The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

[CUTTERMAN]

Interestingly on SEN last night I think they were interviewing a GWS coach (didn't catch his name), Rucci bought up something to do with the VFL reserves comp and player development. The coach said the other AFL teams weren't too concerned with winning it was just about developing as many of the AFL players as they could. Basically, the performance of the AFL team wasn't correlated to the performance of the reserves. It was as much a "red herring" when Sanderson initiated it as it is now. Of the six AFL teams in the top 8 that also have a VFL reserves side only one has a reserves team in their top 10. What a stupid decision it was in 2014.

Current AFL ladder position Current VFL ladder position

1 Sydney 12th
2 Carlton bottom (21st)
3 Essendon 18th
4 Collingwood 19th
5 Freo
6 GWS 13th
7 Geelong 4th
8 Port

That was Sturt coach Marty Mattner I’d say, as he was referring to his time at Sydney you may have thought he was a GWS coach. It was a good discussion and good to hear someone finally putting some valid facts to muppets like Rucci who parrot the AFL/Port line.
From my counting this is how SANFL finals series have stacked up since 2014. Happy to be corrected if there’s any errors.

Since 2014
F- Finals played.
GF- Grand finals played.
P- Premierships.
FS- Final series played.

Sturt - F-18 GF-3 P-2 FS- 7

WWT - F-16 GF-4 P-2 FS-7

Norwood - F-15 GF-3 P-2 FS-7

Adelaide - F-15 GF-0 P-0 FS-5

Port Power Res. - F-12 GF-3 P-0 FS-5

South- F-11 GF-0 P-0 FS-5

North Adelaide - F-9 GF-3 P-1 FS-4

Glenelg - F-8 GF-3 P-2 FS-6

Centrals - F-8 GF-0 P-0 FS-4

West - F-4 GF-1 P-1 FS-1

What also is never mentioned is the restrictions SANFL clubs face….it’s only what the poor AFL reserves teams face.

-Reserves teams have access to the mid season draft, rookie draft and main draft, SANFL clubs don’t, it’s highly likely SANFL clubs will lose players to both reserves teams through the drafts.

-SANFL clubs have to pay a transfer fee to trade in a player from another SANFL club, reserves teams don’t.

-SANFL clubs are heavily restricted by a salary cap, reserves teams drastically exceed the SANFL salary cap every week.

-SANFL clubs have to show a minimum turnover profit every year or they get trade sanctions

[saintal]

Recent article...

The SANFL’s stand-alone clubs want Adelaide and Port Adelaide to focus on recruiting interstate talent – rather than plunder their backyards – as negotiations ramp up over improved concessions the AFL clubs will be granted to continue to field teams in the local league.
With the AFL putting a potential AFL reserves competition on hold indefinitely, the Crows and Port will again have their reserves sides play in the SANFL next season provided there is a rule tweak allowing them to access better top-up talent.

South Australia’s two AFL clubs have long threatened to pull their seconds teams out of the SANFL and play in either a national reserves competition or the VFL if they can’t improve their top-up lists, claiming the lack of supplementary talent is hindering the development of their young AFL players.

It is understood Adelaide and Port want greater access to promising SANFL talent, including under the SANFL Rookie Program, which this season netted Port former Norwood defender Logan Evans, who it later selected in the AFL mid-season rookie draft.

The Crows signed father-son prospect Tyler Welsh – the son of four-times Adelaide leading goalkicker Scott Welsh – from Woodville-West Torrens under the same program and are expected to take him in this year’s national draft.

A SANFL subcommittee working through the concessions that Port and the Crows will be offered to continue in the 10-club state league competition met with club chief executives on Monday afternoon.
Norwood chief executive James Fantasia, who spent many years in the AFL system as recruiting manager at Adelaide, general manager of football for the Western Bulldogs and football manager at Hawthorn, said the two AFL clubs should not be allowed to rob SANFL clubs of talented kids they had developed just to top up their sides.

He said the Crows and Port should instead recruit non AFL-listed players from interstate clubs, which would in turn bolster the standard of the SANFL. “My biggest concern is that if you are going to keep giving them concessions, don’t make rules which would allow them to have an easy pick off our list,’’ Fantasia said. “They should be encouraged to bring players into our competition and who might ultimately stay here, rather than draw on players from other SANFL clubs.’’

Examples include Port signing Jed Hagan from the WAFL last year and Adelaide recruiting former St Kilda and Collingwood-listed midfielder Nathan Freeman in 2022. The Crows also signed Tasmanian midfielder Oliver Davis to their SANFL squad in 2021 before he later joined South Adelaide.

It is understood that in early negotiations, SA’s two AFL clubs have asked to tap further into the SANFL Rookie Program in a bid to have more draftable SA talent at their disposal while also wanting access to two under-22 players and one over 23 player from local rivals. One rival SANFL CEO, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said the Crows and Port should be forced to pay transfer fees to secure other SANFL talent. A transfer system is in place among the eight stand-alone clubs.

