2009 Australian Football Hall Of Fame Inductees

[redden whites]

My first reaction is that Bicks is not quite at HOF level either but, when you look at his record, he's a 2 time premiership captain, 7 state games, 272 games which is similar to these guys:

Graham Arthur (Hawthorn) Hawthorn’s first premiership captain. Playing career: 1955-1968. Games: 232 Goals: 201
Gavin Brown (Collingwood) Playing career: 1987-2000 Games: 254 Goals: 195
Lou Richards (Collingwood) Playing career: 1941-1955 Games: 250 Goals: 423

Just picked out 3 but you could add Dean Kemp. Why should any of those guys be in if Bicks shouldn't? How many players can match his records? Should 300+ games be the criteria?

So well done Bicks regardless Also big congratulations to Peter Carey!!!!

Just got home,Bicks got in I see.What a Joke
I know Graham Arthur won a few B&Fs and Brown too .A slightly undetailed analysis Hondo.Bicks will now be forever known as the black sheep or Teasdale of the HOF .

[rod_rooster]

I like Bickley as a bloke and respect the football career he has had but for him to be inducted into the hall of fame is a bit over the top. He was a good honest footballer but nothing special. Personally if i was him i'd be quite embarrassed given who isn't in the HOF.

[redden whites]

My first reaction is that Bicks is not quite at HOF level either but, when you look at his record, he's a 2 time premiership captain, 7 state games, 272 games which is similar to these guys:

Graham Arthur (Hawthorn) Hawthorn’s first premiership captain. Playing career: 1955-1968. Games: 232 Goals: 201

3 BnFs

Gavin Brown (Collingwood) Playing career: 1987-2000 Games: 254 Goals: 195

3 BnFs + 2 AAs

Lou Richards (Collingwood) Playing career: 1941-1955 Games: 250 Goals: 423

Media Career helped him out

Just picked out 3 but you could add Dean Kemp.

1 BnF + 1 AA

Why should any of those guys be in if Bicks shouldn't? How many players can match his records?

No BnF, nowhere near AA selection. At no stage would Bickley have been in the top 50 players in the AFL. Sure, 2x Premiership Captain...great achievement. HOF worthy? Not even close. If you are putting Bickley into the HOF then there should be about 100 players from the last few years getting a gig.

I look forward to 2x Premiership player, All Australian, Rising Star, Norm Smith Medal winning Byron Pickett being added in a couple of years time.

Thanks Macca for the research .The stats say it all.

[redden whites]

I have most issue with Dean Kemp, as good a player as he was.

All Australian, B&F in a club Premiership year ,Norm Smith Medal
Bicks..270 odd games
Joke

[GWW]

It makes me think that what helped Bickley's cause was becoming exposed to the Victorian football community through his gig on the Sunday Footy Show and as an All Australian selector.

[redden whites]

In my disgust I have failed to mention Peter Carey.............Deserving and more than worthy inductee..Congatulations to Peter and the G.F.C

P.S. handy umpire too

[Bat Pad]

Agree on McIntosh, Davies & Bagshaw and there's more we could come up with

Don't get me wrong, I have a pet hate of the snubbing of SANFL greats in the AFL HOF as well. They seem to have to pull teeth to get recognised while modern day AFL players seem to cruise in.

I have most issue with Dean Kemp, as good a player as he was.

Why the issue with Dean Kemp. He's an All Australian, B & F winner, Club Captain, Norm Smith Medallist and 2 time Premiership Player. Where is the issue?

[Booney]

I look forward to 2x Premiership player, All Australian, Rising Star winning Byron Pickett being added in a couple of years time.

Amen.....was only just thinking how few Roos players from the 90's have been in"duck"ed

Is Wanganeen eligible yet? He should be a monty for next year.

I am not completely sure of the criteria but I believe you have to be out of the game, at all levels, for 3 or more years. Thus the fact Wanganeen and Ruccuitto have played Country Footy in recent times ensures their entry is delayed by some time.

Secondly, well done to Big Super Carey, a giant of the game who,as a kid, I remember watching him loaf around Alberton and get his hand on every ball that was thrown up or in. A deserved inductee.

Mark Bickley, really. I never rated him as a player and then when he turned thug ( although out of character ) he fell further in my books. His induction is a joke and he should be ashamed of his name being held in the same regard as many of the true champions within the HOF. Joke.

[JK]

I look forward to 2x Premiership player, All Australian, Rising Star winning Byron Pickett being added in a couple of years time.

