

I think the crows decision was based on the depth they believe they have we midfielders or small forwards, Skippy has obviously fallen behind, Proplyzia, Bode, Knights, Van Berlo, Douglas, Doughty in the pecking order

Syd

A said all along all players above had passed him !!!

[mal]

Biglands, Hentschell out injured
Burton, Roocuitio injury prone
I have the answer to the Adelaide Crows forward line.
Romario.

[Dutchy]

Negri?

[mal]

Negri?

Romario on loan from Adelaide UNITED

[ORDoubleBlues]

Brisbane arent going in with a full list next season either, M Voss will still be on their list in '07 even though retired.

Is that right?
Even though he's been a great servant to the club, does he really deserve a spot on the list so he can collect his million dollar contract?
Appreciate that the club is the one to blame for signing him to such a heavily loaded back-ended contract, a la Carlton with Koutoufides, but Voss is doing the Lions no favour whatsoever.
I also know that Steven Silvagni tried to pull this one with Carlton as well in 2002.

[bay boy]

Brisbane arent going in with a full list next season either, M Voss will still be on their list in '07 even though retired.

Is that right?
Even though he's been a great servant to the club, does he really deserve a spot on the list so he can collect his million dollar contract?
Appreciate that the club is the one to blame for signing him to such a heavily loaded back-ended contract, a la Carlton with Koutoufides, but Voss is doing the Lions no favour whatsoever.
I also know that Steven Silvagni tried to pull this one with Carlton as well in 2002.

Nothing gets past you does it ORD (the footy brain)