Proposed model for the Magpies - Power Joint Venture?

[beenreal]

So then UK, you'd be happy to see your club compete in an SANFL with no Port Magpies?

Dont want them to die. But If they cant afford to survive then thats what happens to football clubs as sad as that maybe. Have you really been integral to the SANFLs last decade ????

Sorry booney no offence. But this whole contradiction of its the SANFL fault the magpies are alive cos we forced them to stay in the SANFL . Yet if we kill you, thus correcting that mistake its cos we have long memories and are jealous is utter crap.

If the only way for the magpies to survive is to give them advantages not available to any other of the SANFL clubs. Then I dont see how that can be justified.

To quote another poster on another thread. Live by the sword die by the sword.

No other club has had to deal with the DISADVANTAGES of the Magpies. Starting from scratch with having to build new training facilities, attract new sponsors and buy a new licensed venue. All in the last decade.

I just love how Central supporters talk down from their Taj mahal, paid for because they keep all their revenue.

[JK]

Would they have been happy if their club had voted to allow a similar merger between Norwood and the Crows when the administrators came within days of being called in at the Parade five or six years ago?

did Norwood have a team in the AFL competing with it's SANFL team?

All clubs did - The Crows

[topsywaldron]

It's fine to say that PAM will get an advantage from this merger compared to the other 8 clubs but arguably they are currently disadvantaged compared to those 8 teams by having an direct AFL team dividing it's supporter base.

How can this be the case if we're constantly told the PAMFC membership and spectator figures are the highest in the league? Surely this indicates their problems stem mainly from the mismanagement of the financial windfall they received when the Power were admitted into the AFL. Someone at the PAMFC signed a really, really bad deal with the Prince of Wales and the other eight SANFL clubs are expected to bail them out? No way.

I'm yet to see a valid reason for handing Port a competitive advantage by allowing this merger and that's what it'll be. Every phone call a Power employee makes on behalf on the Magpies is 45 cents saved that another SANFL club has to pay.

[Hondo]

Would they have been happy if their club had voted to allow a similar merger between Norwood and the Crows when the administrators came within days of being called in at the Parade five or six years ago?

did Norwood have a team in the AFL competing with it's SANFL team?

All clubs did - The Crows

That's right. As did Port Adelaide at the time. Now they have 1 indirect competitor like the other 8 clubs and 1 direct AFL team claiming it's heritage and trying to grab it's members/supporters. As I said, while it doesn't excuse the current financial problems entirely it can't be ignored entirely either.

There's a middle ground somewhere.

[JK]

Would they have been happy if their club had voted to allow a similar merger between Norwood and the Crows when the administrators came within days of being called in at the Parade five or six years ago?

did Norwood have a team in the AFL competing with it's SANFL team?

All clubs did - The Crows

That's right. As did Port Adelaide at the time. Now they have 1 indirect competitor like the other 8 clubs and 1 direct AFL team claiming it's heritage and trying to grab it's members/supporters. As I said, while it doesn't excuse the current financial problems entirely it can't be ignored entirely either.

There's a middle ground somewhere.

I agree, but how many supporters did each of the other clubs lose to the Crows and they dealt with it ... I agree in part with what you're saying, but I wouldn't downplay the numbers of people who stay away from the SANFL games because they are basically lost to the Crows.

[Hondo]

CP I am not ignoring the impact of the Crows on all the clubs. It's just that I feel there's got to be some further direct financial impact from having a directly linked AFL team and that "disadvantage" is getting ignored by some of us who only see all the potential advantages a merger would create.

For revenues, both PAP and PAM want to work the same area of Adelaide and basically get their members funds from the same group of people. Maybe that should have been thought about better by both the PAFC and the SANFL pre 1997 but we are where we are. TBH, in my mind Port should have left the SANFL altogether in 1996 but, now that didn't happen, I think we've got to find the next best option.

I also admit I don't know the first thing about the proposed merger's specific details other than what I have read on here and in the media. If there's some devil in the detail that hands PAM a definite advantage then I don't think that is right. Saving some admin costs and getting on an even financial footing with most of the other 8 clubs doesn't seem to be the end of the world to me, at face value. I feel we are jumping at shadows but I'll stand corrected as facts come out.

Other than North, does anyone know how their clubs are likely to vote?

[Booney]

I think it's been mentioned hondo that nobody wants to be seen as the executioner.

All this speculation about the propsed model is interesting to say the least. Does anyone really know what is being propsed or is all this just scuttlebutt?

[Hondo]

Booney, I think the draft merger agreement has this section:

"3.0 Intention: to create a SANFL powerhouse"

[beenreal]

It's fine to say that PAM will get an advantage from this merger compared to the other 8 clubs but arguably they are currently disadvantaged compared to those 8 teams by having an direct AFL team dividing it's supporter base.

How can this be the case if we're constantly told the PAMFC membership and spectator figures are the highest in the league? Surely this indicates their problems stem mainly from the mismanagement of the financial windfall they received when the Power were admitted into the AFL. Someone at the PAMFC signed a really, really bad deal with the Prince of Wales and the other eight SANFL clubs are expected to bail them out? No way.

