Rate Port's Tank

[Wedgie]

Ahh, god bless SOME Crows supporters, so cocky following such a mediocre team.

[Macca19]

Marlon Motlop to make his debut this week, after Matthew Westhoff made his last week. Players like Farmer, Westhoff and Salter have also been gifted games.

I was going to leave it but honestly...how you can have a crack at Farmer is beyond me. If this guy was either in a Norwood or Crows guernsey you'd be creaming your pants. Hes had at the very least the equal to if not better year than Petrenko has but youve been pushing his AFL selection for a long time now.

[NFC]

Marlon Motlop to make his debut this week, after Matthew Westhoff made his last week. Players like Farmer, Westhoff and Salter have also been gifted games.

I was going to leave it but honestly...how you can have a crack at Farmer is beyond me. If this guy was either in a Norwood or Crows guernsey you'd be creaming your pants. Hes had at the very least the equal to if not better year than Petrenko has but youve been pushing his AFL selection for a long time now.

Farmer is quality, in fact I think you'll find I said they dumped him after 3 games in which I was basically saying that was ridiculous because he's a talent worth persevering with.

[NFC]

Ahh, god bless SOME Crows supporters, so cocky following such a mediocre team.

How am I cocky?

[Wedgie]

Ahh, god bless SOME Crows supporters, so cocky following such a mediocre team.

How am I cocky?

In your analysis of when the Cows were doing similar to the Powder with the only difference being is that Port are in a better position to do it!
Mate, leave the bagging of the Powder to supporters of power clubs that truly have a right to do that by belting them by 119pts in an important game, ie Geelong supporters! Crikey, the Cows lost their last game against the Powder!

[GWW]

Oh so you're discussing off field or on field matters, make up your mind? THERE IS NOTHING to be gained for a club, as has been mentioned elsewhere on this thread, by playing your number 1 team if you can't make finals, are you the only person in the footy world who doesn't understand this? Not that i particularly respect your judgement as far as judging who is and isn't a worthy footballer? How good did you say Meesen was and is going to be, isn't he struggling now to make Melbourne's Reserves side, yet according to you he's elite. And Bryce Campbell, you carry on how good he's going to be in the AFL, and although he's an above average SANFL player, hes a plodder at AFL level, so by playing him are the Crows tanking??

Salter played all league games with WWT except one, and played in the state game earlier in the year, why the hell wouldn't the club give him a chance to prove whether or not he'd be worthy of being promoted to the main list, stay on the rookie list, or be cut altogether.

And did you put a thread on here when Jacky made his debut a few months ago saying that the Crows were tanking? No, i didnt think so. Likewise Sellar, playing Reserves for Glenelg and then playing AFL, its all about clubs ascertaining how their players go at AFL level, its just bloody childish to come on here and say they're tanking because they're assessing their junior talent.

Haha one sentence about the crowd and I'm discussing off field stuff and can't make up my mind? Really clutching at straws there. Playing Campbell means the club is tanking? Not sure about you but last time I checked we were a chance for top 4…

Sellar didn’t play reserves before he played for Adelaide; get your facts straight. Jacky clearly wasn’t AFL ready, but we were in a good position when we played, so that is completely different to what Port are currently doing. There is pride to be gained by playing out the season with the objective of winning, what Port are doing is pathetic. 14th now? If there were a few more rounds you would be wooden spooners, but hey, some more nice picks to be thrilled about! Don't waste it on another Lobbe though!

You mentioned the crowd in the first line of your post, as if that somehow strengthens your argument about Port supposedly tanking. Whether or not players are in the Reserves or are fringe League players it makes little difference, Sellar certainly wasn't worthy of a league berth on form, but the Crows played him to guage how close he was to AFL footy, and its the same with Marlon Motlop.

And why the hell wouldn't a club play juniors if they can't make the finals, as i said you're the only person i know of who doesn't realise that clubs play players to assess their list, in order to work out their future drafting needs, and the general condition of their list, its not rocket surgery.

And dont worry, we certainly won't be wasting our first pick on an Angwin or Meesen, but thanks for the concern.

[Macca19]

You said in your opening post 'Players like Farmer, Westhoff and Salter have also been gifted games'.

If anything he should have played a month or so earlier than he did. Williams was in Centrals best players for 4 or 5 weeks leading up to his debut game so deserved a game. Salter played state and was strangely dropped after kicking 2 goals and having the most disposals of a forward in the previous game the game before his debut...but with Tredrea out for the year, who else was there to play? The only other player was Cockshell and now its come out hes been told to pack his things.

