pickard drops offer

[bayman]

according to ch 9 news on now, pickard has dropped the offer to the magpies & it is only for the power, surely this is a bigger kick in the guts than the merger vote was

[Apachebulldog]

This whole saga is starting to becoming a farce and one big con job.

Its becoming obvious now that this is all about saving the PAFC ( Power ) and not the Maggies.

To me it seems after reading all this information that the Power are in dire financial trouble.

I still do not understand why the AFL with all its millions of dollars and after propping up numerous VIC FOOTY CLUBS are not giving financial assistance to the Power i know the SANFL own the licence but why should they bail them out ????

[dedja]

This whole saga is starting to becoming a farce and one big con job.

Its becoming obvious now that this is all about saving the PAFC ( Power ) and not the Maggies.

To me it seems after reading all this information that the Power are in dire financial trouble.

I still do not understand why the AFL with all its millions of dollars and after propping up numerous VIC FOOTY CLUBS are not giving financial assistance to the Power i know the SANFL own the licence but why should they bail them out ????

<set broken record> = ON

Because the fate of the Power is largely with the SANFL which makes a sh*tload of cash out of Power home games at AAMI stadium. Why would the AFL bail out the Power when the SANFL can do it with a fairer stadium deal.

The SANFL is in a unique position (like in the West) where they own the AFL licences and the stadium. No Victorian team (other than Geelong) is in that position.

[stan]

This whole saga is starting to becoming a farce and one big con job.

Its becoming obvious now that this is all about saving the PAFC ( Power ) and not the Maggies.

To me it seems after reading all this information that the Power are in dire financial trouble.

I still do not understand why the AFL with all its millions of dollars and after propping up numerous VIC FOOTY CLUBS are not giving financial assistance to the Power i know the SANFL own the licence but why should they bail them out ????

<set broken record> = ON

Because the fate of the Power is largely with the SANFL which makes a sh*tload of cash out of Power home games at AAMI stadium. Why would the AFL bail out the Power when the SANFL can do it with a fairer stadium deal.

The SANFL is in a unique position (like in the West) where they own the AFL licences and the stadium. No Victorian team (other than Geelong) is in that position.

Correct there Dedja, the SANFL make heaps out of the Power and Crows games, and the AFL are saying look at the stadium deal, thats where the power will start to get out of trouble again. The reason the crows make money is that they get 40 - 50 thousand per game and have a larger following.

The SANFL need to look at this and work something out for the Power and of course the Crows as well.

[Psyber]

I thought the whole point of the SANFL taking up the licences in the AFL was to make money for the SANFL and its teams.
They are not there to ensure profits for the Crows and Power to the detriment of the SANFL teams.
Perhaps the SANFL should run both licences directly as non-profit organisations, and if the Port franchise is not paying get a new franchisee...

[dedja]

I thought the whole point of the SANFL taking up the licences in the AFL was to make money for the SANFL and its teams.
They are not there to ensure profits for the Crows and Power to the detriment of the SANFL teams.
Perhaps the SANFL should run both licences directly as non-profit organisations, and if the Port franchise is not paying get a new franchisee...

LOL, and how do the SANFL make money without the AFL teams?

What part of the fact that the SANFL makes a killing out of the Crows and Power is not easily understood. It's just that the Crows are better at generating more revenue for the SANFL than the Power because of their greater appeal and attendances.

Is it so hard to get over what happened 20 years ago for some?

[Apachebulldog]

Well what happened 20 years ago has really stuffed up the SANFL, the PAFC has destroyed local footy by forcing the SANFL's hand to put a team in and join the so called national comp VFL/AFL.

There is a possibility that both the Power and the Maggies could become extinct if they do not sort out their financials.

[Psyber]

I thought the whole point of the SANFL taking up the licences in the AFL was to make money for the SANFL and its teams.
They are not there to ensure profits for the Crows and Power to the detriment of the SANFL teams.
Perhaps the SANFL should run both licences directly as non-profit organisations, and if the Port franchise is not paying get a new franchisee...

LOL, and how do the SANFL make money without the AFL teams?
What part of the fact that the SANFL makes a killing out of the Crows and Power is not easily understood. It's just that the Crows are better at generating more revenue for the SANFL than the Power because of their greater appeal and attendances.
Is it so hard to get over what happened 20 years ago for some?

What I said above was that the AFL teams were there for the SANFL to make money with, and that is how the SANFL makes the money....
I suggested the SANFL appoint its own administration of both clubs, to make sure it is efficient, and when I said make them non-profit, I meant take all profits out of the two SA AFL teams and only put back enough to balance the books at neutral for the year, rather than run them by remote control through an administration with its own agenda - they are not independent operations directly holding an AFL licence like the Melbourne teams but sub-franchisees to the SANFL..

