Edwardstown still looking

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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby cyclops » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:16 pm

words of wisdom wrote:
cyclops wrote:Couple of probs with the 2 divs and that is juniours??? We are currently very strong with our juniour sides and will be in 09 and the formula you have presented has 3 sides in div 2 with no kids???(you would have F/Hill and Noarlunga blowing sides away each week,and I dont think that is good for footy)


Do Morphett Vale have 2 under 16's & 14's? Could clubs in this position fill the spaces left by clubs without junior sides?


Yes we do wow,and so do cove,valley,reynella and brighton,but obviously brighton would have to be excluded from this as there 2nd side all play college on sat.GREAT IDEA WOW.I would gaurantee the boys that played in the 2nd sides for m/vale would rather play in a div 2 comp on a sat rather than sunday arvos which is only in place for brighton anyway.
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby cyclops » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:18 pm

words of wisdom wrote:
cyclops wrote:So they dont smash Hackam & others by 40 goals. Thats why there should be 2 divs to stop this from happening.


Mate other teams in that bottom 8 will smash the hawks by more than 40 goals anyway.


Fair call but surely even one eyed as you are, you would like to see a more even competion. Edwardstown in Div 2 wouldnt provide that.[/quote]
absolutely correct ,other teams i feel wont like it.ie-f/hill,shoes etc.
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby shoe boy » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:20 pm

cyclops wrote:
words of wisdom wrote:
cyclops wrote:Couple of probs with the 2 divs and that is juniours??? We are currently very strong with our juniour sides and will be in 09 and the formula you have presented has 3 sides in div 2 with no kids???(you would have F/Hill and Noarlunga blowing sides away each week,and I dont think that is good for footy)


Do Morphett Vale have 2 under 16's & 14's? Could clubs in this position fill the spaces left by clubs without junior sides?


Yes we do wow,and so do cove,valley,reynella and brighton,but obviously brighton would have to be excluded from this as there 2nd side all play college on sat.GREAT IDEA WOW.I would gaurantee the boys that played in the 2nd sides for m/vale would rather play in a div 2 comp on a sat rather than sunday arvos which is only in place for brighton anyway.

And what do you do with our second side (none in 08 but have had 14/16 in the past)as we will be fielding 2nd sides in 14/16 in 09?
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby words of wisdom » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:27 pm

cyclops wrote:
words of wisdom wrote:
cyclops wrote:Couple of probs with the 2 divs and that is juniours??? We are currently very strong with our juniour sides and will be in 09 and the formula you have presented has 3 sides in div 2 with no kids???(you would have F/Hill and Noarlunga blowing sides away each week,and I dont think that is good for footy)


Do Morphett Vale have 2 under 16's & 14's? Could clubs in this position fill the spaces left by clubs without junior sides?


Yes we do wow,and so do cove,valley,reynella and brighton,but obviously brighton would have to be excluded from this as there 2nd side all play college on sat.GREAT IDEA WOW.I would gaurantee the boys that played in the 2nd sides for m/vale would rather play in a div 2 comp on a sat rather than sunday arvos which is only in place for brighton anyway.


I understand it would hard to find extra trainers etc & it may be a one or two sided comp but you want your juniors to have a game every week. Example - Morphies 2nd 16's side might still smash Aldingas 1st 16's but at least they are still playing for your club and not going else where for a game
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby reppoh_eht » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:32 pm

Everyone on here thinks that going to two divisions will create a more even competition? I disagree, it will only help in the short term, what happens to teams like Flaggies, Noarlunga and maybe even Christies who have good or okay juniors (still a lot better than the other listed div 2 clubs), these Junior players will play against really poor competition and therefore this will not benefit their football at all.

So in 2,3,4 or 5 years time the A Grade may be a better standard in Div 1, but the Standard of the Div 2 teams will of dropped off, their Juniors will not be as good as if they were playing against the other good Junior sides like they are now.

