John Howard's last night as PM.

[Psyber]

What makes you think I'm a labour voter?
Didn't I articulate my contempt and digust for all politicians enough?

"Great Australian?! WTF? Pathological liar who was only PM because Labor couldn't get their act together.
I have no sympathy for his 'plight'. Fat super payout,and will have plenty of business mates giving him jobs. God help him if a dose of real life ever belts him in the mouth."

This came across as very one-sided and focussed on one politician. Sorry if I misjudged and insulted you!

I can see from your "First Lie.." post now that you don't believe there is any good intent in any of them - even I am not that cynical.

[redandblack]

Psyber, I won't requote your reply to my post, but thanks for the reasoned response.

I agree with you about extremism. I suspect a lot of people didn't vote on economic grounds, but because the Liberals had become too extreme and they felt safe that Labor would be a safe alternative.

Most of us have always thought Australia was the land of a fair go and found some of the following things distasteful:

Locking children up behind barbed wire in the middle of nowhere

Denying someone a fair trial for 5 years

Taking away workers' basic rights

Supporting an illegal war in Iraq

Making not telling the whole truth an art form

Using taxpayers' money for party electoral purposes

Ending the principle of government and ministerial responsibilty

I could list dozens more things and I could list many good things, but the cumulative effect was terminal for the government.

[topsywaldron]

Kids overboard.
Tampa.

Two of the main reasons I'm as hungover as all hell today but at least now I'm relaxed and comfortable.

[TroyGFC]

Refusing to ratify kyoto agreement
Me to George Bush
Hospital / Aged Care facilities run-down

All good ones already mentioned by redandblack!

[Psyber]

To R&B
Agreed totally:
Locking children up behind barbed wire in the middle of nowhere
Denying someone a fair trial for 5 years
Taking away workers' basic rights
Supporting an illegal war in Iraq

Happening to some extent prior to the Howard govermnment but definitely extended:
Making not telling the whole truth an art form
Using taxpayers' money for party electoral purposes
Ending the principle of government and ministerial responsibilty

[Dogwatcher]

How is the post you quote a Labor response Psyber? While Howard's at the forefront of his diatribe, he's having a crack at all pollies.....

This is the component I was referring to. Not exactly balanced and it displays Mr66's bias. John howard was not my favourite leader but he did some good too as Julia Gillard pointed out in her much more balanced speech.

Great Australian?! WTF? Pathological liar who was only PM because Labor couldn't get their act together.
I have no sympathy for his 'plight'.
Fat super payout,and will have plenty of business mates giving him jobs.
God help him if a dose of real life ever belts him in the mouth.

Generally, I think pollies should not get better superannuatioin than the rest of the community but JH is not alone there or in having the potential to be given jobs by his past contacts. The rest of Mr 66's outburst looked like padding around this to try to make it look balanced - the sort of spin he was grizzling about in fact!

I still don't think this makes his post a Labor sympathy expression. Howard is of course the one he's targeting as he's the Tall Poppy Pollie.

[Psyber]

TroyGFC:

Refusing to ratify Kyoto agreement.
I think we should ensure others contribute adequately too but I support the principle.

Me [too?] to George Bush.
Yes, I objected to "All the way with LBJ!" too.

Hospital / Aged Care facilities run-down.
This is primarily a state responsibility under the constitution, but I agree there is a great need for federal/state "discussion" or a federal takeover as Kevin Rudd has suggested. Both parties have argued when in federal government that they supply the funding but can't control where the states then put it!

[Psyber]

How is the post you quote a Labor response Psyber? While Howard's at the forefront of his diatribe, he's having a crack at all pollies.....

This is the component I was referring to. Not exactly balanced and it displays Mr66's bias. John howard was not my favourite leader but he did some good too as Julia Gillard pointed out in her much more balanced speech.

Great Australian?! WTF? Pathological liar who was only PM because Labor couldn't get their act together.
I have no sympathy for his 'plight'.
Fat super payout,and will have plenty of business mates giving him jobs.
God help him if a dose of real life ever belts him in the mouth.

Generally, I think pollies should not get better superannuatioin than the rest of the community but JH is not alone there or in having the potential to be given jobs by his past contacts. The rest of Mr 66's outburst looked like padding around this to try to make it look balanced - the sort of spin he was grizzling about in fact!

