2nd Test: India v Australia at Mohali

[hearts on fire]

This is a sad day for Australian cricket, but in saying that, it was bound to happen.

Just a pity that it's against the INDIANS!

[Hondo]

Maybe we should de-personalise the Watto debate. Seems to me, the debate is more about the current policy of the Australian selectors which is to play 5 bats, 1 all-rounder, 1 WK & 4 bowlers.

There's only 5 spots for specialist batsmen so to query Watto's spot means finding another all-rounder to bat 6, not David Hussey or Brad Hodge. The same argument that's levelled at Watto, could have been levelled at Roy who, despite his success, was never in the best 6 batsman in the country. He played because of the all-rounder policy.

So, under the current selection policy, with Roy unavailable Watto's test spot makes perfect sense ... but is it the right selection policy?

To me, with Gilly gone we may not be able to get away with only 5 specialist batsman but that will depend on how Haddin goes. If Watto can bet well enough (for a number 6) and bowl tightly and take a few wickets as 5th bowler, then I'm happy with him in the side.

[mal]

Dads army neds guys less than 30 years old
At this stage, there are only 2 guys in this age bracket that prob. will be in the team in 3 years time


NO
_______
KATICH
HAYDEN
PONTING
HUSSEY
HADDIN
LEE

MAYBE
______
WATTO
WHITE
SIDDLE


YES
________
JOHNSON
CLARKE

Include Stuart Clark as another that will be missing
Include Roy as well

What happened we just had Warrrrrney/JL/ooh ahh/Gilly retire
and yet we have rebuilt with a batch of 30 + year olds

The need to blood younger players is paramount
Hence another reason why Watto needs at least 10-12 tests to prove himself
After all AU gave Roy that long

[rod_rooster]

Good post hondo. I think the selection policy is flawed however losing Warne and McGrath (and to a lesser extent Dizzy) has left a huge gap that needs to be filled somehow. Whilst Roy was not and is not in the best 6 batsman in the country what he offers is some variety as a bowler. Sure he's not the best bowler going around but he is useful enough and bowls off breaks and even his medium pace is very different from what the other bowlers are serving up. He is also arguably the best fieldsman in the world. Watto really just bowls straight up and down and offers no variety to the bowling attack. Realistically in the current side we have 3 bowlers and a few part timers. I would prefer to see a genuine batsman in the side and have the one less part time bowler.

At the end of the day we need to find a quality spin bowler before the current selection policy will stand any chance of being changed and until then i have to accept watching great players playing Sheffield Shield when they should be wearing the baggy green.

[hearts on fire]

After all AU gave Roy that long

They may have gave Roy that long because we had plenty of quality batsmen to cover him if he batted sh1t, so that gave him plenty of time to get himself into the team and perform.

This time around with Watto, it is different because we don't have the luxury batsmen to cover him if he can't get himself right, Watto HAS to perform otherwise see you later Watto!

[mal]

ROD
Whether its Roy/WATTO/Jimmmmeh Hopes this team need a handy batter that bowls
Yesterday we had LEE injured, the frontliners were rooted during the long Indian innings
The skipper got 0/71[24] from WATTO on a road, giving the other 2 frontliners a break.

WATTO is varying his bowling thesedays, slower balls, cutters etc
WATTO took 3/42 last game [how quickly we forget ]

If AU can get him to average 40 with bat and ball in his first 10 tests they would be content
He might still become a good test cricketer
His last 2 digs under pressure have been oustanding for a guy playing in his 3rd/4th tests

IN 0/90 ooooooouch

[rod_rooster]

I understand the reasons for playing an allrounder. What i don't understand is how anyone can think Watto's bowling is anything other than rubbish.

[hearts on fire]

I understand the reasons for playing an allrounder. What i don't understand is how anyone can think Watto's bowling is anything other than rubbish.

Surely it's not that bad, we are playing Cameron White!

[mal]

TA 187 WERE 3/14 + 4/49
WA 4/37
Shaun Marsh fails + seemlingly saves his best for hit and giggle games
VOGES 3/12
MCGOFFIN 3/30 [keeps taking wickets is he good enough to play for AU ?]
GEEVES 3/20

[rod_rooster]

I understand the reasons for playing an allrounder. What i don't understand is how anyone can think Watto's bowling is anything other than rubbish.

Surely it's not that bad, we are playing Cameron White!

Can't argue with you on Cameron White but just because we are playing him doesn't make Watto's bowling any better. White doesn't even rate himself as a bowler though. He hardly bowls for Vic and he is his own captain

[am Bays]

Pooh bugger sh!t...

Looks like we'll be chasing ~ 500 when we start to bet about 30 mins before tea tomorrow. 4 and a bit sessions to save teh game.

We'll need at least another Manchester innings from ponting and another batsman prepared to bat for big minutes too

[Gozu]

I don't know what Hayden's plans are but I can't see him surviving until the Ashes series. He's looking a bit like how the Waugh twins looked on our last tour of Pakistan (Sri Lanka & UAE actually) when Shoaib Akhtar humiliated them and delivered the best pace bowling I've ever seen in a Test series. Too slow, skills declining and hand eye on the way out.