I'm yet to see a valid reason for handing Port a competitive advantage by allowing this merger and that's what it'll be. Every phone call a Power employee makes on behalf on the Magpies is 45 cents saved that another SANFL club has to pay.

Memberships and attendance figures don't cut it any more. If they did, South Adelaide would have closed the doors years ago. Viable Gaming and Function Centres is where it's at.

As for the POW, the License is worth $3M+, while the debt is $1.9M. Really bad deal there. I don't know how many times this has to be pointed out but the problem is the revenue split from the Port Club is 75-25 against, leaving no money for renovations. With the Power taking over the pub they can do it up, thus creating another revenue stream by having it a place that people actually want to visit.

[Psyber]

No other club has had to deal with the DISADVANTAGES of the Magpies. Starting from scratch with having to build new training facilities, attract new sponsors and buy a new licensed venue. All in the last decade.

If Port hadn't tried to sell out the SANFL in the first place, and later been given the second licence as a consolation prize by a soft SANFL, it wouldn't have ever become an issue.
Part of the deal Port made to get that consolation prize was to agree to maintain the Magpies in the SANFL - they could have said "No", but it presumably looked like an acceptable deal to them then.
Now they've stuffed it up they think it is reasonable that we all agree to change the deal, presumably because they are more important then the other teams in their own eyes..

Without that deal, the Magpies could have been left at Alberton, and a new composite AFL licensee formed.
And two teams for all South Australians would have been a better result.

[Apachebulldog]

You are wrong Beenreel Central district started from scratch in 1964 and were at a disadvantage for approx 35 years you guys have short memories also the mighty Woodpeckers were at a disadvantage, did Port Adelaide or any other club step in and save them NO they did not.

[GWW]

You are wrong Beenreel Central district started from scratch in 1964 and were at a disadvantage for approx 35 years you guys have short memories also the mighty Woodpeckers were at a disadvantage, did Port Adelaide or any other club step in and save them NO they did not.

So they didn't play in the Reserves comp from 1959 to 1963?

[Apachebulldog]

Thats right reserves and not LEAGUE hello !!!

[dedja]

You are wrong Beenreel Central district started from scratch in 1964 and were at a disadvantage for approx 35 years you guys have short memories also the mighty Woodpeckers were at a disadvantage, did Port Adelaide or any other club step in and save them NO they did not.

Please explain???

[GWW]

Thats right reserves and not LEAGUE hello !!!

Playing Reserves would imply they're not "starting from scratch".

[Apachebulldog]

Quite simple Dedja, Central played their first league game in 1964 they had to firstly gain a supporter base in a predominantly English immigrant area then they had to try and recruit quality players, they then had to play against established power house clubs like Port established 1870 and Norwood, established 1878 Sturt etc clubs who had gained all the experience over their 100 years in the comp in another words these clubs had quite a head start, also these clubs were financially and administratively strong compared to Central.

It has taken over 30 years to become admistratively and financially strong thus creating on field success and new clubrooms so you see that was our disadvantage, however throughout all this adversity and ridicule we never gave up and now are a very successful and premier football club.

So as you can see if we can do it then it is possible for any other club to achieve the same results.

[Apachebulldog]

GWW you are being a bit pedantic my friend !!!

[Barto]

35 years? I remember pretty good crowds in the early 80s at Centrals games.

Of the start up clubs, Centrals did extremely well, it just took them longer than expected to become the dominant force on field. Of course it wont happen but the AFL couldnt go wrong having a look at the Bulldogs for their new expansion clubs.

[dedja]

Quite simple Dedja, Central played their first league game in 1964 they had to firstly gain a supporter base in a predominantly English immigrant area then they had to try and recruit quality players, they then had to play against established power house clubs like Port established 1870 and Norwood, established 1878 Sturt etc clubs who had gained all the experience over their 100 years in the comp in another words these clubs had quite a head start, also these clubs were financially and administratively strong compared to Central.

It has taken over 30 years to become admistratively and financially strong thus creating on field success and new clubrooms so you see that was our disadvantage, however throughout all this adversity and ridicule we never gave up and now are a very successful and premier football club.

So as you can see if we can do it then it is possible for any other club to achieve the same results.

Wrong on a few counts by my reckoning:

- in a growth area with a lot of free room to recruit (unlike Woodville)
- made the prelim in '71 & '72 & minor premiers in '79 so it didn't take long to become successful to some extent
- club actually started in '59 as mentioned
- the club was virually untouched by the advent of the Crows unlike the traditional powerhouse clubs that were decimated
- silver bullet was the introduction of the pokies ... licence to print money in that area

[Apachebulldog]

Barto the Doggies are not good enough for the AFL firstly they will need millions of dollars secondly they have not got a large supporter base thirdly this stae is already sruggling in sustaining two AFL teams.

However i would not mind the Western Bulldogs having a supporter base at Central would be very interesting.