They way i see it, in this day and age, Two Divs just cant work, it would be a great thing to have in the Seniors, but the SFL (as some one mentioned before) is all about clubs, and having juniors play before seniors and sticking together, making the change would just ruin what the SFL is about.
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby words of wisdom » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:38 pm

And what do you do with our second side (none in 08 but have had 14/16 in the past)as we will be fielding 2nd sides in 14/16 in 09?[/quote]

Good question :-k Some teams in the Gsfl e.g Strathalbyn had 50+ u/12's, 50 u/14's & 35 u/17 kids in 07. They had a rotation system where kids in there last year of there age group played every week, kids with a year left play every second etc etc. Its not perfect but its all they can do
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby cyclops » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:39 pm

And what do you do with our second side (none in 08 but have had 14/16 in the past)as we will be fielding 2nd sides in 14/16 in 09?[/quote]


Division 1

cove
happy valley
morphett vale
brighton
reynella
pt noarlunga
flagstaff hill
christies beach
noarlunga

Division 2

cove #2
happy valley #2
morphett vale#2
reynella #2
noarlunga #2
mville park
marion
aldinga
osb/lons
hackham
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby shoe boy » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:43 pm

reppoh_eht wrote:Everyone on here thinks that going to two divisions will create a more even competition? I disagree, it will only help in the short term, what happens to teams like Flaggies, Noarlunga and maybe even Christies who have good or okay juniors (still a lot better than the other listed div 2 clubs), these Junior players will play against really poor competition and therefore this will not benefit their football at all.

So in 2,3,4 or 5 years time the A Grade may be a better standard in Div 1, but the Standard of the Div 2 teams will of dropped off, their Juniors will not be as good as if they were playing against the other good Junior sides like they are now.

They way i see it, in this day and age, Two Divs just cant work, it would be a great thing to have in the Seniors, but the SFL (as some one mentioned before) is all about clubs, and having juniors play before seniors and sticking together, making the change would just ruin what the SFL is about.

You make a lot of sense.Best post for a while.
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby Down the Hill » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:21 pm

shoe boy wrote:
reppoh_eht wrote:Everyone on here thinks that going to two divisions will create a more even competition? I disagree, it will only help in the short term, what happens to teams like Flaggies, Noarlunga and maybe even Christies who have good or okay juniors (still a lot better than the other listed div 2 clubs), these Junior players will play against really poor competition and therefore this will not benefit their football at all.

So in 2,3,4 or 5 years time the A Grade may be a better standard in Div 1, but the Standard of the Div 2 teams will of dropped off, their Juniors will not be as good as if they were playing against the other good Junior sides like they are now.

They way i see it, in this day and age, Two Divs just cant work, it would be a great thing to have in the Seniors, but the SFL (as some one mentioned before) is all about clubs, and having juniors play before seniors and sticking together, making the change would just ruin what the SFL is about.

You make a lot of sense.Best post for a while.


I made a similar post some weeks ago Shoe Boy. Many on here are forgetting about the detrimental effect the old 2nd Division had on Juniors. The glory days of 2 Divs was when most Div 2 clubs were rural or semi-rural. Mc Flat, Mc Vale, Meadows, Kangarilla, Aldinga etc. Why can't we just grow the one division firstly up to 16 teams and so what if it grows to 17 or 18. With a final 8 this is quite acceptable and will make the draw even less compromised. As far as the clubs with 2 junior sides, Brighton's extra 14's and 16's are predominantly college kids due to us having about 4 or 5 catholic primary schools in the local area and these kids all end up at Sacred Heart. We can't turn them away as Minis so we needed to do something to keep them playing at our club. The Sunday comp has helped us do this and I think Cove are in a similar position.
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby Benchwarmer » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:31 pm

If two divisions is the way, why not have one division in '09 with a clear cut statement made before the season that there will be two divisions in 2010 and if you are not in the top 8 in 2009, you will be playing Division 2.

Simpler, fairer and the same level playing field for everyone instead of getting clubs off side in order to accommodate for Edwardstown in Div 1 right from the get-go ... they will be able to say they earned their spot in Div 1, just like every other club if they made it.

Thoughts?
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby Esteban Vihaio » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:11 pm

It'd be interesting to know the perspective of those bottom seven clubs? If four supported division 2, I'd say let them go.

With four suburban team (five with flaggies), the Sunday comp will be here to stay.

In metrosouth, as I understand, they have a grade for each age group, i.e. U/12, U/13, U/14. No club club is allowed to supply more than one team in each grade unless all clubs field a side. As I was once told by an official at the Lions, their juniors are often "poached" by surrounding clubs with the calls of "Why are you playing for a club that is going nowhere and don't you want to win"; along with the allure of playing with their mates from highschool. I suspect there are enough juniors in the SFL for each side to field a team, is this a way to save the struggling clubs like Lonsdale and Hackham?

