Good Riddance

[GWW]

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/07/ ... 47565.html

[The Big Shrek]

The only funny thing Downer ever did was the photo in the Sunday Mail after the last election doing an impersonation of a Kevin Rudd laugh.

Mick, you are an idiot. Blaming labour for housing supply issues when they have been in power for less than a year. Just like the libs blaming interest rate rises on Rudd when he'd only been in a month or two. Apparently he was putting pressure on interest rates by talking about inflation. He should have been ignoring it like Howard did. What a joke!

You're right Mick, there are two kinds of people in Australia, rich people and those who sit on their bums doing nothing. Typical liberal attitude. Don't worry about parents both working menial jobs to pay for their kids, single parents working overtime, homeless people and the mentally ill. You are a joke.

You are the idiot mate I didn't blame Rudd for the housing shortage, we'll just have wait and see how he deals with it before he joins his infamous predecessors. However we can blame him in a few months when the lower lakes and Coorong in SA dies, wall to wall Labor governments still nothing happens lots of talk, the opportunity of the century wasted. Where's Mr Rockstar Garrett - silenced by the party men, don't talk about Downer being spineless. You are the joke mate, the chip of jealousy and hatred looms large on your shoulder, but I suspect in reality you're some comfortable middle class wanker who thinks he has a social conscience. So up yours get over it there will always be people more gifted than you, smarter than you and heaven forbid richer than you.

You continue to talk crap. Rudd has the opportunity to save the coorong and lower lakes does he. I'm glad Howard and co. gave him that opportunity from 11 years of environmental ignorance. You lost the election because you were screwing things up and know you're trying to blame Rudd for the very things you got voted out for.

I'll take solace in the fact that at least I'm smarter and more gifted than one person, you. Don't know about richer.

[Sojourner]

You continue to talk crap. Rudd has the opportunity to save the coorong and lower lakes does he. I'm glad Howard and co. gave him that opportunity from 11 years of environmental ignorance.

Kevin Rudd was interview on this subject on 5AA and repeated a similar statement to the above. I have two questions on that statement, one being that if it is ok to go back 11 years, how is that any different to going back 12 years and asking what Paul Keating and the Labor Government were doing about it? Secondly John Howard did try to put in a national agreement to place the River Murray under the responsability of the Federal Government and he was constantly frustrated by the Labor run state of Victoria which point blank refused to sign up.

Currently there are thousands of Gigalitres in Cubby Station and other Rice and Cotton Farms holdings, under the scheme announced by Kevin Rudd, not one drop of this water will be released down the river to give farmers in the Riverland a chance at using even a part of their water entitlement. Families run Farms and Businesses are currently going to the wall in the Riverland and my observation is that the Labor Party quite openly could not care less about doing anything to help. Considering the ethical standing towards low income working families that the Labor Party is supposed to be specifically focused on, I find this a bitter pill to swallow. Kevin Rudd can right away release some of that water so that these people can get at least 10% of their allocation and keep the wolves away from their door. For him to attempt to divert this issue away from himself is a pretty low act and it needs to change....

[Squawk]

John Howard did try to put in a national agreement to place the River Murray under the responsability of the Federal Government and he was constantly frustrated by the Labor run state of Victoria which point blank refused to sign up.

Correct - a deliberate ploy to frustrate Howard's re-election effort. Now nothing has really changed because the Cwlth just keeps make spending announcements without actually delivering any extra water. I think Brumby has a few too many Labor seats amongst the irrigators and cant afford to do something in the national interest when it will come at his own personal cost electorally.

Imagine if, under the National Grid of electricity, Victoria lost 30% of power in a similar way to WA has lost 30% of gas, and none of the other states would give them any power? We'd soon hear more about the "national interest".

The Murray is the equivalent of the inland Barrier Reef. Its near death. The lifeline is with Brumby and he is turning the other way.

[mick]

The only funny thing Downer ever did was the photo in the Sunday Mail after the last election doing an impersonation of a Kevin Rudd laugh.

Mick, you are an idiot. Blaming labour for housing supply issues when they have been in power for less than a year. Just like the libs blaming interest rate rises on Rudd when he'd only been in a month or two. Apparently he was putting pressure on interest rates by talking about inflation. He should have been ignoring it like Howard did. What a joke!

You're right Mick, there are two kinds of people in Australia, rich people and those who sit on their bums doing nothing. Typical liberal attitude. Don't worry about parents both working menial jobs to pay for their kids, single parents working overtime, homeless people and the mentally ill. You are a joke.

You are the idiot mate I didn't blame Rudd for the housing shortage, we'll just have wait and see how he deals with it before he joins his infamous predecessors. However we can blame him in a few months when the lower lakes and Coorong in SA dies, wall to wall Labor governments still nothing happens lots of talk, the opportunity of the century wasted. Where's Mr Rockstar Garrett - silenced by the party men, don't talk about Downer being spineless. You are the joke mate, the chip of jealousy and hatred looms large on your shoulder, but I suspect in reality you're some comfortable middle class wanker who thinks he has a social conscience. So up yours get over it there will always be people more gifted than you, smarter than you and heaven forbid richer than you.

