Who was better...

[Squawk]

Bradman or Lindrum?
Makybe Diva or Phar Lap?

[MightyEagles]

Bradman easy.
Phar Lap was great over the week of the Cup.
But Makybe Diva won 3 Cups. Just as great as each other.

[Wedgie]

Bradman easy.
Phar Lap easy.

37 wins out of 51 races for Phar lap (after being unplaced in its first 9 races except for once) meant he was only unplaced once in 42 races!!
You've also got to remember he was killed at 5. Makybe Diva's record till she was 5 isn't even an ants testicle on Phar Laps.
Throw into the equation he set 8 stakes races records.
Makybe Diva failed when she went OS, Phar Lap didn't and I'd imagine its a lot easier for a horce to travel these days.

Here's an article I found about this issue:

Makybe Diva vs Phar Lap
by: Bren O'Brien
Sportal

A week after the accolades were poured on the greatest mare this country has ever seen and the hyperbole has settled down, the argument still persists. Does Makybe Diva deserved to be ranked alongside Phar Lap among Australia's equine immortals?

Comparing champions of any era, equine or human, is always fraught with danger, and there is no way of telling who would have won had Phar Lap been born in the same era as the great mare. The only constant in the 75 years since Big Red won the Melbourne Cup is the same races are being run at the same tracks and the only true guide are the records created on those dates at these venues by these two great horses.

Overall Record:
Lee Freedman was right, Phar Lap didn't win three Melbourne Cups, but Makybe Diva, as good as she was, won less than half her races. Phar Lap won 37 from 51, including 14 on the trot, and was only unplaced once over more than a mile. After placing just once in his first nine races, he progressed through the remaining 42 starts of his career missing the place just once more. The Diva's record stood at 36 races, 15 wins, four seconds and three thirds. Four of those wins came in restricted races at the start of her career.

Two year old:
Makybe Diva: Did not race
Phar Lap: Raced five times, winning once, a Maiden at Rosehill over 1200m.

Three year-old:
Makybe Diva: Did not race

Phar Lap: Stamped himself as the king of the turf with his performances in a stellar three-year-old year in 1929-30. He won 13 of 20 starts in three states, including the AJC and VRC Derbies, the VRC and AJC St Legers and the AJC Plate, over Melbourne Cup winner Nightmarch. He won over distances ranging from 1800 to 3600. He was beaten in the Melbourne Cup, finishing third after pulling hard.

Four-year-old:
Makybe Diva: Started her career in a maiden at Benalla finishing fourth. Won at her next start at Sale over 1600m and went on a run of six straight wins, taking in her first metropolitan win, at Flemington, the Werribee Cup and culminating in a Group 2 success in the Queen Elizabeth Stakes.

Phar Lap: The legend grew larger in Big Red's four-year-old year. Beaten just twice in 16 starts, he re-wrote the record books, winning the Cox Plate and then, winning on all four days of the Flemington carnival, including the Melbourne Cup with 62.5 kgs.

Five year-old:
Makybe Diva: After finishing fourth in the Caulfield Cup and waiting almost a year since her last win, the Diva stunned Flemington by charging home to win the Melbourne Cup with 51kgs. Her only other win from in that year was in the Sydney Cup, becoming the first mare to complete the two-mile double.

Phar Lap: His greatest, and final year, on the race track. Beaten just once in ten starts, carrying the cruel weight of 68kgs in the Melbourne Cup, he won seven weight-for-age events, including the Cox Plate and the Melbourne Stakes. He reserved his greatest effort for his only overseas run. Having boarded a boat across the Pacific and suffered a hoof infection on the way, he defied the heat and some of the United States' greatest horses to win the Agua Caliente. He tragically died after being poisoned on April 5, 1932.

Six year-old:
Makybe Diva: Took her second Melbourne Cup, her only win that spring after a close second in the Caulfield Cup. Became the first mare to win the great race twice, and set what was then a weight-carrying record for a mare, 55.5kgs. In the autumn, she won the Australian Cup in record time and then claimed the 2400m BMW in Sydney. Her only overseas jaunt resulted in two disappointing sevenths in Japan.

