Changes to the Salary Cap

[Chambo100]

What does the last paragraph mean?

Does that mean half of the $565K money distributed, must be spent on the Under 18 program and things like it?

Is this a subtle way of pushing the focus on the U18 comp up the ladder of importance? Will the League competition become subserviant to the need to preserve the Under 18 development at all costs.

If so, this is obviously something the AFL will be licking their lips over.

Ie: Reduce the importance of the SANFL league competition and promote much heavier focus on the U18 comp.

I get the overwhelming feeling that we have been shafted again.

As I said on another thread here, I really want to know the position of each club Director (delegate) to the SANFL.

The report said the sanfl commission consulted them, but what was their position and did they adopt it???

All worthy questions, that demand an answer.

[Wedgie]

Further reduction on reserves players is a shocking decision, might as well as can the reserves, only have U18s before the league and bend over and lube up for the AFL while we're at it.
Its hard enough getting fringe/ressies players now with the big bucks being offered in the country and ammos.
Hopefully the clubs ignore this otherwise the comp will be completely stuffed.

The commissoin has lost the plot completley, hopefully this is the final straw for the clubs to get rid of them.

[redandblack]

I think that's a classic example of basing an argument on an incorrect assumption, Chambo.

Also, the 'end-of-the SANFL'ers' are really stretching it trying to find much in this and the Reserves payments.

[dedja]

The commissoin has lost the plot completley, hopefully this is the final straw for the clubs to get rid of them.

LOL, the clubs appoint the commissioners and they are mostly SANFL identities from the clubs themselves.

Jamie Coppins
Phil Gallagher
David Shipway
Dion McCaffrie
Brian Cunningham
Peter Carey

and then Rod Payze and Leigh Whicker from the SANFL.

How are they then non representative of the SANFL clubs?

[Wedgie]

The commissoin has lost the plot completley, hopefully this is the final straw for the clubs to get rid of them.

LOL, the clubs appoint the commissioners and they are mostly SANFL identities from the clubs themselves.

Jamie Coppins
Phil Gallagher
David Shipway
Dion McCaffrie
Brian Cunningham
Peter Carey

and then Rod Payze and Leigh Whicker from the SANFL.

How are they then non representative of the SANFL clubs?

Because they're more interested in how much money they can lay out to Port or how hot the chips are for Crows supporters. Be interesting to see the total number of SANFL games all of those commissioners have been to recently. Get rid of them, get the clubs to run the SANFL, the commissioners can serve hotdogs at Football Park.

Most of these reserves players get paid a pittance now, they put in almost as much time as AFL players into training, to cut their payments is an absolute disgrace and shows these clowns have absolutely no idea. The SANFL players should get some sort of players union involved too.

Be nice to get someone under the Age of 50 involved instead of these dinosaurs too.

[Chambo100]

I think that's a classic example of basing an argument on an incorrect assumption, Chambo.

Also, the 'end-of-the SANFL'ers' are really stretching it trying to find much in this and the Reserves payments.

My post is mainly seeking answers to questions.
Maybe my mis-givings are from an incorrect angle, but that is why more information is essential. At present there has been no detailed summary on why this position has been taken, nor what each club wants.

They can dumb down this decision as much as they like, but that just short changes us all. Maybe I am being too negative, but without a detailed commentary, I get suspicious.

[Chambo100]

The commissoin has lost the plot completley, hopefully this is the final straw for the clubs to get rid of them.

LOL, the clubs appoint the commissioners and they are mostly SANFL identities from the clubs themselves.

Jamie Coppins
Phil Gallagher
David Shipway
Dion McCaffrie
Brian Cunningham
Peter Carey

and then Rod Payze and Leigh Whicker from the SANFL.

How are they then non representative of the SANFL clubs?

They may be from clubs, but they don't represent the clubs as commissioners. They are supposed to run footy as an independent impartial body. That is why they exist in the first place.

However, the League Directors who appoint the commission, are all (but one of them) from the clubs. It is reasonable to assume, that they would put their club's position forward when matters are discussed.

[redandblack]

There has only been a Reserves cap for a few years now, I think. That means the Commission actually allowed for an increase in their payments from the $50 a game or so they got before that, so the facts don't fit your argument.

The salary cap limits haven't changed all that much, just that some of the 'rort' areas have been removed. As for the Commission only being interested in the AFL, that might suit your prejudices, but there's not much fact in this to back up such a weak argument.

I'd give a big tick to the Commission and Darren Chandler on this one. If a club can't exist on 8 new imports after this year, then nothing will help them.

Chambo, I appreciate that you were only asking questions, but you've made up your mind regardless of the answers. I hope I can get some time tomorrow to try to answer your questions as well as I can.

[dedja]

The commissoin has lost the plot completley, hopefully this is the final straw for the clubs to get rid of them.

LOL, the clubs appoint the commissioners and they are mostly SANFL identities from the clubs themselves.

Jamie Coppins
Phil Gallagher
David Shipway
Dion McCaffrie
Brian Cunningham
Peter Carey

and then Rod Payze and Leigh Whicker from the SANFL.

