Premier League style competition

[nuggety goodness]

with the new franchises being started in GC and soon Western Sydney, do you think that they will continue to add teams down the track and in say 30-40 years time we will have enough teams to start a Premier League style comp with divisions made up of say 12 teams and then the same set up as they have in England and SAAFL... could look like this...

Prem League
Geelong, St.Kilda, W. Bulldogs, Brisbane, Carlton, Collingwood, Sydney, Hawthorn, Essendon, Port, Adelaide, North Melb.

Div 1
Gold Coast, Western Sydney, West Coast, Freo, Richmond, Melbourne, Central Dist, Sturt, South Fremantle, Subiaco, Williamstown, North Ballarat.

Div 2
Glenelg, Woodville/West Torrens, North Adel, West Adel, Port Melbourne, Northern Bullants, Sandringham, Collingwood, Swan Districts, West Perth, East Fremantle, Peel

Div 3
Box Hill, Casey, Werribee, Geelong, Frankston, Bendigo, Perth, East Perth, Claremont, Norwood, Port, South Adel

etc etc...

is this kind of layout for our game a possibility? this would mean a lot more money would have to be poured into clubs as they would be travelling a lot more and also current AFL players would have no affiliation with a league side in their state... would be massive wholesale changes but i reckon it would lift the state league teams to another level and we'd probably see Melbourne and Richmond and other retarded sides get demoted and play against similar quality sides... would also prevent the Centrals domination over the SANFL for the past too many years.

i would love to see this, although would probably never happen!

[Hondo]

is this kind of layout for our game a possibility? this would mean a lot more money would have to be poured into clubs as they would be travelling a lot more

That's the crux. The travel costs alone would kill it. If the USA can't sustain more than 32 NFL teams how are we supposed to maintain 40? Every club outside premier league that wanted to make the step up would need huge amounts of funds which they would get from ... where?

You don't want to muddle up the state leagues with the national comp and have everyone playing everyone else. It's a nice idealistic, ideal world goal. But it would kill most of the clubs that were a part of it because it all comes back to the bottom line.

Financial security doesn't work with uncertaintly about what division teams might be in next year or the year after. The AFL couldn't sign a TV broadcast deal, for example, if there was a risk that Collingwood were going to slip into Division 1 .... Or Sydney, WC or the Crows for that matter.

The SANFL can't risk losing 11 or 22 AFL home games in a single season because 1 or both the Crows and Power slipped out of premier league.

How does the draft work, how can Centrals hold on to their players if they are stuck in Div 1, etc, etc .. ?

Would it be the purist form of a true National competition? Maybe. Would it ever happen? No.

[heater31]

Its what should have happened back in 1986 but the VFL was broke and needed a quick fix. A re-branded VFL and crap football is all we got and everything else stayed the same

[Dirko]

Would NEVER work. People need to realise that the English Football League system in regards to promotion / relegation has been in existence since about 1892.

As an example, currently there are roughly 7000 clubs involved in the Football Leagues. It'd take a club about 8 - 10 years to work through the rungs.....

But I do like Collingwood in Div 2.

[Hondo]

Jabber as I understand it there's a free agency system in EPL where teams go out and buy new players once they are promoted? Is that what we truly want in the AFL? Remember too the market for soccer players covers the whole world. There's only one limited pool of Aust Rules footballers so any club outside "premier league" would be raped and pillaged annually. You'd need an Alan Scott or a Rob Gerard to back your club financially to have any hope of ever stepping up to premier league.

If you lose your players how can you move up? If CDFC went straight into the AFL as is next year they would be pumped by 10 goals each game. Then, straight back down to div 1 again but leave any decent AFL players at the door on your way out thanks. What's been achieved?

All you'd be left with is the same 16 teams interchanging in and out of premier league each year and the remaining 24 state league level teams pointlessly flying around the country at huge cost. All that money will come out of grass roots footy and the game would die in 20 years.

[Dirko]

Jabber as I understand it there's a free agency system in EPL where teams go out and buy new players once they are promoted? Is that what we truly want in the AFL? Remember too the market soccer players is the whole world. There's only one limited pool of Aust Rules footballers so any club outside "premier league" would be raped and pillaged annually. You'd need an Alan Scott or a Rob Gerard to back your club financially to have any hope of ever stepping up to premier league.

Not just in the EPL, but the lower Leagues too. Europe is basically Salary Cap free, hence why the names like "Kaka", "Ronaldo", "Torres" for example attract such huge prices, as it's not just the English Leagues, but Spanish & Italian that can fling around huge money. It's basically a show me the money scenario, and if that happened in Australia in all likelihood we'd only have 6 teams playing.

Clubs usually spend what the owners can (or most cases) can't afford, and hence why the Big Four (Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal & Liverpool) always seem to get the best players. Bit like the VFL in the 80's (Hawthorn, Collingwood, Carlton & Essendon). All they need is a rich owner to come on board and inject funds and the rise can happen if it all goes well. But then again look at Man City who did nothing this year with a whole heap of cash.

Having said that, if for example, some Saudi Oil Sheik decided he wanted in on Burton Albion who have just been promoted to League 2, from the Conference National, and bought them, and then told them to buy whoever they wanted to ensure promotion to the EPL, ASAP, it could happen. Just need to find the players who A. Would take the Cash & B Play in League 2 then 1 then the Championship.

[Barto]

I'd have thought the reasons why a premier league works with soccer in Britain and couldnt with football here is because of:

Less players in soccer
Distance travelled
Population density.