Amen.....was only just thinking how few Roos players from the 90's have been in"duck"ed

Is Wanganeen eligible yet? He should be a monty for next year.

I am not completely sure of the criteria but I believe you have to be out of the game, at all levels, for 3 or more years. Thus the fact Wanganeen and Ruccuitto have played Country Footy in recent times ensures their entry is delayed by some time.

That was my understanding too, and I've always thought it a strange notion ... Once your top level days are over, the HOF commission are effectively saying, "don't put back in at grassroots level if you want to make it"

[dedja]

In my disgust I have failed to mention Peter Carey.............Deserving and more than worthy inductee..Congatulations to Peter and the G.F.C

P.S. handy umpire too

not to mention his books ...

[Gingernuts]

I think people are missing the point a little bit on Bickley. I would suggest that it is because he wasn't your typical 'superstar' player that he was inducted into the hall of fame.

He wasn't blessed with the natural talent of many of the players not yet inducted as highlighted above, and that is what makes his career and achievements so extraordinary. He was the last player picked on the Crows inaugural squad, barely making the cut. Most people wrote him off as an 'above average' SANFL player and despite this he managed to play 270 odd games at the highest level, represent his state, and lead his club to back to back flags.

His lack of natural talent means he probably worked twice as hard and most of the players listed off on this topic to achieve what he did. In fact there's probably countless blokes who had loads more talent than him and yet never played an AFL game due to their lack of dedication. It's a shame after all that it still seems he has to prove himself.

Congratulations Mark Bickley. Your career and induction into the hall of fame is a triumph for the 'average joe', and an example to all those kids out there that natural skill isn't necessarily a pre-requisite for an AFL football career.

[Dirko]

Well done Super fantastic to finally get in there. Well done Kenny Hands too and the big Fish.

Can't say I agree with Bickleys induction.

How the hell he can be inducted at the same time as Super is beyond me.....

[Booney]

I think people are missing the point a little bit on Bickley. I would suggest that it is because he wasn't your typical 'superstar' player that he was inducted into the hall of fame.

He wasn't blessed with the natural talent of many of the players not yet inducted as highlighted above, and that is what makes his career and achievements so extraordinary. He was the last player picked on the Crows inaugural squad, barely making the cut. Most people wrote him off as an 'above average' SANFL player and despite this he managed to play 270 odd games at the highest level, represent his state, and lead his club to back to back flags.

His lack of natural talent means he probably worked twice as hard and most of the players listed off on this topic to achieve what he did. In fact there's probably countless blokes who had loads more talent than him and yet never played an AFL game due to their lack of dedication. It's a shame after all that it still seems he has to prove himself.

Congratulations Mark Bickley. Your career and induction into the hall of fame is a triumph for the 'average joe', and an example to all those kids out there that natural skill isn't necessarily a pre-requisite for an AFL football career.

If we are going to open up the HOF to "avergae Joe's" who try hard then you might find there are blokes playing all around the land on Suburban and Country grounds who deserve to be inducted. Sure, they might not have played at AFL level but that is not part of the criteria ( See Peter Carey ).

I understand as a South and Crows fan you would love Bickley but I among many others find ourselves confused at his admission to the HOF.
To be honest, getting picked in the Crows innaugural sqaud ( 50 players IIRC ) wasnt hard to do, if you were the first or last picked.

This debate will rage for some time IMO.

For example,any reason why a Michael Wilson should not be admitted?

[redden whites]

I think people are missing the point a little bit on Bickley. I would suggest that it is because he wasn't your typical 'superstar' player that he was inducted into the hall of fame.

He wasn't blessed with the natural talent of many of the players not yet inducted as highlighted above, and that is what makes his career and achievements so extraordinary.

Congratulations Mark Bickley. Your career and induction into the hall of fame is a triumph for the 'average joe', and an example to all those kids out there that natural skill isn't necessarily a pre-requisite for an AFL football career.

Garbage,That puts Rodney Maynard in contention for Legend status
If I had time I would line up Bicks and Peter Carey stats and achievements side by side.To have them enter the H.O.F on the same night is a shame.

[Hondo]

You guys are kidding yourselves if you think one or 2 AA selections or a B&F makes Kemp or Brown qualified and not Bicks.

If that's the only point of difference you can come up with then you're clutching at straws. Someone dismissed Lou Richards' question mark with a "oh, he did media stuff" He would have been no better a player than Bicks.