You continue to talk crap. Rudd has the opportunity to save the coorong and lower lakes does he. I'm glad Howard and co. gave him that opportunity from 11 years of environmental ignorance. You lost the election because you were screwing things up and know you're trying to blame Rudd for the very things you got voted out for.

I'll take solace in the fact that at least I'm smarter and more gifted than one person, you. Don't know about richer.

OK shrekky baby, it's clear you are a middle class relatively well off middle class champagne socialist, that you didn't deny. In case you hadn't noticed Kevin07 is the PM and he can save the Coorong and lower lakes, he has chosen not to. I totally agree Howard and Co f*cked up on this most important issue. If Kevin had done something about this rather than diplomat double talk maybe I could see the change in government as positive. However this gutless prick can't stand up to his powerful Labor "mates". Back on thread, Are you 10% of what Alexander Downer is? What have you achieved Shrekky other than that huge chip on the shoulder? Please enlighten us, prove me wrong.

PS you also haven't explained why "Mr I love the environment" Garrett is so quite, perhaps he is in a party where free speech is not encouraged? Perhaps the ALP can look to that other famous socialist Robert Mugabe as their next Glamour candidate? Perhaps he could be treasurer? Imagine how much I could make with 17,000% infation

[The Big Shrek]

I'm still at Uni but why don't you enlighten us all as to what great things you have acheived before you ask the same of others.

If I was 10% of the man that Downer was, does that mean I'd get 10% of my career handed to me on a plate?

Perhaps I'd get 20%. Downer stuffed up enough for two jobs. Even his mum thought he was shite, that's hilarious.

[mick]

I'm still at Uni but why don't you enlighten us all as to what great things you have acheived before you ask the same of others.

If I was 10% of the man that Downer was, does that mean I'd get 10% of my career handed to me on a plate?

Perhaps I'd get 20%. Downer stuffed up enough for two jobs. Even his mum thought he was shite, that's hilarious.

Yep at university I might have guessed, the idealism of youth, before the responsibilities of growing up and cynicism take hold, by the way did you know your labor hero Keating as treasurer introduced uni fees? OK you might not like Downer, it is easy to say he had his life offered on a plate, it might have got him his first gig, but even his political opponents Kevin etc are recommending him for a job at the UN. This man has served his country maybe not how you would want, but for around a decade that's what the majority of Australians wanted, get over it, that's democracy, not the ALP caucus where dissension is rewarded with losing pre-selection. Shrekky I take exception to your thread, it was infantile at best, it is easy to knock those in public office they give a hell of a lot to the nation regardless to political persuasion, as much as it pains me to say even Kevin and Julia fall into this category. Read your history the ALP's hands are covered in as much blood as the Liberals, no one is without sin. With regard to what I've achieved, not as much as I would want to, but I suppose I've done OK by many people's standards, probably a bit more than a uni student, contact me in 20 - 30 years (when you are closer to my age) and we can compare notes

[Psyber]

I'm still at Uni but why don't you enlighten us all as to what great things you have acheived before you ask the same of others.
If I was 10% of the man that Downer was, does that mean I'd get 10% of my career handed to me on a plate?
Perhaps I'd get 20%. Downer stuffed up enough for two jobs. Even his mum thought he was shite, that's hilarious.

Downer's Mum never said anything to me about that the few times I spoke to her, but reporters may re-interpret what is said through their own perceptions and prejudices. I would imagine she would be forthright about her opinion if it differed, but you can disagree with anyone without it meaning you think less of them as people, let alone that they are "shite". My mother and I have disgreed in discussions with other people too without thinking less of each other - you don't have to abuse or despise those who merely disagree with you about some issue.

His career wasn't handed to him on a plate. He had to win a vote by local delegates, like any other candidate, to get the seat in the first place, and later to keep it. I know, because at one time I was one of the delegates when the issue of formally re-endorsing him came up. It has to be considered each time and is not automatic, even if no alternative candidate has put their hand up yet - they will if the delegates ask the question. Sure, you don't chuck out easily a winning candidate, who is doing a good job, and is well liked by his local electorate, but it can be done.

For example,the State Liberal Party did disendorse a state member for a hills electorate one time after something of a scandal, thinking he was a liability from the press and statewide flack about him. The locals obviously liked him regardless of the opinion of the press and general public, because he romped it in as an Independent. I was puzzled by this until later when I saw what work he did in the electorate for people, and then I realised why the locals had a different opinion from the media and general SA public.

[Strawb]

Good luck to him

[Wedgie]

Good luck to him

Agreed.

[stan]

I dont think downer was the worst pollie we had. I dont think he was too bad at all.

[Squawk]

I dont think downer was the worst pollie we had. I dont think he was too bad at all.

Yeah, compare him to Wilson "Iron Bar' Tuckey, Mark Latham or the current dynamic duo in Neal and hubby Della Bosca.

[TroyGFC]

I agree with subject title, hooray to rid this country of this pompous dh.

[stan]

I dont think downer was the worst pollie we had. I dont think he was too bad at all.