[Dirko]

I'd have thought the reasons why a premier league works with soccer in Britain and couldnt with football here is because of:

Less players in soccer
Distance travelled
Population density.

Good points. But you could have a conference style which they do use for the lower Leagues in England (North/South) and similar to the NBA etc.
The States is roughly the same size as Oz, so no reason why not (theoretically).

Population is OK, but standards of players are not. The advantage of the round ball game is that you can recruit worldwide, where for Aussie Rules, any recruit from overseas are pure speculation and a lot of hope.

[am Bays]

Good points. But you could have a conference style which they do use for the lower Leagues in England (North/South) and similar to the NBA etc.
The States is roughly the same size as Oz, so no reason why not (theoretically).
Population is OK, but standards of players are not. The advantage of the round ball game is that you can recruit worldwide, where for Aussie Rules, any recruit from overseas are pure speculation and a lot of hope.

250 Million v 20 Million far bigger market to generate cash in the US compared to here.

No chance it ever happening here and why should it? Who's the league system for soccer is the best anyways??

[Wedgie]

Would Geelong have got promoted to the AFL when they won the VFL a couple of years ago?
Geelong's A's versus Geelong B's would have been a blockbuster in 2008!

[Dirko]

250 Million v 20 Million far bigger market to generate cash in the US compared to here.

No chance it ever happening here and why should it? Who's the league system for soccer is the best anyways??

I was referring more so to distance travelled not population am.

IMO, the League system for Soccer is fantastic, if you have the teams and the infrastructure in place to allow such.

The Amateur League for Footy seems to work well with Promotion/Demotion. Seems most of the bigger Amateur sports in Australia
(Footy, Soccer, Rugby, Netball) work well with the League System.

[Sojourner]

What we need to remember that England is significantly smaller geographically than Australia, so teams dont have to travel any thing like the distance and can represent areas quite well. People also need to be aware that there is also a rule in Premier League that you cannot be promoted up a grade if you dont a, have a stadium or have access to a stadium that is of the required standard for EPL and you have to be able to garantor your club financially to compete at that level which genrally means most clubs are owned privatley, a very different model to the AFL.

Not to say though that there should not be two divisions of the AFL, I think that would be a better idea definatley!

[Hondo]

Not to say though that there should not be two divisions of the AFL, I think that would be a better idea definatley!

Possibly 2 divisions in US Sport conference style. But not 2 divisions with a promotion/relegation system.

The downside of the US way is that certain teams can never play off in the "grand final" because they are in the same conference. It's a pet hate of mine. For example, Dallas will never play San Francisco in the Super Bowl. Often the 2 best NFL teams in a season play off the week before the Super Bowl. At least in the AFL we have a better chance of the 2 best teams playing off for the Grand Final.

I'd hate to see a "Melbourne" and "non Melbourne" conference system for example even though the AFL/MCG would love it if a Melbourne based team was guaranteed a place in the Grand Final each year!

[Benchwarmer]

A bit pie in the sky, methinks.

I have always thought that it would be good to have a two-division competition with promotion and relegation (none of this Yankee conference sh*t) to keep clubs on their toes.

Travel is the killer, with English League football consisting of four division with 92 clubs in an area that is just a fraction of Australia with 3-3.5 times the population. Our country doesn't allow it on a similar scale without large travelling costs and the smaller population to fund it all.

[westozfalcon]

A bit pie in the sky, methinks.

I have always thought that it would be good to have a two-division competition with promotion and relegation (none of this Yankee conference sh*t) to keep clubs on their toes.

Travel is the killer, with English League football consisting of four division with 92 clubs in an area that is just a fraction of Australia with 3-3.5 times the population. Our country doesn't allow it on a similar scale without large travelling costs and the smaller population to fund it all.

Agreed.

I've pondered such a concept many times myself. Whilst the idea is great in theory, Australia's population and economy (unlike the USA and Britain's) is not big enough to sustain such a sporting system.

[howgoesit]

i think an FA cup style competition might be a more realistic situation. a knock out comp, that incorporates AFL, SANFL, WAFL, VFL, QAFL, ACT/NSW afl. so for the final you could find essendon v sandringham etc. just play one round every month instead of the nab cup will give clubs a chance to play some youngsters if they are confident of winning!!!

[Benchwarmer]

More pie in the sky, I am sorry.

The AFL are too up themselves to get involved with grass roots levels and it would be too much of an imposition on all clubs to run it.

[Magpiespower]

But I do like Collingwood in Div 2.

You'd like them more as a non-league team.

[Benchwarmer]

Two divisions of 12 would be ideal - 22 rounds, everyone plays each other home and away, etc. But on the minus side more teams equals more diluted quality of players and therefore play. If the population got to 30 million, then I would be advocating two divisions as you would be able to sustain 24 clubs then.

We will see how much of a money drain these two numpty clubs in backwaterville will be for the game in coming years. It will cost the sport a hefty amount which will be recouped from Joe & Joanne Average in the form of higher admission charges for all and therefore memberships will rise, plus higher costs of merchandise (as it is done centrally by the AFL) - there won't be enough interest in the newer markets because there are more established sports there already so there will need to be a lot of cash splashed. I envisage that this will only turn around when the population rises and there are people to follow the sport and its teams.

Sydney has had South Melbourne as the Sydney Swans there for 27 years and in a market of about 6 million, they still cannot get 40,000 (1 in 150 people) on a regular basis to their matches. Goodness knows what we will get for the new teams.