I agree we arent picking the best team we can and I dont agree with it, but unfortunately the way the AFL is setup, if you're not a finals chance then it promotes losing. Almost every single club has done the same thing - including the Crows in 2004. The only club I can think of that hasnt 'tanked' is probably Sydney...and Roos has regularly held the draft system in contempt (regularly trading picks etc). I reckon its shit and obviously the supporters do as well.

[NFC]

You mentioned the crowd in the first line of your post, as if that somehow strengthens your argument about Port supposedly tanking. Whether or not players are in the Reserves or are fringe League players it makes little difference, Sellar certainly wasn't worthy of a league berth on form, but the Crows played him to guage how close he was to AFL footy, and its the same with Marlon Motlop.

And why the hell wouldn't a club play juniors if they can't make the finals, as i said you're the only person i know of who doesn't realise that clubs play players to assess their list, in order to work out their future drafting needs, and the general condition of their list, its not rocket surgery.

And dont worry, we certainly won't be wasting our first pick on an Angwin or Meesen, but thanks for the concern.

In no way did it do that, it was just further evidence of how pathetic your club is, that's all.

Hang on, Sellar was deemed worthy of playing league football, Moltop isn't, there's a difference even if you're too blinded to see it. I understand the need for clubs to play the youngsters if your season is shot, but does that mean they've made their minds up on Farmer, Williams, Thomson, Bentley? All three not part of their plans? Thomson hasn't got a proper shot and looks set to be traded. The Crows will have him. Bentley was actually playing some decent footy then got dumped. Williams, 2nd year on the list and he's dropped after 2 quiet games. Delisted? You don't seem to be some of these guys a proper go and yet old guys like Burgoyne who is clearly not AFL standard ATM is still getting a game while Stewart is in, out, in out. Strange happenings.

[NFC]

You said in your opening post 'Players like Farmer, Westhoff and Salter have also been gifted games'.

If anything he should have played a month or so earlier than he did. Williams was in Centrals best players for 4 or 5 weeks leading up to his debut game so deserved a game. Salter played state and was strangely dropped after kicking 2 goals and having the most disposals of a forward in the previous game the game before his debut...but with Tredrea out for the year, who else was there to play? The only other player was Cockshell and now its come out hes been told to pack his things.

I agree we arent picking the best team we can and I dont agree with it, but unfortunately the way the AFL is setup, if you're not a finals chance then it promotes losing. Almost every single club has done the same thing - including the Crows in 2004. The only club I can think of that hasnt 'tanked' is probably Sydney...and Roos has regularly held the draft system in contempt (regularly trading picks etc). I reckon its s***t and obviously the supporters do as well.

Yeah fair post that Macca.

As I said in the post above, the player management has been odd to say the least.

If you're making a call as far as output and selection goes, I reckon you're delistings will look something like:

Deluca
Thomson*
Bentley
Williams
Cockshell

Burgonye and Lade are still up for debate.

Thomas, Krakouer and Gray have all gone backwards this year.

[GWW]

You mentioned the crowd in the first line of your post, as if that somehow strengthens your argument about Port supposedly tanking. Whether or not players are in the Reserves or are fringe League players it makes little difference, Sellar certainly wasn't worthy of a league berth on form, but the Crows played him to guage how close he was to AFL footy, and its the same with Marlon Motlop.

And why the hell wouldn't a club play juniors if they can't make the finals, as i said you're the only person i know of who doesn't realise that clubs play players to assess their list, in order to work out their future drafting needs, and the general condition of their list, its not rocket surgery.

And dont worry, we certainly won't be wasting our first pick on an Angwin or Meesen, but thanks for the concern.

In no way did it go that, it was just further evidence of how pathetic your club is, that's all.

Hang on, Sellar was deemed worthy of playing league football, Moltop isn't, there's a difference even if you're too blinded to see it. I understand the need for clubs to play the youngsters if your season is shot, but does that mean they've made their minds up on Farmer, Williams, Thomson, Bentley? All three not part of their plans? Thomson hasn't got a proper shot and looks set to be traded. The Crows will have him. Bentley was actually playing some decent footy then got dumped. Williams, 2nd year on the list and he's dropped after 2 quiet games. Delisted? You don't seem to be some of these guys a proper go and yet old guys like Burgoyne who is clearly not AFL standard ATM is still getting a game while Stewart is in, out, in out. Strange happenings.