Then, with that in place, if one is still not paying its way, they could look at why, and whether a replacement product may do better.
I think I may have used the word franchisee a bit sloppily, making misinterpretation possible...

[dedja]

I give up!

[The Sleeping Giant]

I thought it was very obvious what you were getting at Psyber. And I agree.

[Psyber]

I give up!

To put it more simply, I wasn't suggesting the SANFL shouldn't make a profit out of the AFL teams, but that the teams themselves need not hold profits if the SANFL ran them directly, controlled their expenditure, then put back enough to balance their books each year. I was suggesting the quasi-independence was where the problems arose.

[dedja]

They need to be independent.

What autonomy would they have with their football department, who would decide their budget and how do you balance the fiscal side with competiveness on the field? It must be me because I'm sort of struggling to see how that would work.

Would you fund both team the same, etc, etc.

You'll end up with how government departments are run ... work to a budget rather than an outcome. No need to be enterprising or innovative because there's no reward for you at the end as all the spoils go to Treasury. For eg. if the Power could sign up a major sponsor but the spoils would go directly to the SANFL and nothing to them, why would they bother?

There has to be a balance between fiscal responsibility and on-field success ... the very issue that all football (and indeed all sporting) teams have faced for many, many years.

[Macca19]

yawn

The SANFL would generate over $30 million in revenue from AFL games played at AAMI stadium. The SANFL clubs see at most $4 million of that combined. Wouldnt be all that hard for the SANFL to give the clubs a fairer deal and either keep the current dividends or even improve it. The SANFL keeps too much for itself. Not for the SANFL clubs, but for itself.

This is the reason why the AFL wont bail out Port. Its not up to them. They arent the ones taking $12 million from Port home games.

The talk of that the two AFL clubs were set up only to make money for the SANFL teams is silliness. That hasnt exactly happened now has it.

[dedja]

yawn

The SANFL would generate over $30 million in revenue from AFL games played at AAMI stadium. The SANFL clubs see at most $4 million of that combined. Wouldnt be all that hard for the SANFL to give the clubs a fairer deal and either keep the current dividends or even improve it. The SANFL keeps too much for itself. Not for the SANFL clubs, but for itself.

This is the reason why the AFL wont bail out Port. Its not up to them. They arent the ones taking $12 million from Port home games.

The talk of that the two AFL clubs were set up only to make money for the SANFL teams is silliness. That hasnt exactly happened now has it.

Pretty much spot on ...

[redandblack]

macca, what is the source for your figures, please.

I think they're very rubbery.

I'd say the current SANFL financial position is not as healthy as you think and much of their profit is being ploughed back into propping up the Power.

[The Apostle]

macca, what is the source for your figures, please.

I think they're very rubbery.

I'd say the current SANFL financial position is not as healthy as you think and much of their profit is being ploughed back into propping up the Power.

I'm surprised nobody here hasn't asked the question of when is the SANFL going to cut the Power free...4.5 million loss in the last 2 years and another 2.6 million this year...

[dedja]

LOL macca, they're just not listening.

[Hondo]

The SANFL's 2008 annual report is loaded on their web-site.

Profit in 2008 $7m, 2007 $17m (2008 reduced by $4m due to a loss on sale of fixed assets). Total cash in bank of $32m.

But it's 12 months out of date and doesn't go into enough detail for me to draw any conclusions that might help this debate.

As a comparison, in 2008 the AFL made a profit of $17m after distributions and grants of $207m. I think a comparison of the AFL to the SANFLs financials is apples and oranges.

[dedja]

I'm surprised nobody here hasn't asked the question of when is the SANFL going to cut the Power free...4.5 million loss in the last 2 years and another 2.6 million this year...

Good move ... then the SANFL would be around $7M worse off every year.

[Hondo]

I'm surprised nobody here hasn't asked the question of when is the SANFL going to cut the Power free...4.5 million loss in the last 2 years and another 2.6 million this year...

Because there's an amount of money going into SANFL coffers from PAP home games at AAMI that is > than the money going out directly to the PAP currently as a "bail out". This is based on hearsay becayse I personally haven't seen the exact figures and it changes each time I read someone's guess.

Put it this way, there's a reason the SACA has been lobbying so hard to get PAP home games, even if only 25,000 people go and there's a reason no SANFL club or the SANFL itself has ever suggested this option.