Coaching record exceeded playing record

[Ash59]

I was talking to a few guys the other day and one of them (an Eagles supporter) mentioned that he does not rate Roy Laird as a coach. I was wondering why that might be and can only come to the conclusion that people's estimation of a coach (or at least their first impression) is based to some extent on the guy's playing record.

So my question is who do you think have been good or even great coaches, whose coaching records have far exceeded their deeds as a player? And has their performance as a coach been underestimated because of that?

[spell_check]

Does he rate him as a disciplinarian though? To be able to keep a side up the top for so long surely he credits Laird for that?

[rod_rooster]

John Cahill had a more decorated career as a coach than a player even though he was a wonderful player. He realistically just had a brilliant career in football (excluding his South experience last year ).

[goraw]

I was talking to a few guys the other day and one of them (an Eagles supporter) mentioned that he does not rate Roy Laird as a coach. I was wondering why that might be and can only come to the conclusion that people's estimation of a coach (or at least their first impression) is based to some extent on the guy's playing record.

So my question is who do you think have been good or even great coaches, whose coaching records have far exceeded their deeds as a player? And has their performance as a coach been underestimated because of that?

interesting question. good player vs an inherited culture.laird has kept the tradition going, if not enhanced it. i would vote he has been a better coach simply because he hasnt missed a beat since being the coach.he is the envy of every coach in the SANFL.he has lifted CDFC to unparelled success. hoping healy can get the blueprint:)

[drebin]

I was talking to a few guys the other day and one of them (an Eagles supporter) mentioned that he does not rate Roy Laird as a coach. I was wondering why that might be and can only come to the conclusion that people's estimation of a coach (or at least their first impression) is based to some extent on the guy's playing record.

So my question is who do you think have been good or even great coaches, whose coaching records have far exceeded their deeds as a player? And has their performance as a coach been underestimated because of that?

That bloke obviously has no clue about football to make a statement like that No more needs to be said.

The playing record of a coach has nothing to do with his coaching record as there have been a couple of absolute champions who struggled as coaches - Robran and Ebert.

Robran inherited a poor list after Patto had slashed and burnt the core of that 70's team and Barrie would be the first to concede his personality type is not cut out for coaching at Senior level.

Ebert you could argue had the cattle because as soon as Cahill went back to Port he lead them to 3 flags in a row with basically the same core group that Russell had.

[Pseudo]

So my question is who do you think have been good or even great coaches, whose coaching records have far exceeded their deeds as a player? And has their performance as a coach been underestimated because of that?

I always rated Alan Stewart as a coach. He can take much credit for the 'dogs current domination of the league. Am I right in thinking that Stewie never played a league game?

[JK]

Neil Balme? (certainly as far as his SANFL playing exploits were concerned)

[Big Phil]

So my question is who do you think have been good or even great coaches, whose coaching records have far exceeded their deeds as a player? And has their performance as a coach been underestimated because of that?

I always rated Alan Stewart as a coach. He can take much credit for the 'dogs current domination of the league. Am I right in thinking that Stewie never played a league game?

Roy Laird was never a superstar in the his playing days of I think about 80 odd games but was always a solid contributor and always gave 110% for the jumper. He played a bit of reserves footy as well and of course is a loyal club man through and through.

While of course Roy's job has been made easier with the cattle he has had, the winning culture the club has and the wonderful off field work of Kris Grant ensures that Roy gets the best out iof himself and the playing group in the best possible environment.

Alan Stewart of course deserves credit for the culture change he introduced and any Centrals supporter would agree he has been the catalyst for our more recent success. Don't quote me on it, but I think Stewie only played junior footy and maybe some reserves for Centrals.

[gadj1976]

Never saw Jack Oatey play but his coaching record I'd say would be better than his playing record.

[doggies4eva]

I must have seen just about every one of Roy Laird's League games. He played off the half back flank and was courageous and reliable but not brilliant.

As a coach he is brilliant. He is now in his 7th year having lead the dogs to 6 GFs and planning to make it 7 from 7. Of the 6 played he has a 5-1 record. To say he inherited his success is ridiculous. I think that to keep the enthusiasm and professionalism going year after year is astounding. The player list has nearly entirely turned over since he started. Even in 06 when we were undermanned we still made the GF. Apart from his 1 GF loss he has coached a win out of every other finals appearance since 03. I think his record is now able to be compared to the Oatie's and Cahills of the past - and he isn't finished yet.

[whufc]

After spending a year down in the changerooms while Roy Laird was coach i can guarentee that he gets the best out of himself and expects the best out of others who plays under him. He want's people around him like his playing style, 100% commitment through thick and thin, even if your not the most skilled or brilliant.
Even last year he admitted that the Dogs probably weren't the most skillful side, so they had to work harder and on areas such as fitness and toughness at the ball.
Lairdy is always 100% honest with his players, officials and all staff involved.