Sellar would want to be deemed worthy of playing league footy given that he's played senior footy for 3 years whilst Motlop is playing his first year at senior level. And just because an SANFL club rates Motlop not worthy of playing League SANFL footy doesn't mean that Port feels the same. But regardless, both Sellar and Motlop are some way off being AFL standard but clubs do play these types of players, including the Crows playing Meesen to up his trade value a year or 2 ago.

Burgoyne may not be playing well at the moment, but has been one of the club's best players over the last 10- years, the club is clearly giving him one more chance to prove if he's worthy of a new contract or delisted. Younger players have their whole career in front of them, and often judgements can better be made on them playing 85% game time in the SANFL compared to 25% in the AFL.

It might make you feel good to come on here and label other clubs pathetic and put in a patronising smiley, but personally i think you should be more worried about your own club, and finally you may want to get a bit better understanding of the realities of modern AFL football and list management.

[NFC]

Sellar would want to be deemed worthy of playing league footy given that he's played senior footy for 3 years whilst Motlop is playing his first year at senior level. And just because an SANFL club rates Motlop not worthy of playing League SANFL footy doesn't mean that Port feels the same. But regardless, both Sellar and Motlop are some way off being AFL standard but clubs do play these types of players, including the Crows playing Meesen to up his trade value a year or 2 ago.

Burgoyne may not be playing well at the moment, but has been one of the club's best players over the last 10- years, the club is clearly giving him one more chance to prove if he's worthy of a new contract or delisted. Younger players have their whole career in front of them, and often judgements can better be made on them playing 85% game time in the SANFL compared to 25% in the AFL.

It might make you feel good to come on here and label other clubs pathetic and put in a patronising smiley, but personally i think you should be more worried about your own club, and finally you may want to get a bit better understanding of the realities of modern AFL football and list management.

I understand it, perfectly, but it doesn't change the fact that your club has gone from 2nd to tanking in 12 months in a season where you're meant to improve (maybe not ladder wise, but improve nonetheless). Your talent pool isn't as good as you believed it was and I'd say only Carlile and Stewart have been improvers this season, Salopek too but he never lasts out a season.

[Macca19]

Yeah fair post that Macca.

As I said in the post above, the player management has been odd to say the least.

If you're making a call as far as output and selection goes, I reckon you're delistings will look something like:

Deluca
Thomson*
Bentley
Williams
Cockshell

Burgonye and Lade are still up for debate.

Thomas, Krakouer and Gray have all gone backwards this year.

I think our delistings will be Minson, Wilson, Cockshell, Giles, P Burgoyne, Williams and Bentley (though Id like to keep the last two for an extra year) and might look for a trade for either Surjan, Pettigrew or Pearce. Who knows about Thomson. I reckon he'll ask to leave.

As for the bottom 3...unfortunately theyve all suffered from injuries this year. Krakouer hasnt played in 2 months but his start to the year was very good and he was passable in each of his AFL games. Thomas was settling in well until he did his achillies, but hes only played about 8 or 9 games combined this year as well. Thomas will be on his last chance next year...probably krakouer as well.

Gray I think has taken large steps forward this year, despite his persistent injuries as well. 20 disposals, 12 marks and 2 goals against Hawthorn was a huge game for him (only 2nd game for the year). Has shown he can go into the midfield, has uncanny clearance winning ability and is as good a contested mark for his size and age as any other in the league. Must improve depth of kicking and fitness but hes our Porplyzia I reckon...very similar players. A big pre season, good run with injuries and he could have a stand out year next year.

[GWW]

I understand it, perfectly, but it doesn't change the fact that your club has gone from 2nd to tanking in 12 months in a season where you're meant to improve (maybe not ladder wise, but improve nonetheless). Your talent pool isn't as good as you believed it was and I'd say only Carlile and Stewart have been improvers this season, Salopek too but he never lasts out a season.

Hasn't been a good season, thats obvious, but inconsistency is common in young players, and there's no reason why players such as Gray, as Macca mentioned, can't perform next year. Injuries to him, and Krakouer more than anything else have been big reasons for their lack of development.

There was always going to be a problem with the ruck positions if one of Brogan and Lade lost form or were injured. If the club recruits well, they should be able to cover it, but its a big question mark still.

