Brian Adamson at Norwood and in court

[robranosgod]

a) How was he received by the players initially, given the massive push to get him there, and then upon him departing after only 20 games?

a) I was never aware of any reluctance to accept Brian Adamson. In that era we picked up a number of players from other leagues and SANFL clubs, Von Vertouch, Nunan, Dillon, Parke, Phillis, etc, Adamson was just another recruit.

My memory was the great expection waiting to see him play in a Norwood jumper. You much remember that 5 months had passed from the time he arrived in Adelaide to the time he was finally allowed to play. In the interim, he harbored thoughts of returning to WA but elected to stay, which to me indicates he was happy with the environment at Norwood.

My understanding is Adamson's situation was similar to circumstances that saw Darren Jarman return to Adelaide from Hawthorn. They were both happy to stay where they were, but their wives wanted to return to their home states for various reasons. I think Adamson's wife was in the legal profession and received an excellent offer to return home.

I recall a lot of disappointment in view of the effort made to get him to Norwood in the first place, but life goes on. I think Adamson was disappointed as well. If you recall, that was around the time we appointed Neil Balme as coach, and there was a mass exodus of players from the club such as Neil Craig to Sturt, retirements etc, so there wasn't a lot of focus just on Adamson. Norwood had to start all over again.

Adamson was certainly accepted by everyone at Norwood after the 1978 Grand Final. I believe he kicked 5 goals from Centre Half Forward in their famous one point win.

Memories do play tricks, but I recall thinking that he was the most influential player on the gorund and that one could understand how Norwood went to such lengths to get him across. I honestly don't remember him at all after the 1978 Grand Final.

[Jimmy_041]

Best footballer I ever saw

We can always buy an argument with such comments, but in terms of pure skill I rate Carman and Darren Jarman as the best two I've seen.

He was a classic CHF - the hardest position on the field, and on his day, would absolutely dominate a game

You are right about the second rate opposition, and once he got the reputation, they knew they could get him off his game.

1975 - he nearly won the Brownow even though he missed matches with a broken foot (?)

Somewhere, I have a book with his game by game votes - it was unbelievable

[Jimmy_041]

I remembered reading this on Big Footy

The first time I heard of the name Phil Carman it was in the early 70s in the context of some footballer who came from Edenhope, played in the SANFL but refused to come over to Victoria to play even though he was tied to Collingwood after a short pre-season stint as a teenager. Didn’t think too much of him as I had heard it all before. These were players who would never come over (read Barrie Robran) or needed a huge cash inducement to come over and invariably they were blonde and overrated (read Peter Eakins).

It came to be that in June 1974 Phil Carman was selected to play for South Australia against Victoria at the SCG where Len Thompson was captain of the team and Neil Mann was the coach of Victoria. This game was played on a Sunday which happened to be the day after John Greening's comeback game against Richmond at the MCG where we walloped the Tigers by 69 points and Bill Picken took the mark of the year and Greening was arguably B.O.G. .

Came the Sunday and we had a direct telecast of the match on the TV. Carman blitzed (I think on Geoff Southby but I may be wrong) and I think kicked 4 goals from full forward and South Australia pushed Victoria pretty hard.

He impressed the Collingwood people so much that they then pulled out all stops to get him over for 1975. Everyone thought that it was too late for Carman to come over as he would be 24 years of age when he started his League career.

He did arrive with huge fanfare. We had a new coach in Murray Weideman and some young players coming through such as Peter Moore and John Dellamarta. Robert Hyde was playing like a champion and commenced the year in Copeland form until Leigh Matthews caused Hyde to do his cruciate ligaments a la Geoff Raines on Paul Salmon and Hyde missed the last 12 or so games of the year.

Carman started his Collingwood career against South Melbourne at Vic Park in the rain. All Magpie eyes were scrutinizing his every move as there was much hype surrounding him. Did a couple of nice things but nothing over the top but looked like a balanced player.

