The Millions The AFL Spend!

[Benchwarmer]

A though to ponder:

Every dollar spent (i.e. wasted) by the AFL on the dubious expansion of the league to accommodate the Gold Coast region (which already have a successful NRL club and the A-League team Gold Coast United who have solid membership for a team yet to play and good corporate money locked in) and the lost cause that is West Sydney, could have benefited grass roots footy and been used to greater effect for the sport's future.

Instead of, let's say, $5 million being given to West Sydney, the AFL could have given 2,500 clubs at senior and junior levels nationwide $2000 each to improve facilities, buy equipment or even buy a rainwater tank to catch badly needed rain water in order to benefit the game from Auskick level upwards.

Wouldn't that be better than a war chest to lure 30-year old footballers to footballing backwaters which are bound to be money pits for the AFL?

Look at some of the ovals in your area and I am sure that you will come up with the right answer to that question.

[Hondo]

They would say that the $5m spent now on maintenance would be lost forever once spent.

However, $5m invested in the new, growth markets will return much > than $5m in the long run, so football in this country is actually better off.

It's like choosing to spend $5K on repainting your house now or investing it and having $25K in 5 years time. Then you can paint your house then for $7K and you're $18K in front and you can then re-roof or re-pave, etc.

We all assume that Gold Coast and West Sydney will be failures but, to be honest, we are all guessing based on off-the-cuff opinions. I assume some hard, decent number crunching has been done (the AFL's financiers would insist on it) and that they see it as better for the league in the long run. If you compare the current financial health of the AFL v 20 years ago prior to the national expansion then you'd have to say they got it right that time.

[Dirko]

We all assume that Gold Coast and West Sydney will be failures but, to be honest, we are all guessing based on off-the-cuff opinions. I assume some hard, decent number crunching has been done (the AFL's financiers would insist on it) and that they see it as better for the league in the long run. If you compare the current financial health of the AFL v 20 years ago prior to the national expansion then you'd have to say they got it right that time.

At the top end sure it is healthy, and bringing in the two new franchises (they're not teams), the AFL will ensure they roll as much money into them as required to make sure they succeed. The money however has to come from somewhere. In the future the AFL won't budge from supporting the prime money spinners ie the current clubs/new franchises, that the current level of funding has to support so something has to give to ensure they can spend at the top end plus TWO more teams.

That somewhere IMO will be in the "grass roots" level as Benchwarmer is alluding too. I know that the AFL issued basically no new equipment for Auskick this year due to watching the pennies, and isn't that where Football starts.

It's all good having a top line product, but it's no good if the supporting products underneath are diminished.

[Dutchy]

You cant argue with the Gold Coast expansion, not dubious at all

[Booney]

They had a "North" that they could have sent there, quite easily.

[Hondo]

I don't believe all the money for these teams is coming from the AFL. As I understand it, there's also money from Govt and private investors. Plus there is recovery of the investment in the form of > TV money. It expands the pie so that bigger slices can be carved out down the track.

As I said though, this would be about the longer term financial health of the game. So that in 20 years time we can pay for new equipment for Auskick, etc. Any current cut-backs would be more to do with the global financial crisis rather than the new teams.

All I am trying to say is that it's too simplistic to say "don't do West Sydney and put the $5m into short term maintenance". What happens in 10 years when another $5m is needed? Facilities maintenance is an ongoing cost so, like any business, they want to grow their top line revenues to cover these sort of ongoing costs.

I don't have an opinion either way on the viability of the expansion plans because I haven't seen any of the numbers, all I have seen are emotional comments from supporters without a lot of hard facts to back them up.

[Benchwarmer]

I've just come back from a week on the Gold Coast - the Aussie Rules support (which is in a distinctive minority) is basically for the Lions or their own original sides from when they lived down south.

The Gold Coast Bullettin tries to pump up GCFC but to be honest, people talk about League first, the Lions a long way back in second, Gold Coast United in third and the odd murmur for GCFC because there is no interest in their Under 18 side. The Titans have drawn right away and GC United have their training sessions reported in more depth for months and their first practice match is still weeks away.

FFS, they had an AFL game the week I was there (S**t Kilda vs Melbourne) and apart from a quarter page advert every day in the Bullettin there was NO promotion for the game - not one word on radio and not one word on TV.

9112 is not even half-full but that's the best they can expect for GCFC unless the Lions play away ... but even then there'd still be no guarantee of the 'house full' sign going up.

Carrara has hardly changed in 15 years and is still not suitable for hosting matches - there is still little in the way of shelter from the weather and there is still the problem of having no rail link from Carrara to Broadbach or Surfers, access to parking from only the Broadbeach-Nerang Road via three (?) entries which cause monumental traffic snags along the B-N Road and the only public transport to service the ground (buses) will get caught in traffic. The car park is a swamp at the sign of any rain of note as well, which is why it is car parking for a sports stadium.

