Monkey Business

[Cambridge Clarrie]

BTW, excellent post Wedgie. Couldn't have summed it up better...

[westcoastpanther]

If anyone doesn't think the term monkey is offensive to Australians with dark skin, I challenge you to come to Port Lincoln and start yelling the term across the road from our nightclub at 3 am. You wouldn't make it home alive......

[whufc]

Called my kids monkeys many times but they never got offended.
Heard my Dad called a bastard once and he went through the roof.
A monkey's a cute animal, a bastard is someone born out of wedlock.
FFS get a grip Ponting you wanker.

How anyone could have someone in their team call others bastards and then report someone on the other team for calling someone a monkey is downright embarassing to this country.

Anyway, neither should matter, what goes on the fields stays on the field, the Indians only reported Brad Hogg in retaliation for the childish Australians and I don't blame them, they would have left it on the field otherwise.
Crikey, the amount of things I heard on the cricket pitch, 99% of the times we shook hands after the game and laughed about it over a beer, if 99% of people can do that in C grade Southern League surley Ponting could learn a bit of class and do the same.
Embarassing.

Wedgie, normally i agree with most of your comments BUT my mother and grandparents are Jamaican my grandfather being black Jamaican, if you were to go up to him or any of his mates in Sabina and call them bastards they would probably laugh with you and totally agree. On the other hand if you went up to them and called them Monkeys i can whole heartedly 100% DEFINATLY say you would not make it out Sabina ALIVE that is no exaggeration.

To a black skinned person that is one of the most racist comments you could use. As for Brad Hoggs comments they were inappropiate to an Indian person as being born out of wedlock is a real no no in there society. It's all about trying to understand a culture your not use to and understanding what can and can't be said.

[rod_rooster]

Care to address all my points Wedgie or is it just easier to focus on a couple you can make generalisations and assumptions on? For example you bet that more people are kicked out of grounds in Australia than in India. Anything to back this up? Why do grounds in India have fences with barbed wire around them? I don't have the stats though. Do you? Why not post them? Also have you ever been to a cricket match in India to compare the crowd behaviours to those in Australia? I haven't so i won't jump to conclusions. Perhaps you have been to cricket matches in India? Care to share your experiences if so?

Jardine and Larwood conducted themselves withing the rules sure. Have any of the Australians broken the rules of the game? Last time i checked waiting for the umpire to make a decision was not against the rules.

So Wedgie, if the Australians are bad sports are the Indians as well? They didn't walk, they carried on about umpiring, they reported an opposition player for abuse they threatened to take their bat and ball and go home if they didn't get their way. Perhaps it's OK for them cos they lost and they aren't very good?

I am not suggesting what Brad Hogg did was right. I am not condoning what he said but plenty of others seem to be suggesting it is fine for Harbajhan to make a remark he knew was racially offensive to Andrew Symonds based on the fact that "they can give it out but can't take it" mentality. On this basis if an indigenous Australian calls someone a bastard then any racial slur thrown their way is acceptable.

As for this:

Should i make a remark to you that you found offensive on the cricket fields (ie. calling you a bastard) and you explain how offensive that is to you and your reasons for it yet next time i play against you i call you a bastard twice more would you be fine, shake my hand and have a beer?

I wouldn't be offended at all and I never explained how that is offensive to me as it isn't in the slightest.

It was an example Wedgie and you know it. Perhaps address the content of the whole post rather than being selective and manipulating what others say to suit your agenda. Anyone would think you were a politician or worse a journalist for the Advertiser

[Wedgie]

Care to address all my points Wedgie

Perhaps address the content of the whole post rather than being selective and manipulating what others say to suit your agenda. Anyone would think you were a politician or worse a journalist for the Advertiser

If I addressed all of your points I would have written a 10 page essay, I know I get bored of reading other people's posts once they hit a certain length and mine was pushing it as is hence why I addressed the points I deemed important.
You didn't address everyone of my points but I wont whinge. And you did address me personally so Im not sure how that's out of context. If you make an assumption which is incorrect that I'd behave in a certain way of course Im going to take you to task on it.

We could go on for years about this so we'll have to agree to disagree, its the only time in my life Ive been critical of the Australian Cricket team.

Just curious but has Singh actually admitted to using the term monkey?
Last I heard it was Ponting and Hoggs(?) word versus Tendulkars, give me Tendulkars any day as he oozes class unlike most of the Australian cricket team.

[Magpiespower]

If anyone doesn't think the term monkey is offensive to Australians with dark skin, I challenge you to come to Port Lincoln and start yelling the term across the road from our nightclub at 3 am. You wouldn't make it home alive......

Reading forums and newspaper letter columns I'm amazed by how few people seem to realize what an historically racially offensive term 'monkey' is, especially to people of African-American descent.

But also to West Indians (used against them by African-Americans) and even the Japanese...

[locky801]

I suppose those that have been involved in racist taunts, have had the displeasure of investigating racist taunts and have seen what can occur between fueding persons in regards to racist remarks being made, may have some idea of what has occurred here. People, quite simple really, racism affects people in many different ways, others it doesn't.

Quite simple it has nothing to do with people whinging, yes Wedgie I agree with you when you say may a thing has been said out on the field, then at the end of the day you shake hands and go and have a beer, if these days it was only that simple, unfortunately the world and society has changed (both in good and bad ways), the days of shaking hands and making up are heading behind us, there are rules and regulations which must be followed, believe me, you don't want to become involved in these sort of incidents, either as the aggressor, the victim or the investigator.

