Challenge Finals

[csbowes]

Does anyone know the origins of the Challenge Finals that were played around 1900-1930ish in the SANFL?

From the records I can see that the minor premier was essentially given two chances at the Grand Final if they made it and if they didn't make the Grand Final, they were then allowed to play a second Grand Final of sorts against the team that won the Grand Final, this would then decide who was the premiers. Obviously the team that won this second Grand Final, this Challenge Final, was then declared premiers, but I'm wondering what the theory or rule was behind this?

What I mean is, how was it decided that this was a good idea? Was it a rule the league brought in, did they copy it from somewhere, was there any thought in it at all, does anyone know?

For teams like North Adelaide, it makes a big difference, as I think if the Challenge Finals weren't played, they would have 16 flags at this stage, rather than 13, so they'd be well clear of Sturt.

[Wedgie]

Just on that I thought Id look in this years media guide to see the details but gave up after seeing it had the same scores for the Final and Challenge Final from 1910 to 1914 with the same results ( Port beating Sturt) even though West were the premiers for some of those years.
I'll wait till I can get home and refernce my stats book from the early 2000s by Dion Haymsn to see what actually happened.

[csbowes]

Just on that I thought Id look in this years media guide to see the details but gave up after seeing it had the same scores for the Final and Challenge Final from 1910 to 1914 with the same results ( Port beating Sturt) even though West were the premiers for some of those years.
I'll wait till I can get home and refernce my stats book from the early 2000s by Dion Haymsn to see what actually happened.

These were the results of the Grand Finals that DID NOT determine the premier...

1930 PGF Port Adelaide 13 12 90 d Sturt 8 8 56
1929 PGF Port Adelaide 10 10 70 d West Adelaide 6 13 49
1928 PGF Norwood 13 17 95 d West Adelaide 11 7 73
1927 PGF North Adelaide 8 3 51 d West Adelaide 6 11 47
1926 PGF North Adelaide 11 11 77 d Norwood 10 8 68
1924 PGF Sturt 10 3 63 d Norwood 6 13 49
1921 PGF Norwood 5 12 42 d South Adelaide 4 13 37
1919 PGF R North Adelaide 6 2 38 d West Torrens 5 3 33
1919 PGF North Adelaide 2 3 15 drew West Torrens 2 3 15
1915 PGF Sturt 7 3 45 d West Adelaide 2 13 25
1912 PGF West Adelaide 9 9 63 d Port Adelaide 6 10 46
1911 PGF West Adelaide 7 11 53 d Port Adelaide 4 11 35
1910 PGF Port Adelaide 6 13 49 d Sturt 6 9 45
1909 PGF West Adelaide 8 18 66 d Norwood 5 8 38
1908 PGF West Adelaide 6 15 51 d Norwood 3 6 24
1907 PGF Norwood 7 14 56 d Port Adelaide 6 6 42
1906 PGF North Adelaide 10 7 67 d Norwood 5 4 34
1904 PGF Norwood 3 13 31 d South Adelaide 3 10 28
1903 PGF South Adelaide 3 6 24 d Port Adelaide 2 4 16

[csbowes]

The premiers were decided in these Challenge Finals...

1930 GF North Adelaide 9 13 67 d Port Adelaide 9 9 63
1929 GF Norwood 16 14 110 d Port Adelaide 10 9 69
1928 GF Port Adelaide 15 14 104 d Norwood 7 14 56
1927 GF West Adelaide 10 11 71 d North Adelaide 8 10 58
1926 GF Sturt 9 10 64 d North Adelaide 7 9 51
1924 GF West Torrens 9 12 66 d Sturt 8 10 58
1921 GF Port Adelaide 4 8 32 d Norwood 3 6 24
1919 GF R Sturt 3 5 23 d North Adelaide 2 6 18
1919 GF Sturt 5 9 39 drew North Adelaide 5 9 39
1915 GF Sturt 6 10 46 d Port Adelaide 4 10 34
1912 GF West Adelaide 6 10 46 d Port Adelaide 5 2 32
1911 GF West Adelaide 7 9 51 d Port Adelaide 6 10 46
1910 GF Port Adelaide 8 12 60 d Sturt 5 11 41
1909 GF West Adelaide 7 17 59 d Port Adelaide 6 5 41
1908 GF West Adelaide 7 10 52 d Norwood 6 13 49
1907 GF Norwood 8 7 55 d Port Adelaide 3 9 27
1906 GF Port Adelaide 8 12 60 d North Adelaide 5 9 39
1904 GF Norwood 9 8 62 d Port Adelaide 8 10 58

[spell_check]

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=12386

These were the finals systems prior to the "Argus System". Supposedly no-one was able to come up with a better system until the one introduced in 1931.

As a minor premier under the Argus System, you had the choice of losing the semi final and having an extra week off, or winning and saving that double chance for the Final.