The next game was against Carlton. We were thrashed but one of our best was Carman and he took a little bit of a speccy in front of the old wooden stand. Still no raptures.

This was until we meandered to the R3 game against Fitzroy at the Junction Oval. Carman played CHF that day. There was a strong wind blowing to the scoreboard end. Carman dominated the game in a way I had never seen a Collingwood CHF dominate in my football watching life up to that day. He kicked 6 goals from CHF and we won by two points coming home against the wind in a display that had class stamped all over it. We got our first inkling we had something special here.

He continued to play good football so much so that he was selected to represent Victoria in the State Carnival which was played on two week ends about 6 weeks apart. In this game Carman played against SA at VFL Park and was dominating until he broke his foot in the second quarter and was to miss six weeks of football. It was to prove a very costly injury as he ended coming third in the Brownlow Medal that year in a year when both umpired awarded individual votes and the winner won with 48 votes (Gary Dempsey).

Collingwood were a little fragile in 1975 and we copped a whole lot of injuries during June including Carman, Hyde, and Peter McKenna who in the Queens Birthday game v. Melbourne went goalless for the first time in 120 games and we went down to Melbourne who were not a very strong team. Injuries had taken their toll the week before against Hawthorn (which was Graeme Anderson's first game) and even Lou Richards quipped when previewing the Melbourne game and looking at the number of injuries we had, he had seen better sides hanging in the Johnston Street Butcher shop he use to visit.

McKenna was dropped and then hurt his kidneys in the Reserves v South at VFL Park the following week and was never to play another game apart from three practice matches in 1977 for the Pies again.

Carman eventually came back but it took him some time to get into some form. The Pies came good towards the end of the season and had a reasonable win against Essendon in R19 where Carman seemed to get some rhythm back and where he wore his white boots for the firsts time. We were fighting St. Kilda for a spot in the finals and were to play them the following week at Moorabbin in what was to be the equivalent of an eight point game.

I stood behind the South Road end goals and watched one of the most exciting game I have the privilege of witnessing. It was a high scoring entertaining affair with the Saints kicking 9 goals to our 5 in the opening quarter. We were from that point on 4 goals down most of the day. Carman who again wore his white boots was playing well and had 5 goals to three quarter time. George Young was playing almost as well as FF for the Saints. He ended the day with 8 goals.

In the last quarter we came home to the South Road end. It was the most amazing quarter of football I have seen the Pies play. We kicked 11 goals for the quarter with Carman booting 6. He had Barry Lawrence mesmerized. Every tine the ball came down to Carman during that quarter the Collingwood crowd became frenzied and on each occasion he won the ball and invariably it ended up as a goal for Collingwood. We turned a 23 point deficit to a 19 pot win 156 - 137.

There was no video in those days so I have about three minutes off highlight tape of the TV on a super 8 film camera.

From that point on the whole football world knew about Phil Carman.

We then went on to defeat Hawthorn in the wet in R21 and scraped in against Melbourne to win our place in the five. We were unlucky to lose against Richmond in the EF by 4 points after being 32 points down at half time. Bill Picken who had been switched to CHB only 4 weeks earlier dominated the game for the Pies even with torn shoulder ligaments and stamped himself as a great finals player of the future.

Everything was optimistic for 1976 after our spirited performances in 1975 but it was not to be. Weideman was a lazy coach. Ern Clarke was not a good president. They clashed. There was trouble within the club. Wayne Richardson lost the captaincy with Tuddenham's return, the Richardsons were suspended by the club after being dropped and not playing in the seconds against Hawthorn in R3. Carman was seen as being aloof by the rest of the players (which he was) and these comments about him would haunt him for the rest of his career. It must have had something to do with his genius that he had a major flaw, and one I am sure he regrets today.

We won the spoon with a record highest number of wins for a wooden spoon team of 6. We weren’t really a wooden spoon team but for he trouble within the club.