This will not be the last time something like this happens, what has occurred is unfortunate, particularly in respect to the doubt that anything was said, only a handful know if that is true or not.

The world changes, society changes, day in day out, rules and regs change, we just have to move with the times and accept them the best we can.

Wait till they bring equity and diversity rules into sport as well, then there will be fun

[Hondo]

I could call my dad a "black" whatever and he would laugh it off because he's white. Does that means its OK to say it to anybody of any race just because my dad is OK with it?

If I walked in to a Ceduna pub and said it well god help me

Since when is how a white person reacts to a word(s) the test for whether its racist (or vice versa)

[rod_rooster]

Care to address all my points Wedgie

Perhaps address the content of the whole post rather than being selective and manipulating what others say to suit your agenda. Anyone would think you were a politician or worse a journalist for the Advertiser

If I addressed all of your points I would have written a 10 page essay, I know I get bored of reading other people's posts once they hit a certain length and mine was pushing it as is hence why I addressed the points I deemed important.
You didn't address everyone of my points but I wont whinge. And you did address me personally so Im not sure how that's out of context. If you make an assumption which is incorrect that I'd behave in a certain way of course Im going to take you to task on it.

We could go on for years about this so we'll have to agree to disagree, its the only time in my life Ive been critical of the Australian Cricket team.

Just curious but has Singh actually admitted to using the term monkey?
Last I heard it was Ponting and Hoggs(?) word versus Tendulkars, give me Tendulkars any day as he oozes class unlike most of the Australian cricket team.

What point haven't i addressed Wedgie? And c'mon you know perfectly well what i was saying was an example but if you've got nothing else to say than what you have i'll leave it at that.

[Wedgie]

Since when is how a white person reacts to a word(s) the test for whether its racist

Exactly! Leave it on the field otherwise we'll have every word in the English language banned and players will have to remain silent. I could claim I come from a ancient beer drinking tribe that finds the word "Howzatt" racially offensive.

Monkey's offensive to Symonds, Bastard's offensive to Indians. Indians would have been quite prepared to leave their issues with an offensive word on the field but felt the need to retaliate to the childish Australians and who could blame them.
Only other difference being is that IIRC that it has been proven beyond doubt that Bastard was said and not Monkey.

PS Rod, PMd ya not to bore everyone else.

[westcoastpanther]

Considering we won the game, why would Andrew Symonds (who seems a genuine and decent bloke) bother to fabricate a story that he was called a monkey knowing full well the furore that would follow. Of course it's been said, as shown with Kumble's contradictions when he wanted to work it out, then stated the remark was not said.

Why is the integrity of the Aussies being questioned here?

[Andy #24]

Let's not get into semantics about whether monkey is racially offensive. The entire Indian cricket team would know that it was after the furore in the last series.

The point is the Australians have been equally as offensive in the past and so should have sorted it out without all these tribunals or be prepared for their own behaviour to be called into question.

Using the abusive tactics which the Australians have done to people they know can't handle it well is not gamesmanship but bullying.

[smac]

Nothing stopped anyone from reporting the Australians in the past, Andy. At times they have been reported and taken their punishment as handed down.

Why is it wrong to report someone, as directed by the ICC? If the Indians were able to cop it on the chin, the furore would not exist.

[locky801]

Nothing stopped anyone from reporting the Australians in the past, Andy. At times they have been reported and taken their punishment as handed down.

Why is it wrong to report someone, as directed by the ICC? If the Indians were able to cop it on the chin, the furore would not exist.

It's not wrong to report SMAC, it's the god damn rules as you rightly point out. I can imagine the uproar if it was heard by the umpires and nothing was done by Ponting and co, yep they would be the ones being suspended. I cannot believe some of the stuff on here directed at Ponting and Symonds for basically just doing what the rules say you have to do

[Cambridge Clarrie]

I read on Adelaide Now something that sums the topic up perfectly...

"The Aussies are arrogant, the Indians are sooks and the umpires are crap."

Thought that hit the nail on the head...

[Dogwatcher]

That's great CC, I love it!

[locky801]

I read on Adelaide Now something that sums the topic up perfectly...

"The Aussies are arrogant, the Indians are sooks and the umpires are crap."

Thought that hit the nail on the head...

Not quite, the Aussies are awesome and play hard attacking cricket, the rest are woeful, very jealous and dummy spitters

[Cambridge Clarrie]

I read on Adelaide Now something that sums the topic up perfectly...

"The Aussies are arrogant, the Indians are sooks and the umpires are crap."

Thought that hit the nail on the head...

Not quite, the Aussies are awesome and play hard attacking cricket, the rest are woeful, very jealous and dummy spitters

I actually agree with your point that the Aussies are awesome. They are by far the best team in the world even when everyone else thought that with Langer, McGrath and Warne departing, they'd fall back to their opponents level. Unfortunatley they are still arrogant. You can be a great team and still play the game in a sportsman like manner (this applies to both India and Australia).

[Dogwatcher]

I'm amazed that no one remembers how arrogant the West Indies were when they were winning (Viv made arrogance an art form), and how they acted when they were losing. Amazing isn't it.

[Punk Rooster]

I'm amazed that no one remembers how arrogant the West Indies were when they were winning (Viv made arrogance an art form), and how they acted when they were losing. Amazing isn't it.

I'm actually still trying to work out what the Aussies have done wrong, apart from winning...