We just lack genuine match winners and match savers. To me the only one out there is Ponting. Hussey gets the runs but IMO doesn't win us or save us games. The rest are just making up the numbers and still don't understand why Michael Clarke is playing Test cricket.

I've had a gutful of India and their roads already.

[rod_rooster]

I don't know what Hayden's plans are but I can't see him surviving until the Ashes series. He's looking a bit like how the Waugh twins looked on our last tour of Pakistan (Sri Lanka & UAE actually) when Shoaib Akhtar humiliated them and delivered the best pace bowling I've ever seen in a Test series. Too slow, skills declining and hand eye on the way out.

We just lack genuine match winners and match savers. To me the only one out there is Ponting. Hussey gets the runs but IMO doesn't win us or save us games. The rest are just making up the numbers and still don't understand why Michael Clarke is playing Test cricket.

I've had a gutful of India and their roads already.

The same tour where Steve Waugh made a hundred in the last Test??

Hayden is a quality player and will respond. It's amazing the part luck plays in this game. Hayden gets fired in the first Test when he didn't hit it, Ponting gets fired after smashing it onto his pads, Ganguly gets away after being stumped and Watson is as plumb LBW as you could ever possibly be but given not out. Makes the game interesting but in the long term class will prevail which is why i have no doubt Hayden will makes some big scores very soon.

[Gozu]

The same tour where Steve Waugh made a hundred in the last Test??

Yeah that's the one. The same series where he also made scores of 31, 0 and 0 and Mark made scores of 55, 0, 2 and 23. Shoaib was out injured for the third Test but in the first two had figures of 3/51, 5/21 and 1/42. Series figures of 9/114, nine wickets @ 12.7 each. They were helpless against him and if you saw that series you'd remember he made them both look like tail-enders.

If my memory serves me correctly Tugga brought up the ton on a slog sweep into the stands in that third test. Great viewing.

[Adelaide Hawk]

I understand the reasons for playing an allrounder. What i don't understand is how anyone can think Watto's bowling is anything other than rubbish.

Surely it's not that bad, we are playing Cameron White!

Can't argue with you on Cameron White but just because we are playing him doesn't make Watto's bowling any better. White doesn't even rate himself as a bowler though. He hardly bowls for Vic and he is his own captain

That's okay though, we all know White can't bowl. However, he is supposed to make some runs, and he's not even doing that. 14 runs between White and Haddin is not good enough, and time the both of them made a contribution.

[rooburger]

i believe as mal said.
so many players too old now .
no depth coming through and some players not given the chance.
unfortunatley Aust cricket is now on the slow sprial downward.

stil been on top for a few years now.
its just lucky no other country has the talent to take it earlier.

[Adelaide Hawk]

i believe as mal said.
so many players too old now .
no depth coming through and some players not given the chance.
unfortunatley Aust cricket is now on the slow sprial downward.

stil been on top for a few years now.
its just lucky no other country has the talent to take it earlier.

Yes, and you just watch the media. They refused to enjoy the brilliance of the Aussies when they had Warne, Gilchrist, McGrath, etc, always whingeing about how "boring" it is that Australia win all the time.

The moment the Aussies start losing the media will start whingeing about the fact we haven't brought on players to ensure we keep winning.

The Aussies will continue to produce good cricketers who may or may not suceed at Test level, but to have two "once in a lifetime" players like Warne and Gilchrist in the same team won't happen again for a long, long, time.

[mal]

i believe as mal said.
so many players too old now .
no depth coming through and some players not given the chance.
unfortunatley Aust cricket is now on the slow sprial downward.

stil been on top for a few years now.
its just lucky no other country has the talent to take it earlier.

Yes, and you just watch the media. They refused to enjoy the brilliance of the Aussies when they had Warne, Gilchrist, McGrath, etc, always whingeing about how "boring" it is that Australia win all the time.

The moment the Aussies start losing the media will start whingeing about the fact we haven't brought on players to ensure we keep winning.

The Aussies will continue to produce good cricketers who may or may not suceed at Test level, but to have two "once in a lifetime" players like Warne and Gilchrist in the same team won't happen again for a long, long, time.

ONCE IN A LIFETIME
=3 WARNNNNNEY-OOOH AAAAH - GILLY

On the subject of playing WATTO/WHITE as allrounders
It compliments a longer batting line up [in theory]
But to have 2 part timers in an attack + only 3 frontliners is a shorter bowling line up [in theory]
It works in O/D cricket
But in the long run it wont work at test level
But having said all that the selectors didnt have much choice this time round

[Adelaide Hawk]

ONCE IN A LIFETIME
=3 WARNNNNNEY-OOOH AAAAH - GILLY

I guess it's a matter of opinion, but I said Warne and Gilchrist were "once in a lifetime" players because they were dead set freaks. I can't imagine ever seeing two players like them again.

McGrath was great, no doubt about it, but his greatness was born on discipline and hard work rather than natural brilliance. Although we may never see another quick as good as him for some time, I think it's far more likely than another Warne or Gilchrist.

[MADDOG3]

It's beginning to really fall apart. Understatement of the year to say the Aussies need a wicket... Gambhir apparently dropped, runout chance missed (w/overthrows), Gambhir's tonked a six... you'd think it would only be a matter of time before one of them falls but we all know that things are different over there.