Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two months

[Psyber]

To clarify the misunderstandings of some people:

"Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that "everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution".
People who arrive on our shores without prior authorisation from Australia, with no documents, or false documents are not illegal. They are asylum seekers-a legal status under International Law. 'Illegals' are people who overstay their visas. The vast majority of these in Australia are from western countries, including 5,000 British tourists."

They are possibly asylum seekers, but the claims of persecution do have to be checked to see whether they are true. They could apply and be checked out in Indonesia, or another off-shore processing centre. Attempting to enter the country without approval and appropriate customs and health checks is I think illegal - if it isn't it ought to be!

[Sojourner]

Another issue that need to be considered is the fact that Australia is one of the more generous nations in respect to accepting refugees for resettlement, we have a set figure of x no of thousand places for this purpose and I am led to believe that per capita that figure is higher than a number of other nations. Yet as a result these places are meant for people that are genuine refugees. Often places on the boats have been paid for by relatively large sums of money to human traffickers from those wanting the places, they then are regarded as refugees although may well have been wealthy in their own nation although it may well have been under an opressive regime. So on the flipside, the family waiting for a refugee place in Australia in a UN refugee camp in the Sudan or wherever is pushed back down the list as the places are handed out to those that are wealthy enough to purchase them. It is that scenario that I have a problem with and I think that it is fair enough to have a law that says that if you enter Australia illegally via payment to human traffickers then you should become ineligable for a place in Australia.

My next door neighbours growing up came as genuine refugees from El Salvador after having been put through situations of extreme hardship and loss of family members due to violence. They were soon into jobs (cleaning) and within 5 years moved out of their housing trust home and into one that they purchased for themselves and made a real go of their opportunity in Australia. There is no reason that anyone else cant do the same as the opportunity is there for those that apply for it through the right channels.

[redden whites]

the family waiting for a refugee place in Australia in a UN refugee camp in the Sudan or wherever is pushed back down the list as the places are handed out to those that are wealthy enough to purchase them.

Not unlike our university system then.

[topsywaldron]

In other words another media beat up by that right-wing rag. I haven't even bothered to look at it but was it written by the deranged Greg "George W. Bush was a great President" Sheridan?

Even worse. Piers Ackerman.

[redandblack]

Oh dear

One of the finest journalists the 18th century has produced

[Jimmy]

I'll show compassion when they use the proper channels to enter this great country of ours. Try to do it illegal and they can go back whence they came.

As for Rudd's nickname, I call him "Smarmy". His offsiders are the "Smarmy Army".

HERE HERE!!!!!!!

it will only take them 12-14 months of paperwork and interviews, but they will get there and then be able to live in the country legally.

[topsywaldron]

I'll show compassion when they use the proper channels to enter this great country of ours. Try to do it illegal and they can go back whence they came.

Like all those Poms who've outstayed their working visas? The only difference being they arrived on a plane.

[Psyber]

I'll show compassion when they use the proper channels to enter this great country of ours. Try to do it illegal and they can go back whence they came.

Like all those Poms who've outstayed their working visas? The only difference being they arrived on a plane.

That is no difference at all. Round the Poms up and ship them back too!
[I used to say that to my Pommy mother when we argued.]

[Dirko]

I'll show compassion when they use the proper channels to enter this great country of ours. Try to do it illegal and they can go back whence they came.

Like all those Poms who've outstayed their working visas? The only difference being they arrived on a plane.

That is no difference at all. Round the Poms up and ship them back too!
[I used to say that to my Pommy mother when we argued.]

Exactly...Get them out too. No difference. Plane / Ship whatever the method. If you haven't done it properly then back to whence you came.....

[topsywaldron]

[Plane / Ship whatever the method.

But you never see the headline "Five thousand more pasty Poms overstay their holiday visa this week" do you? I'm not sure of the exact statistic but the ratio of people who've overstayed their holiday/ working visa, and are thus in the country illegally, compared to those who arrive by boat is roughly twenty to one.

Draw your own conclusions as to why the people on boats, the vast majority of whom are found to be genuine refugees, get all the publicity.

Kevin Andrews and Phabulous Phil Ruddock being kicked out of government was one of the happiest days of my life.

[smac]

So these genuine refugees can't apply for refugee status from their homeland at the Australian Embassies?

And what is Rudd doing so differently that sets him apart from the previous Coalition Government?

[topsywaldron]

And what is Rudd doing so differently that sets him apart from the previous Coalition Government?

Minimising offshore processing, placing children and mothers in the community rather than in detention centres while they wait for a ruling on their refugee status, ensuring that requests are processed in months rather than years and, in a weird one, not sending people back to places we're currently at war with.