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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby vics01 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:30 pm

EV In metrosouth, as I understand, they have a grade for each age group, i.e. U/12, U/13, U/14. No club club is allowed to supply more than one team in each grade unless all clubs field a side. As I was once told by an official at the Lions, their juniors are often "poached" by surrounding clubs with the calls of "Why are you playing for a club that is going nowhere and don't you want to win"; along with the allure of playing with their mates from highschool. I suspect there are enough juniors in the SFL for each side to field a team, is this a way to save the struggling clubs like Lonsdale and Hackham?

I can not think of any poaching being conducted from my club to juniors at Lonsdale or Hackham or elsewhere. We are located in a growing area with upto 6 schools. I would imagine if you limited the number of kids at each club you would loose kids to footy. I want to play at Cove/BDOS/VALLEYS/FLAGGIES Etc with my mate but have been told I have to travel to Lonsdale or Hackham. I will play something else. Not having a go at those two clubs but the fact is kids want to play with their mates and identify with clubs where they live and also success. Success is a fact of life. It was not so long ago that Cove did not have a strong club or Juniors but over the last 7 to 8 years Cove and some people in particular have worked very hard to improve the club and attract juniors to the club why should they or Valleys, Brighton have to loose the unknown furture player or (sponsor). I remember when my lad started at Cove it was just getting up and going but we went there due to all his mates going there. You reap what you sow. Brighton/Cove/Valleys/Reynella all have Sunday 14/16 this is due to the hard work they have all put in to attract minis to their clubs. I personally think to be taken seriously as a league we need two division with promotion/relegation. I see arguments that Div 2 teams will have weak Juniors, I hate to say it but the Juniors at some clubs are not that strong now. Juniors mirror seniors thrashings each week for some clubs. I would imagine that if you asked the kids on the receiving end of these thrashing they would prefer to play div 2 and at least be competative and have the opportunity to play finals, doesn't matter at what level you play finals is finals. Isn't it much better to be saying I am playing finals than be anchored to the bottom a 16 + teams and going nowhere.

But I suppose we remain as we are until the good gentlemen at the SFL actually wake up from the glorious past and realise that the past is passing us now and soon we will be history.
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby reppoh_eht » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:53 am

Benchwarmer wrote:If two divisions is the way, why not have one division in '09 with a clear cut statement made before the season that there will be two divisions in 2010 and if you are not in the top 8 in 2009, you will be playing Division 2.

Simpler, fairer and the same level playing field for everyone instead of getting clubs off side in order to accommodate for Edwardstown in Div 1 right from the get-go ... they will be able to say they earned their spot in Div 1, just like every other club if they made it.

Thoughts?


Thoughts are exactly what i stated before. As for your statments:

Simpler? Yes
Fairer? In what respect? The fact that teams will know in 2010 weather they will be playing div 2? Wow that makes it fair that a club should be pushed to div 2 and their Juniors made to suffer.

All that 2 Divisions would do is create a larger gap between the top 6 and the rest, making the rich/better clubs richer and better and making the struggling/poor clubs struggle even more.

I Think Shoe Boy and DTH understand what i am saying, some others are thinking A Grade and A Grade only, this cant be the thought process if this league wants to be around and strong in 5, 10 ,20+ years time....
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby Benchwarmer » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:32 pm

I only had A and A Reserves in mind.
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby Hills » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:41 pm

Why cant the Jnr squads play div 1 if their good enough?
A and B grade can play div 2?
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby reppoh_eht » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:08 pm

Hills wrote:Why cant the Jnr squads play div 1 if their good enough?
A and B grade can play div 2?


Because then Clubs do not play together, you will have A's and B's playing against one team at home, and all the Junior sides will have to go and play away(possibly at aldinga), imagine the trouble of finding extra trainers etc, not having as many supports and all the other dramas that go along with that.

Surely no one on here wants that type of thing to happen? The hole club (if the club has 5 saturday sides) should all be playing together on the same day at the same ground, unless programming does not permit it (e.g in the Under 16's comp a couple of times this year).
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby Waterboy » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:35 pm

vics01 wrote:EV In metrosouth, as I understand, they have a grade for each age group, i.e. U/12, U/13, U/14. No club club is allowed to supply more than one team in each grade unless all clubs field a side. As I was once told by an official at the Lions, their juniors are often "poached" by surrounding clubs with the calls of "Why are you playing for a club that is going nowhere and don't you want to win"; along with the allure of playing with their mates from highschool. I suspect there are enough juniors in the SFL for each side to field a team, is this a way to save the struggling clubs like Lonsdale and Hackham?