Came 1977 with a few handy additions. Tom Hafey as coach, Kevin Worthington, Stan Magro and Ricky Barham.

Tuddy played the first two games but retired at the age of 34. John Greening wet to Port Melbourne after losing his enthusiasm for the elite level (you arsehole Jim O’Dea).

We climbed to the top of the ladder with Carman dominating at CHF, Rene Kink being a roving FF and Peter Moore being the big goal kicker. How great it would have been if we hadn’t gotten rid of Peter McKenna and he was in that forward line too.

We had a quiet start until we thrashed Carlton at Waverley by 102 points a Moor kicked his first bag. (I have highlights of this game on super 8 too).

Carman was the lynchpin of our game with many helpers. But it all revolved around his mercurial ability. He took lots of pressure off other players. He was kicking goals of the day, taking marks of the day, having a scuffle or two but generally doing a fantastic job for the Pies.

Come the finals and he got us going with the first two goals of the 2SF v Hawthorn which was seen as a GF preview. He then did the unthinkable and clocked Michael Tuck for no reason in the Q1. He was a goner. He disappeared from the game until the last quarter when he again came to the fore and won the game for the Pies in a 2 point victory.

Would he be allowed to play in the GF when the Hawks defeated North in the PF as expected? No, he go two weeks and to everyone’s surprise North won their way through to the GF very convincingly.

We all know if Carman had played we would have won the flag. He didn’t and we drew. Carman appealed his suspension to see if he could play in the Replay on the basis that the suspension was for one GF and not 2 GFs. No dice.

North won and Tom Hafey never forgave Carman. He bagged him a t sportsman’s nights saying he cost us the flag with a stupid selfish act.

There was bad blood between Hafey and Carman which spilt over into the 1978 season where we again made the finals but were very inconsistent.

Carman had some very good games and some very bad games. He missed the game against Essendon at Windy Hill supposedly injured but dropped for disciplinary reason. Even his then wife Betty Carman weighed into the dispute and had a go at Hafey in the media.

They patched things up (sort of) leading up to the finals and Carman was picked on the bench for the QF where we were creamed by Hawthorn. He cam on half way thru the second quarter and tried to revive us but it was all too late.

He tore Carlton a new one in the 1SF and was one of our best players as well as sucking in a number of players such as Wayne Harmes.

But he again flopped in the PF where we lost to North by two goals. He was part of the clean out after that game along with Thompson and Max Richardson. We traded him to Melbourne with Wayne Gordon and John Dellamarta for Ross Brewer.

He was an enigma. He was mercurial. He was at times unstoppable and times so stupid.

[dedja]

AH, to add to the comments about Fabulous Phil's attitude, as you stated, he didn't get grief from the great SANFL players of the era, but also because I think he respected them and the challenge of playing against them, whilst he didn't have the same respect for the lesser tiers and for some reason the niggles would get to him every now and again.

The other thing (mainly VFL I would say) is that he was so professional, that he would do a lot of extra self training and running, whilst the others would just turn up to team training and have a few beers after.

I've heard stories that he would just walk off the training track early (VFL) when he felt like it because he had already done much more than the rest of the team ... this apparently didn't go down too well as you could imagine.

I wouldn't say he was arrogant, but he had that self belief and professionalism that made him supremely confident of his ability on the field ... and his VFL coaches had not idea how to handle him.

There wouldn't be many other players in history that had the impact that he did in 100 odd VFL games (and 50 odd? for Norwood), and he may have just been one of the greatest players of all time if only he ...

As I stated before he was just ahead of his time and regardless of his failures should be rightly acknowledged for the brilliant things he could do on the field ... and things like pushing Cornsey's face into the mud at the Parade.

[Psyber]

My wife knew Phil Carman when he played for Norwood, and she ran the sound and lighting for the Redlegs Disco.
She described him as gentlemanly, and a little separated from other players by his better manners and behaviour - totally different off field from on.