I still don't think this makes his post a Labor sympathy expression. Howard is of course the one he's targeting as he's the Tall Poppy Pollie.

You may be right - that was the way it looked to me at the time.

As I said later, I can see in his subsequent "First Lie ..." post that he is anti them all, and even more cynical than me!

[Mr66]

I'm glad my views have caused a 'robust' debate.
Democracy is alive & strong regardless of what effwits are in office!

[rogernumber10]

I give him a lot of credit for his departure speech, even if I had jumped off him after a decade.

1. He tried his level best to have all the negatives loaded onto him, and not his successor, to assist him down the track (Costello couldn't even bring himself to say Howard's name in his horrendous speech).
2. He fully accepted the decision of the people and credited them for making a decision they saw fit to make.
3. He rang Rudd and wished him the best, which Rudd confirmed.

John H did a truckload of things in the last 2-3 years that saw me decide his government couldn't continue, but he shouldn't be judged on that only.

Kevin's speech was terrible in comparison. Person who wrote that should be shot for packing 29 cliches into the first 46 seconds (or so it seemed).

[southee]

I give him a lot of credit for his departure speech, even if I had jumped off him after a decade.

1. He tried his level best to have all the negatives loaded onto him, and not his successor, to assist him down the track (Costello couldn't even bring himself to say Howard's name in his horrendous speech).
2. He fully accepted the decision of the people and credited them for making a decision they saw fit to make.
3. He rang Rudd and wished him the best, which Rudd confirmed.

John H did a truckload of things in the last 2-3 years that saw me decide his government couldn't continue, but he shouldn't be judged on that only.

Kevin's speech was terrible in comparison. Person who wrote that should be shot for packing 29 cliches into the first 46 seconds (or so it seemed).

Kevins speech was so clinical and smooth it was caused me nausa....it really was like a script from a bad "B grade" sit com.

If I hear "WORKING FAMILIES" again.....I will scream!!!

Even his body laugauge and hand movements were so aninmated.

Cant believe this man will goven a country.....he is such a robot!!!

[am Bays]

Most of us have always thought Australia was the land of a fair go and found some of the following things distasteful:

Locking children up behind barbed wire in the middle of nowhere

Denying someone a fair trial for 5 years

Supporting an illegal war in Iraq

Hmm and where were Mrs Beazley, Crean and Rudd on that the only thing louder than the govt on those issue was the deafening silence from the opposition benches on those matters. Sure a few members of teh let wing got up and mad some noise but the leaders of teh ALP were complicit with the government on those issues

Making not telling the whole truth an art form

Using taxpayers' money for party electoral purposes

Ending the principle of government and ministerial responsibilty

I'll remember that when I read my SA govt brochures outlining teh govts achievements on the tramline, glenside master plan ya da ya da ya da....

when it comes to govt spin the hack pommie kiwi reject press secretary Premier we have now makes it into an absolute artform....

I can handle you making those accusations against Howard but don't think your side of politics is blameless in the top 3 and in the bottom four examples I would give you credit if you acknowledged the spin doctering of Mike Rann (his greatest achievement was the spin he gave Peter Lewis in 2002 )

PS look at the seats that fell (primarily mortgage belt/ Howard's battlers seats) Workchoces and interest rates won/lost this election. As was proven in 01 and 04 Hicks, IRAQ, US relations, detention centres, govt spin accountability etc are realtive non issues (except to the psuedo-intellectuals of inner metropilitan cities). I'll concede people would have thought about the environment but at the end of the day like always the vast majority who voted yesterday would have voted with their hip-pocket in mind as teh number one reason why 54% of the population (two aprty preferred) voted ALP.

Finally looking forward to all the State premiers to miraculously fall into into line on water, health, education and federal funding now the ALP is in power federally - nah nothing to do with the change of govt

[LBT]

[ teh let wing

Obscure Vietnamese political party maybe??

[redandblack]

Not happy with the result, TM?

I don't recall showering the Labor Party with praise for their silence on some of these issues, but I recognise the political realities.

Some politicians did stand up to be counted, in particular the Greens and Liberals such as Petro Georgio, who I was happy to see re-elected.