Hey, keep them all out, I'm not fussed. But don't get defensive about Brown or Kemp in the same breath as attacking Bickley's admission. He was not a Nathan Buckley, but he was better than the "average Joe's" you are talking about and he was a 2-time premiership captain. While we shouldn't over-sell him, we should under-sell him either just because we've got our knickers in a knot over the HOF. He was good enough to play 7 State Games.

Booney, if Michael Wilson could have stayed fitter for longer then he would have been a candidate too IMO. I think there's a minimum games played critieria?

[Booney]

Not sure Hondo about the games and I was merely using Wilson as an example of the "average joe" who tried hard...my point being if we open up the HOF to that sort of player it will be a case of who isnt in the HOF not who is.

[Dogwatcher]

While I agree on this debate about Bickley, Brown and Kemp, I can't comprehend any debate about Richards deserving his spot.
I was quite surprised when Brown was added. I'm not sure he did enough to get in.
However, Richards is a football icon, whether you like him or not. His strong media career and his involvement in the expansion of the coverage of our great game in television's formative years and his prolonged partnership with Captain Blood on the box, as well as his ongoing albeit diminishing appearances on tv make him an important part of the game's history.
Someone said in a previous post that "his media career helped him", that's very dismissive of his contribution.
He paved the way for people like Sam Newman and Shane Crawford to be 'entertainers' as well as football commentators, making football shows a must watch for his 'out there' thoughts and often contrary opinions.

[Hondo]

Not sure Hondo about the games and I was merely using Wilson as an example of the "average joe" who tried hard...my point being if we open up the HOF to that sort of player it will be a case of who isnt in the HOF not who is.

I'd call Wilson better than an "average Joe" and, while Bicks was no superstar (like I said), calling a 2 time premiership captain and 272 game player an "average Joe" is an insult I reckon.

There's minimum qualification requirements to keep the scrubbers out. Someone who is good enough to be an AFL regular for 13 years straight and be captain of his club has to have something going for him more than an "average Joe" does. If Bicks was an "average Joe" then, my god, 80% of AFL players must be terrible.

As for the guy defending Dean Kemp. Mate, my issue with Kemp is that I don't see how he is any different to the Bicks' selection which now causing the non-Crows supporters on SAFooty to go into meltdown.

[Booney]

DW, I guess the confusion lies within the criteria set down as to what is required to enter the HOF. I agree 100% that in the true sense of the word "Legend" in Australian football terms Lou Richards is indeed a legend.

The question is, do you change the criteria to fit an individual?

"Legends

The Hall of Fame has a special category of inductees known as Legends. Individuals are selected for Legend status if they have had a particularly significant positive impact on the game of Australian Football."

Surely Lou fits that ?

http://www.afl.com.au/Season2007/Awards ... fault.aspx

I wonder if anyone could supply us with the full list of criteria? I dont have time to search for it right now.

[Gingernuts]

If we are going to open up the HOF to "avergae Joe's" who try hard then you might find there are blokes playing all around the land on Suburban and Country grounds who deserve to be inducted. Sure, they might not have played at AFL level but that is not part of the criteria ( See Peter Carey ).

You're missing my point there mate, Bickley went beyond simply 'trying hard'. Unlike so many who are 'born' to be elite footballers, he 'made' himself one.

I understand as a South and Crows fan you would love Bickley but I among many others find ourselves confused at his admission to the HOF.

I'm just trying to give a bloke credit where it's due, my comments aren't born out of blind adoration and I don't really appreciate them being dismissed as such.

To be honest, getting picked in the Crows innaugural sqaud ( 50 players IIRC ) wasnt hard to do, if you were the first or last picked.

Yea, it's piss easy to get on an AFL squad. The only reason I didn't play 270 odd AFL games, captain 2 flags and represent my state is I couldn't be stuffed really.

This debate will rage for some time IMO.

For example,any reason why a Michael Wilson should not be admitted?

The criteria for the Hall of Fame is not "how does this bloke stack up against every other player who ever played the game?". You can't compare players from different era's, it's impossible. You have to isolate a player assess whether, during his time in the game, he was an influential figure.

When Bickley played the game he commanded respect from both team mates and opposition and he was a fierce leader. He would've been rated one of the top captains going around at that stage (Carey perhaps his only rival), and I'm sure most coaches of the time would have picked him in their starting 22 in a heartbeat had they had the chance.

The Hall of Fame is always going to be an interesting process, considering players from different era's, states and competitions is a tough gig, always has been and always will be. Ultimately a panel of his peers decided he deserved to be there, and although I agree that there are many other players just as deserving, this doesn't mean Bickley deserved his induction any less.