[Leaping Lindner]

I remembered reading this on Big Footy

...............

He impressed the Collingwood people so much that they then pulled out all stops to get him over for 1975. Everyone thought that it was too late for Carman to come over as he would be 24 years of age when he started his League career.
.

What he playing at Norwood? Mini-League?
Bloody Victorians can't see past Nhill.

[Adelaide Hawk]

I remembered reading this on Big Footy

...............

He impressed the Collingwood people so much that they then pulled out all stops to get him over for 1975. Everyone thought that it was too late for Carman to come over as he would be 24 years of age when he started his League career.
.

What he playing at Norwood? Mini-League?
Bloody Victorians can't see past Nhill.

Haha!! Yes, it was a very good post but a couple of things did amuse me. As you say, the part about starting a league career at 24, and the point about his reluctance to play for Collingwood. I've covered that in an earlier post, but all I'll add is if Collingwood didn't play such hard ball with him in the beginning and just allowed him to play for Norwood, they may have picked him up at 22 rather than 24.

The part I didn't like was the part about Hafey bagging him in public, saying he lost them the GF. That's merely speculation, not fact, and IMHO it's inexcusable for a coach to single one player out like that.

[Adelaide Hawk]

I wouldn't say he was arrogant, but he had that self belief and professionalism that made him supremely confident of his ability on the field ... and his VFL coaches had not idea how to handle him.

That's an interesting point. A lot of coaches used the rant and rave approach back then, some resorting to humiliation tactics, and I imagine Carman may not have responded to that style. I know Robert Oatey had no problems with Carman whatsoever. Maybe he treated him like an adult.

I used to play under a coach who was a real pig. He'd always be belittling players and walking around saying things like "I'm busting MY guts out there, why isn't anyone helping me?" .. etc. I just used to tune out. I preferred analytical and tactical coaches who wanted to talk about the game. That's probably why I gave away footy and stuck to basketball I guess. The Killigrew "run through brick walls" approach never worked on me either

[Adelaide Hawk]

Adamson was certainly accepted by everyone at Norwood after the 1978 Grand Final. I believe he kicked 5 goals from Centre Half Forward in their famous one point win.

Memories do play tricks, but I recall thinking that he was the most influential player on the gorund and that one could understand how Norwood went to such lengths to get him across. I honestly don't remember him at all after the 1978 Grand Final.

He missed the first half of the 1979 season through injury but topped off the year with 31 goals from 12 games, including 24 goals from his final 5 games: 4 v Glenelg in round 20, 6 v Port (round 21), 8 v Sturt (round 22), then 2 v Woodville (IF) and 4 v South (1st Semi).

He appeared to enjoy playing Sturt most of all, kicking 16 goals in 4 games against the Blues.

[Adelaide Hawk]

Phil Carman's playing record:
Norwood: 58 games, 89 goals from 1970 & 1972-74
South Australia: 4 games, 11 goals
Collingwood: 67 games, 141 goals
Melbourne: 11 games, 23 goals
Essendon: 10 games, 12 goals
North Melbourne: 13 games, 27 goals

He also played at least 1 game for Victoria in 1975, the one in which he injured his foot and almost certainly lost him the 1975 Brownlow Medal.

[Adelaide Hawk]

He was a classic CHF - the hardest position on the field, and on his day, would absolutely dominate a game

He certainly was a CHF at Collingwood, but the funny part was he rarely played CHF at Norwood because Ross Dillon was there at the time. He played mainly CHB, Centre, and Ruck Rover for the Legs.

[Sojourner]

Has Phil Carman ever been seriously considered for a coaching role at Norwood?

[mal]

Brian Adamson I reckon eventually won a court case
Restraint of Trade was the verdict ?

