WATSON V SYMONDS all round good guys.

[mal]

c'mon Mal, don't partially quote me

I think I only half agreed

It might be the closest I ever get.

[scoob]

I agree with you mal, i think the lad has got a future. Ive seen him played a bit in england for hampshire and once he gets his confidence up his is a very good player. think he just needs the backing of the selectors and coach and he will prove to be a valuable assest both with the ball and bat.

[mal]

SCOOB spot on

Flintoff and Steve Waugh took a fair while to develope
Waugh saved his career at one stage with a 5 wicket haul v West Indies I reckon.

The critics will say allrounders are bits and pieces players who
do not warrant a place as a speciallist batsmen or bowler in a team
are also correct, BUT there is only a handful of players in history
to average close to 50 with bat and close to 30 with ball.

Flintoff, if he did not bowl, would he be in Englands team as a speciallist batsman?
Would Kallis play just as a bowler?
Would Pollock be picked as a batsman?
Oram as a batsman?

Yeah ok some of these guys are superior in one form of allroundership
Flintoff a great bowler, Kallis a champion batsman, Pollock a star bowler,
but its rare to have both talents equally as good.
Exception is Sir Garfield Sobers.

[blink]

Out of all the all-rounders currently playing, I would say that Flintoff is the best at both bowling and batting.

Interesting to see that he has not bowled himself at all during the Champions Trophy (also bats @ 4)....

Could be struggling with a bowling related injury??

[mal]

Out of all the all-rounders currently playing, I would say that Flintoff is the best at both bowling and batting.

Interesting to see that he has not bowled himself at all during the Champions Trophy (also bats @ 4)....

Could be struggling with a bowling related injury??

If he was purely a batsman I wonder if they would pick him.
They do now and can carry him if need be, But I wonder.
No doubt REB/SYDDOG might know better?

Ian Botham is another classic case, so much like Freddy,but finished
up with a batting average of about 33 ?
Would he have made it as a batsman ?

[scoob]

i think you will find that freddy is coming off an ankle injury and wont bowl til the ashes. Similar bat to symonds, can be devasting when on song. Definitely more valuable as a bowler.

[dinglinga]

one day stats between symonds and watson

overall

Mat Runs HS BatAv 100 50 W BB BowlAv 5w Ct St
Watson 49 627 79 28.50 0 3 48 4/39 32.10 0 12 0
Symonds 151 3785 156 38.62 5 19 117 5/18 36.55 1 67 0


Interesting stat

in tournaments invovling 5 or more teams
Mat Runs HS BatAv 100 50 W BB BowlAv 5w Ct St
Watson 6 47 21 15.66 0 0 6 3/16 18.00 0 0 0
Symonds 14 423 143* 105.75 1 3 4 2/7 58.00 0 5 0

[Rik E Boy]

If Watson is one of the best 6 batsman in Australia, then yes, pick him in the Test matches.

If Watson is one of the best 4 bowlers in Australia, then yes, pick him in the Test matches.

Unfortunately he is neither at this stage and I doubt he ever will be. Australia have been extremely lucky to have Gilchrist who has played the role as the all-rounder in the team, allowing us to play with 7 genuine batsman each game. England are extremely lucky to have Flintoff. A genuine Test cricket all-rounder is almost impossible to find and is so valuable so I'm sure the ACB will be giving Watson every opportunity and hopefully for Australia he can deliver. But first, he needs to be good enough at either batting or bowling to warrant a place.

Sound logic Aerie but it's not quite that simple when our middle order isn't firing properly. We don't have six gun batsmen at the moment so it becomes more tempting to select an allrounder as we will need the additional bowling option to aim to restrict the opposition a little more. The problem is Clarke. Australia have invested heavily in him but he hasn't quite recovered his early brilliance as yet. If he can, then Watto and Symonds are no show.

regards,

REB

[blink]

I think Watto and Roy are a show, even if Clarke finds some of his initial form and flair that had him touted as Australia's next captain and star of the futur.

I still think Hussey should be batting @ 4, and Clarke at five, therefore leaving a place at 6 or 7 (depending on where Gilchrist slots in) open for an all-rounder.

[mal]

I believe WATSON is the missing link from Keith Miller to now.
If WATSON stays fit he may emerge as the allrounder we need..........


There are ifs and buts, yes he must maintain fitness........


Stomach ache now, what next?
Imagine if he played cricket at TD

[mal]

I believe WATSON is the missing link from Keith Miller to now.
If WATSON stays fit he may emerge as the allrounder we need
at test match level, he may well never reciprocate the great Millers
deeds, but he may be the next fast bowling allrounder.

There are ifs and buts, yes he must maintain fitness and must bat
in the top order until he improves against quality spinners at test level.

He batted with limited success for Tasmania until he got promoted to
number3 and then peeled off a few centurys.
He should be given the opportunity to prosper at the highest level.
HODGE and MARTYN must not be played in front of him.
CLARKE must bat 6 and below WATSON.

He must be selected at test level in the ashes, and for the future
when the senior players all retire soon.

SYMONDS is a star one day allrounder and is the answer in that game.
Tests are different, he does balance the side to a fair degree but I
reckon WATSON is the man.

WATSON 3/16 v ENGLAND 21/10/06

50 of 46 balls v INDIA 29/10/O6 his 4th half century as an opener
once again suited to batting higher up, out to a spinner [his achilles heel]
He was in hospital 3 days ago, tonight batted with a runner[injured again]
What a player, will be better in test matches !