It's also necessary to say that it's about time we stopped the bankrupt line of argument that some things can be forgiven, or are OK, because the other side are just as bad or would do the same.

[am Bays]

Yep not happy but not un-expected as my 2nd reaction (1st was you beauty) when I heard we may have control of the senate on election night 2004 was uh-oh power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely....I hope we don't stuff this up.....

Since November last year we lost the crucial middle ground which is what decide Australian elections.

It's also necessary to say that it's about time we stopped the bankrupt line of argument that some things can be forgiven, or are OK, because the other side are just as bad or would do the same

I agree but I find it hard not to respond (bite) when people make generalisations and label John Howard (I'm enjoying the irony of this post given the moniker I bestowed on Rann ) when there is complicity and imitation on both sides of the political spectrum aka people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Two wongs don't make a white hey?

[blueandwhite]

Congatulations to Mr Rudd and the ALP on what surely must be called a landslide victory. The Australian people have spoken with a resounding voice that has excused the liberal government we have endured for the last 11 years.
Many issues have been mentioned on this thread that cumulatively have led to demise of this arch conservative government, and I agree that these influenced many peoples thinking when heading to the ballot box.
My biggest issue with Mr Howard is that apart from all his lies/half truths ,he thought he could win the hearts and minds of the Australian middle class by shoving money in their collective pockets and somehow numb their sensibilities. This has resulted in Australians becoming mean, uncharitable unforgiving and self centred, with a "I'm all right Jack, F--k you attitude.."

One thing that is required for good government is a good opposition. Unfortunately Mr Costello has announced today that he will not be seeking the leadership of the liberal party.
Mr Costello has on numerous occasions over and before the last 11 years of this government had the opportunity to challenge Mr Howard for the top job.

HE DIDNT HAVE THE BALLS.

Mr Costello has over the last 11 yrs made a career out of lambasting the at times limp opposition in the most arrogant and surly manner. Now with the results coming down the way they have, he has the opportunity to be leader of the opposition and perhaps the next liberal PM. His time as opposition leader would have no doubt seen him subjected to some fairly severe payback....guess what..

HE HASNT GOT THE BALLS

[TroyGFC]

Question-
With still about 3million postal / absent / and pre-poll votes to be counted, including about 20000 in Howard's area why do they conced defeat so quickly? Surely it's not over until practically every vote has been counted.

[rogernumber10]

One thing that is required for good government is a good opposition. Unfortunately Mr Costello has announced today that he will not be seeking the leadership of the liberal party.
Mr Costello has on numerous occasions over and before the last 11 years of this government had the opportunity to challenge Mr Howard for the top job.

HE DIDNT HAVE THE BALLS.

Mr Costello has over the last 11 yrs made a career out of lambasting the at times limp opposition in the most arrogant and surly manner. Now with the results coming down the way they have, he has the opportunity to be leader of the opposition and perhaps the next liberal PM. His time as opposition leader would have no doubt seen him subjected to some fairly severe payback....guess what..

HE HASNT GOT THE BALLS

As one who has voted Liberal in three of the last four elections, plus one in the eighties, this sums it up.

I voted against Costello down the track for precisely these suspicions. Can't beleive he confirmed them in 24 hours, not 18 months

[oldfella]

In the past it has pissed me how polies get elected and then leave shortly after the election thus resulting in a by election --- this is members of all parties.

While I have no issues where personal health or family matters are involved where it is I am not a leader anymore so I do not want to sit in the back bench that really has cut me for years.

I hope one day polies will stand for an election and MEET their commitment to their electorate and represent them for the full term and then retire at the election.

I say again this is aimed at no particular party as most former leaders do it.

[mighty_tiger_79]

You can say what you like about Mr Howard but he did the job he did because he genuinely (rightfully or wrongfully) thought he was helping make this a better country.
If he was in it for the money or the super he would have been working in private sector and wouldn't have been in politics for so long.

I got to chat to a few of the AFP that 'minded' Howard whenever he came to Adelaide.
They said the guy was a freak, up at 5am to start his working day, off for a walk and then worked till midnight every night, young fit guys struggled to keep up with him for a third of his day.

I hope Mr Rudd is prepared for the same sort of work ethic.

rudd will be out to after midnight at strippers, but sleeping in till lunchtime