[Rik E Boy]

Dear oh dear what a rant by NFC. As a 'tank' I'd rate it a zero out of ten because Port have stuffed it up - they've won five games! They should have done all this 5hit before they won that fifth game. A bit of clanger there boys.

This thread is an example of the Crows turning into West Coast Eagles...the only thing left for them is to lord their superiority over their little brother on the other side of Port Road. I love it that the 'Showdown' and the 'Derby' have become mini finals. The real clubs play their finals in September. Keep looking inward boys and more importantly, keep dropping the games after these 'finals' and keep your focus on tearing down your neighbour.

regards,

REB

[Hondo]

To think this time last year I was arguing with fellow Crows fans about whether we should abandon finals aspirations and play the kids!

I wanted us to push for the finals, most wanted us to forget it because playing kids was more important

The "T" word never got mentioned then ...

[JK]

If I were Choco (and I'll admit Im not qualified to be in his position) I would do exactly what they have done ... They will hit the ground running next year and have an added edge of depth to their squad imho, and this seasons process will help them play finals again next year.

[Dirko]

If I were Choco (and I'll admit Im not qualified to be in his position) I would do exactly what they have done ... They will hit the ground running next year and have an added edge of depth to their squad imho, and this seasons process will help them play finals again next year.

That's my opinion too, but I think finals may be out of reach...just. One would expect that Carlton, Brisbane & perhaps Richmond would start a big push for finals, and I'd rate Carlton & Brisbane over Port ATM....

Best thing Ratts did last year was tinker with the team, and get young blokes in and give them a run. The benefits far outweigh the negatives....

[Swooper16]

The AFL draft system is designed to reward mediocrity so why the HELL would Chocko not experiment with his team. The worst he can do is finish with a high draft pick!!

As for playing Motlop perhaps look at Josh Hill from the bulldogs. Eade said he didnt deserve a game at the end of last year but seeing as they couldnt make the finals they thought they would see what he is like despite his poor form in VFL. Turns out he is better suited to the quicker skilful league of AFL. I have a suspicion it could be the same for Marlon.

And if you want to see a 10/10 for tanking have a look at last weeks game between West Coast & Melbourne

[JK]

If I were Choco (and I'll admit Im not qualified to be in his position) I would do exactly what they have done ... They will hit the ground running next year and have an added edge of depth to their squad imho, and this seasons process will help them play finals again next year.

That's my opinion too, but I think finals may be out of reach...just. One would expect that Carlton, Brisbane & perhaps Richmond would start a big push for finals, and I'd rate Carlton & Brisbane over Port ATM....

Best thing Ratts did last year was tinker with the team, and get young blokes in and give them a run. The benefits far outweigh the negatives....

Historically, if more than one team is on the rise at least one of them hit the second year blues, and thats what I reckon will happen next year (you also have an aging Sydney, a St Kilda team that invariably implodes somewhere along the line, and a Crows team still reliant on old bodies).

I think it's all about the start you get off to and Im certain Port will be greatly improved on that front in 2009, Im confident they'll be in the 8 again next year.

[Rik E Boy]

Best thing Ratts did last year was tinker with the team, and get young blokes in and give them a run. The benefits far outweigh the negatives....

This might be ok with Carlton that has an established supporter base. Port is a bit different. A lot of Port's supporters are Port 'Magpies' people. The culture at Port has always been never to accept second best, or at least that's how this outsider views it. Now we are all aware of the realities of the AFL competiton as is Mark Williams but the slightest sniff of not being being 100 percent committed to winning every time you step out on the park is not palatable to the traditional Port supporter base.

During 'On the Couch' on Monday Robert KnoWalls mentioned that bottoming out is not a luxury that the Sydney Swans can afford and I would suggest that is also the case for Port for different reasons. If die hard Magpies fans think that the Power is doing the tank they won't turn up and I would suggest that attendance figures for this season are starting to show that for Port, 'tanking' or whatever you want to call what they are doing now is simply not an option.

I would be interested to know how many games my mate Booney has missed this year if any, cos he loves the Power and he rarely misses a game. How many Booneys out there are going for a round of Golf, watching Foxtel or going to the movies instead of watching the Power prepare for 2009? Maybe they are even going back to watch the 'real' Port, the Magpies who are going full tilt for a finals berth.

No business can afford to alienate it's core customers and this is what Port Power might have done this season.

regards,

REB