[mal]

Cometh the man.
57 not out + 2/11 + man of the match in the Champions final.
Bat the man high as predicted and the results will follow.
Pommies are next.
Is he the next Keith Miller ?

[blink]

You would think that Watson has his foot well & truly in the door for a spot in the 1st Test line-up, most likely:


Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Martyn
Hussey
Gilchrist
Watson
Warne
Lee
Clark
McGrath

[mal]

You would think that Watson has his foot well & truly in the door for a spot in the 1st Test line-up, most likely:


Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Martyn
Hussey
Gilchrist
Watson
Warne
Lee
Clark
McGrath

That looks the line up....Bracken/Clark is the 3rd quick ? Johnson has time on his side.

I would have Michael CLARK not MARTYN in a test team
younger, fitter and better
MARTYN is in the o/d teams only.
WATSON must bat in front of GILCHRIST in my opinion+ should be in the middle order.

[blink]

I would have Clarke in as well Mal - Mitchell Johnson knocking on the door, along with Tait.

MacGill will come into the side for a seamer - most likely Clark, for at least the Sydney & Adelaide tests.

[mal]

I would have Clarke in as well Mal - Mitchell Johnson knocking on the door, along with Tait.

MacGill will come into the side for a seamer - most likely Clark, for at least the Sydney & Adelaide tests.

We agree, just need to wait for S/DOG opinion now.

[mal]

I believe WATSON is the missing link from Keith Miller to now.



________________________________________________________________
If WATSON stays fit he may emerge as the allrounder we need
at test match level, he may well never reciprocate the great Millers
deeds, but he may be the next fast bowling allrounder.

There are ifs and buts, yes he must maintain fitness and must bat
in the top order until he improves against quality spinners at test level.
_________________________________________________________________


He batted with limited success for Tasmania until he got promoted to
number3 and then peeled off a few centurys.
He should be given the opportunity to prosper at the highest level.
HODGE and MARTYN must not be played in front of him.
CLARKE must bat 6 and below WATSON.

He must be selected at test level in the ashes, and for the future
when the senior players all retire soon.

SYMONDS is a star one day allrounder and is the answer in that game.
Tests are different, he does balance the side to a fair degree but I
reckon WATSON is the man.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Problem solved on the allrounder Simmo or Watto

SYMONDS 154* FOURTH TEST
WATSON INJURED

As I predicted one would emerge,
Watto better, Symmo fitter

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Rik E Boy]

Symo better, Watto bitter.

regards,

REB

[mal]

SD world cricket has changed in the last 10 years.
Its played a lot more these days and bowlers are being over worked.
Australia has gotten away with 4 bowlers only because they have been exceptional
Mcgrath, Warne, Gillespie, Lee have been terrific, but they are older and
need to be nursed along, Gillespie suffering in recent times.
A 5th bowler is now a prerequisite of late.
Australia must budget for life after Warne, he does a massive workload by
taking wickets, bowling heeps of overs and also keeping the quicks fresher.
When Warne retires the 5th bowler will be a neccessity.
The 70-80-90's were dominated by fast bowlers.
Now spinners take the most wickets, why?


Also in the last few years something else has crept in as well.
Remember the 3 + 4 day test matches Australia played in , well I have
noticed that tests go into the 5th day more often now.
Thats because of REVENUE, yes curators might be producing flatter
wickets to ensure 5 days of cricket and more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Hence why 5th bowlers are being selected.

Also some time ago teams were made to bowl 90 overs a day[more workload]
In the 80's when West Indies dominated they ambled through about 75 a day.

Hence the need for players like Simmo and Watson at the highest level.

12 Months ago this discussion started
There was some discussion on the viability of a batting allrounder in the AU test team.
12 months later with Warnnnny and Oooooh Ahhh retired I think we can all agree the 5th bowler
is now an essential.
I had thought Watto or Roy, Im glad one of them has made thier mark.

WATTO
Injuries have killed his progress, does dominate in batting in International o/d games
He finished with an average of 146 in the Carribean.
Bowling has disintigrated, batting is and always will be his forte
Well behind a spot in tests these days


HOPES
Wildcard who makes the most of his abilities in the o/d arena
A longshot for Tests at some stage ?

NOFFKE
A bowling allrounder and cant rely on his good p/cup batting at test level
Tests? If a couple of quicks get injured yes, perfect for overseas tours

MJ
A wildcard as a genuine test allrounder perhaps?

SYMONDS
The batting allrounder the AU test team needs
Is without doubt in the last 12 months the right handed Gary Sobers
Arguably the most valuable and talented allround cricketer we could ever see in our lifetimes
He only has to average about 35 with the bat
His bowling fielding is worth an extra 15 runs to his batting average


QUESTION
The people in various other posts 12 months ago + this topic were against or not convinced that
the Australian Test team needed a batting allrounder
Their thoughts now ?

[Rik E Boy]

What Australia might need is Symonds AND Watson. While I've had a lot of fun at Watto's expense this summer I would really like to be proven wrong by him and for Watson to develop his bowling in particular to the point when he can take his place in the team as a bowling allrounder. The less effective our spin options are the more we need an allrounder in the side.

Watson does have ability but I really doubt whether we will ever get the chance to see it consistently at the top level. I never mind being proven wrong by a guy who goes on and performs for Australia..after all, that is what we want our top cricketers to do.

regards,

REB