I could also mention something about not demonising refugees for political benefit but you'd see it as partisan politics. I, on the other hand, see it as a basic respect for humanity.

[Psyber]

And what is Rudd doing so differently that sets him apart from the previous Coalition Government?

Minimising offshore processing, placing children and mothers in the community rather than in detention centres while they wait for a ruling on their refugee status, ensuring that requests are processed in months rather than years and, in a weird one, not sending people back to places we're currently at war with.

I could also mention something about not demonising refugees for political benefit but you'd see it as partisan politics. I, on the other hand, see it as a basic respect for humanity.

And presumably providing much more opportunity for lawyers to enhance their wallets and their reputations as "champions of the downtrodden" [i.e. wallets indirectly], while costing the country a lot more in court activity?

Off-shore detention may actually work out cheaper, unless legislation about rights of appeal once people land illegally on our shores is changed.
We can't be "nice" to all and assume all alleged refugees are genuine - illegal arrival has benefits for agents of governments or of criminal organisations, by-passing security checks, and for the simply impatient who will not wait to apply and be assessed in the normal way. Only a firm line will inhibit this.

Unless our law allows detention and processing on our shores without the cost of endless appeals via the courts, no one should land without checks and clearance. These rights and eventual citizenship should come with legal arrival or government granted refugee status. However, I do agree illegal arrivals should be assessed for the genuineness of their claim for refugee status in a timely manner, and with kindness and respect during the process. Then, genuine refugees could get temporary visas and the right to apply to stay subject to normal immigration policy and their record while here, the non-genuine could be sent home, and the "unresolved in reasonable time" given temporary visas with security restrictions.

[smac]

So we process within months, as opposed to the years it takes to enter legally. I know which process I would be looking at reducing first.

They were genuine questions BTW, thanks for answering them.

[Q.]

So these genuine refugees can't apply for refugee status from their homeland at the Australian Embassies?

No. In countries where Australia has no dimplomatic representation there is no standard refugee process and therefore there is no 'queue' to jump. Asylum seekers are then forced to travel to other countries to find protection, some choosing to make a fairly perilious journey to Australia having had families and communities pool together resources in order to pay smugglers.

[The Big Shrek]

And what is Rudd doing so differently that sets him apart from the previous Coalition Government?

Minimising offshore processing, placing children and mothers in the community rather than in detention centres while they wait for a ruling on their refugee status, ensuring that requests are processed in months rather than years and, in a weird one, not sending people back to places we're currently at war with.

I could also mention something about not demonising refugees for political benefit but you'd see it as partisan politics. I, on the other hand, see it as a basic respect for humanity.

Here here Topsy! Unfortunately many people don't see treating people with dignity as a priority. For them they are inherently better than foreigners and have an inalienable right to enjoy the benifits of this country. People trying to escape other countries with their lives are to form orderly queues and move forward at the same rate as a line at a busy nightclub. Anything less might make us a little scared and paranoid about the foreigners taking over the country and raping our children. Ensuring our own comfort is far more important than helping people avoid human rights abuses.

[Q.]

We can't be "nice" to all and assume all alleged refugees are genuine - illegal arrival has benefits for agents of governments or of criminal organisations, by-passing security checks, and for the simply impatient who will not wait to apply and be assessed in the normal way. Only a firm line will inhibit this.

Think about it Psyber. One does not by-pass security checks without having valid papers. There has never been any evidence that those arriving by these channels are terrorists. Agents of governments or criminal organisations would have valid papers and probably fly first-class.

[The Big Shrek]

And what is Rudd doing so differently that sets him apart from the previous Coalition Government?

Minimising offshore processing, placing children and mothers in the community rather than in detention centres while they wait for a ruling on their refugee status, ensuring that requests are processed in months rather than years and, in a weird one, not sending people back to places we're currently at war with.

I could also mention something about not demonising refugees for political benefit but you'd see it as partisan politics. I, on the other hand, see it as a basic respect for humanity.

And presumably providing much more opportunity for lawyers to enhance their wallets and their reputations as "champions of the downtrodden" [i.e. wallets indirectly], while costing the country a lot more in court activity?

What a load of crap Psyber. Do you think refugees have bottomless pockets to pay for lawyers? Maybe there wouldn't be such a need for 'champions of the downtrodden' if the post-modern facists such as yourself weren't so intent on treading on them.

[mick]

Why don't we just let anyone in, then Australia can hold up its head proudly in the world as a humanitarian paradise An amazing transformation after 11 years of flirting with the ideals of the IIIrd Reich

[The Big Shrek]

Ha ha, did you like that post modern facist remark mick?