Seven-year-old:
Makybe Diva: A stunning spring campaign with four wins in five races. Won the Cox Plate with ease and then lugged 58kgs to victory in the Melbourne Cup to become the first horse ever to win the race three times. She was then retired.

Distance Ranges:
Less than 1600m:
Winner: Too close to call. Phar Lap performed poorly early in his career over the shorter distances, winning a 1200m race as a juvenile, but did win the Futurity over 1400m. Makybe Diva won the 1400m Group 2 Memsie Stakes over 1400m.

1600m-2000m:
Winner: Phar Lap: Big red won 12 races under 2000m, with 11 of them being more than 1600m. They included two Cox Plates, then run over 1900m and a Linlithgow Stakes (1600m) run two days after his Melbourne Cup win. Makybe Diva only won two races in this range, both provincial win early in her career

2000-2600m:
Winner: Phar Lap: He won the Agua Caliente, two Derbys, three Craven Plates and two Melbourne Stakes in this distance range. Makybe Diva won a Cox Plate, an Australian Cup, a Turnbull and a Queen Elizabeth Stakes. She ran fourth and second in two Caulfield Cups.

2600m plus:
Winner: Makybe Diva....just. She won four of five two-mile trips, including three Melbourne Cups. Phar Lap won two St Legers, a Melbourne Cup, two Randwick Plates (3200m) and the 3600m AJC Plate.

Apart from a superior race record and a better adaptability over a variety of distances, Phar Lap's successful international sojourn puts him further clear of the great mare. Her two failures in Japan stick out in her record and will always be the sticking point of any argument which tries to put her on a par with the greatest Australian horse of all-time. There is no doubting the mare is the greatest Melbourne Cup hero in history, but when it comes to overall racetrack heroics, there is no matching Big Red and his enormous heart.

[GWW]

I agree Bradman was better than Lindrum, but i wouldn't totally dismiss Lindrum's achievements. He played a "low profile" sport and most people wouldn't know about his achievements. He certainly rates up there with the all time great Australian sportsmen IMO although obviously not quite up in Bradman's class.

[heater31]

Phar Lap was way better, in the age of no diet supplements and to win on all four days of the carnival this will never be repeated

[am Bays]

I love my cricket and Bradman, but Lindrum easily....

1. never beaten professionally
2. rules changed to curb his influence, Bradman had the rules changed to help him against tactics (bodyline) that diminished his scoring ability
3. arguably killed off his sport as he was so good nobody wanted to play against him
4. to my knowldge his world record break of 4183 set in 1932 still stands...

Mind you I call Billiards, Pool, snooker and Ten Pin bowling recreational pursuits not sports, so in my book Bradman is the better sportsperson....

[Plunge Penguin]

Makybe v Phar Lap is one of those ones you could debate long into the night with equal merit for both...but although I won a fair bit on the mighty mare:

- She never won overseas, and finished down the track in Japan. Now - while the Japan Cup is one of the world's richest, it is about the standard of the Melb Cup as far as QUALITY is concerned. If we were brutally honest, both races are about a Group 3 standard at best.

- Makybe never won on four days of the Cup Carnival (a point someone else raised). She also never had to carry herculian weights to win. 58kg was an absolute gift, given her record in that race and her lead up form in 2005 races. A male horse would have been given about 62.5kg or above with that form.

- Phar Lap won on dirt and grass...as any Pt Augusta or Darwin trainer will tell you, dirt is a MUCH different caper than grass - especially grass that was manufactured completely to suit her on the 2005 Cup Day. Phar Lap never had a track made artificially to suit him.

While Makybe can unquestionally claim to have revived the public's interest in racing over her reign, there cannot be a claim she is better than Big Red. I could think of a number of modern day horses better than her. Take out her 3 Melb Cups, and 12 wins from 36 races isn't exactly legend status. I love her immensely and still get chills up the spine watching the 2005 last 2 furlongs...but better than Phar Lap?

No.