[MagareyLegend]

From the CDFC Website:

"The 1991 season also saw a change to the coaching spot with the appointment of long time Club stalwart Alan Stewart. Stewart played only two league games for the Club in 1969 and played in the Reserves Premiership side in 1971. He also had success coaching Central's Under 17's to two flags in the late '70's and was a successful Teal Cup Coach. Stewart broke Centrals long-standing finals drought with 1994’s memorable first-semi, four-point victory over Norwood, and then in 1995 led the Bulldogs into their first grand final. Unfortunately the loss to Port Adelaide was Stewart’s swan song."

[Grahaml]

Obviously it's a clueless comment by a clueless and probably jealous opposition fan. Throughout Roy's coaching career he's had a good side, no doubt, but the current side is largely put together by him, the structures are now his own and the game plan is no longer the same as what we had under Clarkson and Jonas. And let's not forget how many great teams over the years have failed to back up after a breakthrough yet Roy has managed to get the guys up year after year after year. For that alone he must be a great coach (the last side other than Centrals to make the GF after winning the flag the year before was Port in 1999 IIRC). Whatever basis you judge the guy by (records, ability to get the best out of what he has, sustained success) he is surely the best in this comp. Only thing he could possibly do to improve his standing as a coach is AFL success, but he himself has said he has no aspirations at AFL level.

[Pseudo]

... he himself has said he has no aspirations at AFL level.

And that statement alone makes him more than worthy of respect on This August Board.

[Ash59]

I didn't intend to turn this into a thread about Roy Laird specifically. I was just surmising about whether a blokes playing career influenced how people viewed them in a coaching capacity, and secondly those guys who have proved themselved very good coaches who did not reach the top heights as players. For example Fos Williams, Jack Otey and Jack Cahill were all walk up starts for State selection in their playing days.

Its funny but Alan Stewart is the other name that comes to mind for me. Alan used to vist the buthcher shop my father worked at around the tme he was having success with Centrals U17's and the Teal Cup. They'd alk a bit of footy and Dad thought he was brilliant.

I don't want to knock the bloke who made the comment about Laird even though he's entirely wrong. I think we all have an initial opinion when another club appoints a new coach and that initial opinion can be very hard to shake sometimes...

[76er]

As a sturt man i was in jealous awe of Laird last season. A dogs mate told me of how he looked at the comp when centrals had dropped to what seemed a distant third at the time and got the absolute best from his unit to win another flag in the most convincing fashion.

Another point that many non centrals supporters miss is how much the side turns over personel. I was shocked to see that only the Gowanses and Slade played in the 2000 flag (I think that is correct)

When he is done I have no doubt he will be in the same category as Fos williams, Jacks Oatey and Cahill. Maybe even one of his own. Knockers of the man are morons. There I said it! OUCH!!!!

[dedja]

For mine, Alan Stewart set up the foundation for the Dogs of today ... and anyone who questions Roy Laird's coaching ability has rocks in their head.

Not withstanding that, back to the topic ... as stated earlier, there would be more players that exceeded their coaching record, Russell Ebert and Rick Davies come to mind.

At the moment I can't think of any the other way round.

[FlyingHigh]

Roy's reputation is enhanced as the years go by as he keeps finding ways to keep the dogs on top, (albeit Kris Grant and ALan Stewart's work remains influential). Think many people believe early on he was lucky to inherit good sides, but as the years go on and he achieves continued success, his respect has continued to grow. Perhaps the first part of the last sentence is wrong, and is a perception due to the fact that he wasn't a star player, just an honest trier, certainly compared to their previous coaches in Jonas and Clarkson.

[FlyingHigh]

Russell Ebert was probably a bit unlucky in that after 1984, the next three years he had a younger, developing side, and any other club with such a group would have probably been content with finishing fourth.
Always believe Woodville made the mistake of appointing him coach after such a public dismissal, rallies etc at Port - mistake for both him and the club. However, in 1990 we should have done better with some of the players we had.

[purch]

What Laird has done is phenomenal, no doubt. He is the probably the best SANFL coach in a decade or 2. I do agree that the cattle were already there when he started though and he already had a team which had supreme confidence in themselves. Compare that to when Oatey joined Sturt, a team without a premiership for more than 2 decades - more like Jonas/Clarkson era

Cahill, Fos, Laird, Oatey...all great coaches. The only think that could make Roy greater is to take on a struggling team (read current day South or West) and take them to consecutive premierships.