I recall seeing him in his first game
I saw this long frizzy haired guy with legs like chicken drumsticks
I had thought he was a skinny weakling who surely would not make the grade

How wronggggggggg I was

Phil Carman played his first game at Norwood Oval
I had thought it was v PA but others tell me it was ST

From memory his name was not even in the budget ???
We asked people who he was, nobody could tell us

Whatta debut it was

[Adelaide Hawk]

Phil Carman played his first game at Norwood Oval
I had thought it was v PA but others tell me it was ST

From memory his name was not even in the budget ???
We asked people who he was, nobody could tell us

Whatta debut it was

Yes Mal, it was definitely against Port Adelaide, round 1 1970 at the Parade. You are correct, his name wasn't in the budget. That's because his AFC clearance didn't land on Norwood's table until the Friday afternoon before the game.

Peter Mulraney was initially selected at CHB. However, HIS clearance did not come through in time, so they swapped Mulraney for Carman.

I didn't know about this when I turned up to watch the game, and I remember thinking what a great player Mulraney was ... until someone informed me his name was Phil Carman.

Port Adelaide tried everyone at CHF that day, players including Russell Ebert and Peter Woite, but Carman beat them all. He was magificent that day, and it was the best debut I've ever seen.

[Jimmy_041]

Phil Carman played his first game at Norwood Oval
I had thought it was v PA but others tell me it was ST

From memory his name was not even in the budget ???
We asked people who he was, nobody could tell us

Whatta debut it was

Yes Mal, it was definitely against Port Adelaide, round 1 1970 at the Parade. You are correct, his name wasn't in the budget. That's because his AFC clearance didn't land on Norwood's table until the Friday afternoon before the game.

Peter Mulraney was initially selected at CHB. However, HIS clearance did not come through in time, so they swapped Mulraney for Carman.

I didn't know about this when I turned up to watch the game, and I remember thinking what a great player Mulraney was ... until someone informed me his name was Phil Carman.

Port Adelaide tried everyone at CHF that day, players including Russell Ebert and Peter Woite, but Carman beat them all. He was magificent that day, and it was the best debut I've ever seen.

AH - you have an amazing memory

Have to tell you a funny story - I was at CBCOC V PAOC yesterday, and believe it or not, someone brought up Phil Carman and his career. I reeled off all of the stats and stories and the 4 blokes I was with just went

[Adelaide Hawk]

Have to tell you a funny story - I was at CBCOC V PAOC yesterday, and believe it or not, someone brought up Phil Carman and his career. I reeled off all of the stats and stories and the 4 blokes I was with just went

Haha!! Good for you Jimmy

I absolutely loved those days, the footy was so raw it was brilliant, not like the basketball-rugby style we see today. I remember most games back then as if they were played yesterday.

[mal]

Have to tell you a funny story - I was at CBCOC V PAOC yesterday, and believe it or not, someone brought up Phil Carman and his career. I reeled off all of the stats and stories and the 4 blokes I was with just went

Haha!! Good for you Jimmy

I absolutely loved those days, the footy was so raw it was brilliant, not like the basketball-rugby style we see today. I remember most games back then as if they were played yesterday.

And the current Norwood players are a hybrid of those late 60s early 70s breed
No evolving at all , still handball happy
Robert Oatey hazza lot to answer for


For those that cant recall CARMAN/ADAMSON
Modern day equivalents

CARMAN
temperament of Barry HALL
marking ability of Wayne CAREY
skill of Paul ROOS

ADAMSON
built like and plays like Justin WESTOFF
but a bit more flashy

[Jimmy_041]

Robert Oatey was a teacher and the footy coach at Kings as well

[dedja]

I can't remember when Kings became Pembroke ... mid '70s was it?

[Adelaide Hawk]

I can't remember when Kings became Pembroke ... mid '70s was it?

Yes, it was 1974 when the school became co-educational. Kings College merged with Girton Girls School, so they changed the name to Pembroke School. Not sure why, Kings College sounded much classier

"Pembroke" came from some school or college in Cambridge ... that's all I know.