I went to a Bears game in 1990 (which happened to be their record crowd of not much more than 14,000) and it took 45 minutes to travel 100 metres to get out of the car park. Nothing has changed from then to this week except a bit of a refurbishment. It is still all temporary seating and the ground would be an embarrassment for a supporter taking an overseas visitor to a game given that we are in the 21st century now.

One building company promotes themselves with the slogan that "rent money is dead money", and I still contend that money chucked languidly at the Gold Coast and Western Sydney is dead money which could be better spent strengthening the grass roots and making sure that we are still attractive to young kids because Football is a very irresistible lure nowadays - it's not the old wogball but a chance to make money out of playing sport worldwide and if their facilities are better, kids will gravitate to the round ball code and leave Aussie Rules behind.

[Interceptor]

FFS, they had an AFL game the week I was there (S**t Kilda vs Melbourne) and apart from a quarter page advert every day in the Bullettin there was NO promotion for the game - not one word on radio and not one word on TV.

9112 is not even half-full but that's the best they can expect for GCFC unless the Lions play away ... but even then there'd still be no guarantee of the 'house full' sign going up.

Not a bad crowd for a top v bottom game with neutral clubs, I would've thought.

Carrara has hardly changed in 15 years and is still not suitable for hosting matches - there is still little in the way of shelter from the weather and there is still the problem of having no rail link from Carrara to Broadbach or Surfers, access to parking from only the Broadbeach-Nerang Road via three (?) entries which cause monumental traffic snags along the B-N Road and the only public transport to service the ground (buses) will get caught in traffic. The car park is a swamp at the sign of any rain of note as well, which is why it is car parking for a sports stadium.

I went to a Bears game in 1990 (which happened to be their record crowd of not much more than 14,000) and it took 45 minutes to travel 100 metres to get out of the car park. Nothing has changed from then to this week except a bit of a refurbishment. It is still all temporary seating and the ground would be an embarrassment for a supporter taking an overseas visitor to a game given that we are in the 21st century now.

Carrara is going to be completely redeveloped, with work to start after the R14 game this year.
Get with the program...
http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2009/05/07/76535_gold-coast-news.html

One building company promotes themselves with the slogan that "rent money is dead money", and I still contend that money chucked languidly at the Gold Coast and Western Sydney is dead money which could be better spent strengthening the grass roots and making sure that we are still attractive to young kids because Football is a very irresistible lure nowadays - it's not the old wogball but a chance to make money out of playing sport worldwide and if their facilities are better, kids will gravitate to the round ball code and leave Aussie Rules behind.

Well like other "footy conservatives" you might think it's all a big waste of time, but others like to see the code go for total domination of the country.
I don't know what the spend is on grass roots for traditional states, but I doubt it is something the AFL are forgetting about or neglecting to a large degree.
Personally I think the Gold Coast stands a good chance of being pretty successful, while West Sydney will be far more challenging.
Also, while everyone agrees that Tassie should have a side, they shoud've pushed for an opportunity far earlier than they have.

[Benchwarmer]

I know that Tassie have been trying since Fitzroy were playing home games at North Hobart Oval in the early 90s, but there are factors like population which have always been seen as negatives in their fight to secure a berth.

My biggest beef with Carrara is the neighbourhood infrastructure - what is the use of a stadium that has 15,000 or 25,000 or even 40,000 if there is only one access road for car park access ... you will still be stuck in the car park getting out and the Council won't spend millions of dollars just to build a couple of ancillary roads just so people can get in and out of a sporting stadium.

Skilled Park at Robina (NRL's Titans ground) has it right, they planned the venue so that there are no parking problems for spectators plus they have a train station to Brisbane nearby and a better road network to the Gold Coast than where Carrara is located, hence people like the ground much more than Carrara - for some that would be half the argument as to whether you will go to NRL or AFL matches.

[Interceptor]

My biggest beef with Carrara is the neighbourhood infrastructure - what is the use of a stadium that has 15,000 or 25,000 or even 40,000 if there is only one access road for car park access ... you will still be stuck in the car park getting out and the Council won't spend millions of dollars just to build a couple of ancillary roads just so people can get in and out of a sporting stadium.

Skilled Park at Robina (NRL's Titans ground) has it right, they planned the venue so that there are no parking problems for spectators plus they have a train station to Brisbane nearby and a better road network to the Gold Coast than where Carrara is located, hence people like the ground much more than Carrara - for some that would be half the argument as to whether you will go to NRL or AFL matches.

I would agree the access at Carrara isn't great and have experienced a long delay in getting out of car park first hand.
I'd be shocked though if there wasn't a significant improvement in road access at least.

I'm pretty sure they looked at an alternative site closer to the coast and train access, but obviously nothing came of it.

[Benchwarmer]

The problem is that the road is now duplicated but it won't make much difference as it is duplicated for only a couple of hundred metres in total IIRC.

From memory, they were trying to get a look in at Robina but a combination of dilly-dallying by Aussie Rules entities and strong resistance from rugby league circles who wanted a rectangular field for a "perfect fit stadium" scuttled that idea.