Yeah, compare him to Wilson "Iron Bar' Tuckey, Mark Latham or the current dynamic duo in Neal and hubby Della Bosca.

Thats the only name I know from there. Come on guys im only 24!

[best on hill]

I agree with subject title, hooray to rid this country of this pompous dh.

spot on

[Q.]

I know the story behind the fishnets. And yes, cartoonists have run with it since. I posted it because I thought it funny that Downer had made it into the internet world of demotivational posters.

What is my ilk, Psyber? I am aligned with no party or politician. I'll be critical of any if it warrants in discussion.

As were are discussing Downer, I'd like to state that his handling of the East Timorese referendum was disgraceful, as per UN analysis, and it should have had him dragged over the coals were it not for the fact it was closed door policy to appease the Indonesian government. Blood on his hands.

The man with blood on his hands over East Timor is Edward Gough Whitlam, followed by Fraser, Hawke and Keating a national disgrace. Gough gave Suharto the green light to invade East Timor. How ironic the great Satan of the Chardonnay Socialists, John Howard, supports East Timorese independence and acts to preserve it. Gareth Evans our last Labor minister of foreign affairs, what a great guy he was, Suharto's best mate.

Our nation's complicit nature in the East Timorese saga has a long history, I would not disagree with you there, but as the topic is about Downer I thought I'd mention one of his biggest disgraces. The government and the foreign minister at that time railroaded the independence movement.

We can put each other into boxes, chardonnay socialists vs the neo-cons, and we can align ourselves to a party, and we can defend our 'side' until we're blue in the face, but it doesn't do much for critical argument and, therefore, accountability in politics.

[mick]

I know the story behind the fishnets. And yes, cartoonists have run with it since. I posted it because I thought it funny that Downer had made it into the internet world of demotivational posters.

What is my ilk, Psyber? I am aligned with no party or politician. I'll be critical of any if it warrants in discussion.

As were are discussing Downer, I'd like to state that his handling of the East Timorese referendum was disgraceful, as per UN analysis, and it should have had him dragged over the coals were it not for the fact it was closed door policy to appease the Indonesian government. Blood on his hands.

The man with blood on his hands over East Timor is Edward Gough Whitlam, followed by Fraser, Hawke and Keating a national disgrace. Gough gave Suharto the green light to invade East Timor. How ironic the great Satan of the Chardonnay Socialists, John Howard, supports East Timorese independence and acts to preserve it. Gareth Evans our last Labor minister of foreign affairs, what a great guy he was, Suharto's best mate.

Our nation's complicit nature in the East Timorese saga has a long history, I would not disagree with you there, but as the topic is about Downer I thought I'd mention one of his biggest disgraces. The government and the foreign minister at that time railroaded the independence movement.

We can put each other into boxes, chardonnay socialists vs the neo-cons, and we can align ourselves to a party, and we can defend our 'side' until we're blue in the face, but it doesn't do much for critical argument and, therefore, accountability in politics.

All I'm saying in my opionion Australia's foreign policy with regard to East Timor improved under Downer. The shameful policy continued under his predecessor. Don't get me wrong having lived through the Vietnam era I think our involvement in Iraq was plain stupid, so I don't think Downer is the greatest foreign minister of all time. I just disagree with the sort of moronic comments that began this thread. Devoid of any analysis of what he achieved and didn't achieve. Perhaps we need a sub-forum for gratuitous abuse?

[Psyber]

... All I'm saying in my opionion Australia's foreign policy with regard to East Timor improved under Downer. The shameful policy continued under his predecessor. Don't get me wrong having lived through the Vietnam era I think our involvement in Iraq was plain stupid, so I don't think Downer is the greatest foreign minister of all time. I just disagree with the sort of moronic comments that began this thread. Devoid of any analysis of what he achieved and didn't achieve. Perhaps we need a sub-forum for gratuitous abuse?

Yes Mick, Australia sold out western Papua & New Guinea under Gough Whitlam. I started making jokes about Australia becoming "South Irian" then and this, along with the economic fiasco, was the reason I went from voting for Gough to voting Liberal the first time in 1975. I don't think subsequent governments stood up to Indonesia enough thereafter either, but at least John Gorton had the guts to refuse to sign the US version of a nuclear non-proliferation plan then, and told them frankly he did not trust them to defend us in a conflict with Indonesia. [He was right - Indonesia has oil, and was selling it cheaply to the US.]

Under Hawke/Keating we stood back from reliance on the US a bit which I liked, but the "brown-nosing" towards Indonesia reached new depths. East Timor would not have been supported at all under that government.

I agree with you too about Iraq, and I wrote to Alexander several times about the stupidity of thinking any non-Muslim force could occupy a Muslim country for more than a few days without a backlash. If there was to have been an invasion it had to be UN backed and with someone like the Saudis or Kuwaitis prepared to become the peacekeeping force, as may have been possible immediately after Desert Storm. Iraq won't hold together anyway. It is a mythical country containing 3 groups with no common ground - Sunni, Shia, and Kurds.

The big problem now is that Turkey does not want an independent Kurdistan which its Kurdish population in the south of Turkey may want to join - their oil is in those Kurdish areas!