How are they then non representative of the SANFL clubs?

They may be from clubs, but they don't represent the clubs as commissioners. They are supposed to run footy as an independent impartial body. That is why they exist in the first place.

However, the League Directors who appoint the commission, are all (but one of them) from the clubs. It is reasonable to assume, that they would put their club's position forward when matters are discussed.

Exactly right ... is there a problem with the system then? Personally I think not, but others may disagree.

[FEUNG]

Guys wake up!The STANDARD WILL DROP! Do not buy the bullshit.The quality is not there in the junior level.All the talented players are drafted in to the AFL.We are going to have a second rate comp.This is a ploy by the AFL to protect the VFL clubs.The quality drops ,then the crowds drop, then you have a DEAD COMPETITION.The SANFL has sold itself to the AFL.Weak.!

[Chambo100]

Chambo, I appreciate that you were only asking questions, but you've made up your mind regardless of the answers. I hope I can get some time tomorrow to try to answer your questions as well as I can.

No I haven't.
But at the moment I can only comment on what I may think it means.
I stress again, we need to know much more about the arguments put forward, the clubs' positions. You can't determine any of that from the press release ie: the dumbed-down version.

I am happy to be pleasantly surprised that this is the way forward, if the arguments can be properly detailed.

[dedja]

The commissoin has lost the plot completley, hopefully this is the final straw for the clubs to get rid of them.

LOL, the clubs appoint the commissioners and they are mostly SANFL identities from the clubs themselves.

Jamie Coppins
Phil Gallagher
David Shipway
Dion McCaffrie
Brian Cunningham
Peter Carey

and then Rod Payze and Leigh Whicker from the SANFL.

How are they then non representative of the SANFL clubs?

Because they're more interested in how much money they can lay out to Port or how hot the chips are for Crows supporters. Be interesting to see the total number of SANFL games all of those commissioners have been to recently. Get rid of them, get the clubs to run the SANFL, the commissioners can serve hotdogs at Football Park.

Most of these reserves players get paid a pittance now, they put in almost as much time as AFL players into training, to cut their payments is an absolute disgrace and shows these clowns have absolutely no idea. The SANFL players should get some sort of players union involved too.

Be nice to get someone under the Age of 50 involved instead of these dinosaurs too.

LOL, there's definitely a point of view, but maybe it's just me but I can't see a rational argument anywhere.

That's OK, play on ...

[am Bays]

Chambo you will find that a lot of SANFL distribution, which includes on-funding from the AFL, comes with caveats on it.

For example the development officer positions the clubs manage are funded by the SANFL. Clubs also get subsidies as I understand it for the CEO and other admin positions, money also has to be spent on development programs.

I don't know the exact percentage of the SANFL distribution, which the clubs can spend arbitarily but I suspect it is under half.

[topsywaldron]

The salary cap limits haven't changed all that much.

It's a reduction of more than 10% in real terms.

I'd call that 'much'.

[Wedgie]

The salary cap limits haven't changed all that much.

It's a reduction of more than 10% in real terms.

I'd call that 'much'.

Agreed, throw into the mix the allowances, the veteran's payments, etc and you're looking at well over 25% reduction in real terms all up.
My god, if you take away 25% of the talent of what is being played this year Div 4 of the ammos or B grade SFL will look attractive.

[redandblack]

Yes, but it's taken out the areas which some clubs have been rorting and is still a pretty healthy amount, especially compared to a few years ago and especially taking into account the financial position of most clubs.

As for the standard dropping away to nothing, a club with a host of imports who were signed before last year will still be able to add eight imports by 2011. With natural attrition, that's plenty of room to move. No club would currently have to delist a player to comply, so how will the standard drop from what's there now?

Wedgie, I trust Topsy's maths far more than yours, with good reason. Back to the calculator and try again.

[topsywaldron]

Wedgie, I trust Topsy's maths far more than yours, with good reason. Back to the calculator and try again.

That's why I'm in charge of salary cap management at Norwood.

[redandblack]

Wedgie, I trust Topsy's maths far more than yours, with good reason. Back to the calculator and try again.

That's why I'm in charge of salary cap management at Norwood.

Mate, I thought you'd give me credit for not answering your first post with the obvious cheap shot

I'll work out the exact percentage cut tomorrow, but I'd think 10% would be about the mark if all concessions for veterans and player/coaches had been taken up.

[topsywaldron]

My main concern with this move, which incidentally wasn't supported by all clubs just a 'majority', is that next time pressure comes to drop the cap or restrict 'imports' it'll get easier and easier for the Commission to do as it's been done before. By chipping away at the standard and the status of the SANFL it sets us on a slippery slope towards the WAFL or the VFL as barely noticeable feeder leagues for the AFL.

That this has happened in a year where the SANFL has bailed out the comically inept and criminally mismanaged Port Power is enough to make you weep.

[Dirko]

Peter Carey

Be interesting to see the total number of SANFL games all of those commissioners have been to recently.

Super is at every Glenelg home game pending his business requirements so just about all of 'em. Is that enough ?