I can not think of any poaching being conducted from my club to juniors at Lonsdale or Hackham or elsewhere. We are located in a growing area with upto 6 schools. I would imagine if you limited the number of kids at each club you would loose kids to footy. I want to play at Cove/BDOS/VALLEYS/FLAGGIES Etc with my mate but have been told I have to travel to Lonsdale or Hackham. I will play something else. Not having a go at those two clubs but the fact is kids want to play with their mates and identify with clubs where they live and also success. Success is a fact of life. It was not so long ago that Cove did not have a strong club or Juniors but over the last 7 to 8 years Cove and some people in particular have worked very hard to improve the club and attract juniors to the club why should they or Valleys, Brighton have to loose the unknown furture player or (sponsor). I remember when my lad started at Cove it was just getting up and going but we went there due to all his mates going there. You reap what you sow. Brighton/Cove/Valleys/Reynella all have Sunday 14/16 this is due to the hard work they have all put in to attract minis to their clubs. I personally think to be taken seriously as a league we need two division with promotion/relegation. I see arguments that Div 2 teams will have weak Juniors, I hate to say it but the Juniors at some clubs are not that strong now. Juniors mirror seniors thrashings each week for some clubs. I would imagine that if you asked the kids on the receiving end of these thrashing they would prefer to play div 2 and at least be competative and have the opportunity to play finals, doesn't matter at what level you play finals is finals. Isn't it much better to be saying I am playing finals than be anchored to the bottom a 16 + teams and going nowhere.

But I suppose we remain as we are until the good gentlemen at the SFL actually wake up from the glorious past and realise that the past is passing us now and soon we will be history.


As far as I'm aware Cove have never tried to get juniors across from Lonsdale, and actually may be looking to help Lonsdale out a bit next season. But there are a number of rumours about Lonsdale juniors that are mostly traceable back to one other local club.

You can't really make kids play at a different club to their mates, particularly a club that doesn't get a lot of wins. The idea of one team per grade until all clubs have that grade filled is a good one. It would eventually lead to a point where families would switch clubs to give their kids a game rather than missing out 2 weeks out of 3. But multiple teams per club are established now in the SFL and that won't be reversed anytime soon.

Smaller clubs now have to get out there and find kids who aren't playing football, get them into football and then make an environment where the families want to stay even if the wins aren't rolling in.
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby shoe boy » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:31 am

After my earlier post re Edwardstown are IN the SFL in 09.
I will stand by my post but after discussion with a couple of Edwardstown players,there is obviosly a lack of communication at the club and none if any debate from the playing group.
1) most of the players do not want to play SFL
2) They beleive that the President is the only one pushing the agenda
3)If they do go into SFL my mail has at least half the senior group would leave.
4)The SFL have a special presidents meeting on the 7/10/08 re Edwardstown.
5)I know that the SFL executive want Edwardstown 09 with A/B/18 to start off.
THOUGHTS??????
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby the back pocket » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:46 am

I have heard through the grape vine that now edwardstown have come into the sfl maybe phos camden may join to. If this is so the sfl maybe split into 2 confrences, one involving eight clubs down the city side of the hill and eight clubs up the hill.

Northern Confrence

Marion
Edwardstown
Phos
happy Valley
Cove
Brighton
Morphie Parks
Flaggies


Southern Confrence

Morphett Vale
Porties
Hackham
Lonsdale
Aldinga
Norlunga
Reynella
Christies

Have a 15 round season with each team palying each other twice making it fairer for all. Then at the end of the season have a champions v's champions game. No need for promotion or relegation each year. What are everyones thoughts?
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Re: Edwardstown still looking

Postby mrf » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:50 am

the back pocket wrote:I have heard through the grape vine that now edwardstown have come into the sfl maybe phos camden may join to. If this is so the sfl maybe split into 2 confrences, one involving eight clubs down the city side of the hill and eight clubs up the hill.

Northern Confrence

Marion
Edwardstown
Phos
happy Valley
Cove
Brighton
Morphie Parks
Flaggies


Southern Confrence

Morphett Vale
Porties
Hackham
Lonsdale
Aldinga
Norlunga
Reynella
Christies

Have a 15 round season with each team palying each other twice making it fairer for all. Then at the end of the season have a champions v's champions game. No need for promotion or relegation each year. What are everyones thoughts?


I like your thoughts but this could not happen. Have a look at the southern conference. Very uneven competition but at the same time a good idea.
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