The stand-alone clubs understand the SANFL’s desire to keep the state’s two AFL clubs’ reserves teams in the local competition but fear improved concessions, which will include fixture equality, will give them a massive leg up on their state league rivals.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opi ... 8b45bfbfa2

[Jimmy_041]

Just give them everything
**** everybody else

[Aerie]

Is the SA Football Commission on the same page as the League clubs on this?

If a vote was to take place tomorrow, would it still be 6-2?

[mighty_tiger_79]

Is the SA Football Commission on the same page as the League clubs on this?

If a vote was to take place tomorrow, would it still be 6-2?

No

[Aerie]

Semi-seriously, but mainly just a thought fart, there is a fair bit of alignment between Woodville-West Torrens and both AFL clubs. Historically, from Port Natives transitioning to Natives and then to West Torrens in the 1890's. To war time merger between Port and Torrens in the 1940's. To Woodville coming in the 1960's to disrupt West Torrens and Port zones. To Port's secret AFL application in 1990 and subsequently, formation of the Crows, which brought about a hasty merger between Woodville and West Torrens. First trial games between the new Eagles and Crows and sharing of Football Park as a home ground in 1991. A take over of all of Port Adelaide's metro zone by Woodville-West Torrens after Port gave up junior teams to enter AFL Reserves in the SANFL in the 2010's. And most recently, a signing on the dotted line to make Thebarton Oval the Crows forever home.

Woodville Oval is sandwiched in between Alberton Oval and Thebarton Oval and Woodville-West Torrens has strong present day and historical links close to both ovals and everything in between.

What if Woodville-West Torrens became a feeder club of top up players to both AFL Reserves teams? Return the country zone to the SANFL pool, and country zones to be redistributed between the other seven clubs. An extension of the Eagles metro zone to include former West Torrens zones north of the River Torrens and Henley Beach Rd, head north at Park 25 along Port Road, then north again at South Road through to the wetlands.

Woodville-West Torrens Eagles to remain part of the 8 club junior program, but it's metro zone split in two, for the purposes of transitioning to senior football, depending on if you live on the Port Adelaide side of Woodville Oval, or the West Torrens side of Woodville Oval.

Port Adelaide to enter a Reserves team again, based at the Eagles facility at Ottoway, to develop players from U18 level for SANFL league football, of which top ups can freely play for Port's AFL Reserves SANFL team, dressed up in Magpies clothing.

Meanwhile, the Crows, dressed up in Eagles clothing, can play league games as Woodville-West Torrens Eagles, with top ups freely moving up from the Woodville-West Torrens Reserves, based at Woodville Oval. League games could be played at both Woodville and Thebarton.

Salary Cap restrictions and some experience/age related restrictions based on the number of AFL listed players available on game day.

What does this do for SA football? It encourages the Crows and Port to invest in at least some portion of development in our state to ensure they have strong enough top up players to help the development of their AFL players for AFL football. The Eagles and Magpies are part of the fabric of the SANFL - they would remain - albeit in a different way, but both have experienced different ways, anyway, in comparison to the other seven clubs. With 9 teams, there might be less byes! Should also be a boost in the quality of football, going back to one less team. Money saved on transporting a team around the country every second week could be passed on to the SANFL clubs.

A silly idea? Probably. But IF we have to have AFL Reserves sides in the SANFL, perhaps this gives them some substance. Can always go back on an alignment, if it doesn't work.

[Booney]

Adelaide should have got half of Port's zones and have been made to move to Thebarton years ago and like Port would have league, reserves and 18's and the SANFL could cap AFL players at SANFL league level. Port and Adelaide could develop kids in the two's then into the league when ready and eventually AFL level. Make both clubs full members of the SANFL at all levels.

[am Bays]

That is a suggestion I dont mind, primarily because they are all in with respect to the SANFL programs

Only problem then is the strength of their 16s & 18s...

[topshelf]

No need to go changing anything, waste of time. They’ll leave as soon as they can. Should never be allowed to recruit from the main 8 SANFL clubs. They’ve got enough preferential treatment already. Our league will be much better off once they’re gone.

[Jim05]

Adelaide should have got half of Port's zones and have been made to move to Thebarton years ago and like Port would have league, reserves and 18's and the SANFL could cap AFL players at SANFL league level. Port and Adelaide could develop kids in the two's then into the league when ready and eventually AFL level. Make both clubs full members of the SANFL at all levels.

Don’t agree with this.
The Crows and Port want to have the same rules and conditions as the other AFL clubs. Others don’t have u18’s and nor should Port or the Crows.
AFL reserves are the only logical answer but the AFL obviously has other projects with higher priority so Reserves have been put on the back burner for now

[UK Fan]

Adelaide should have got half of Port's zones and have been made to move to Thebarton years ago and like Port would have league, reserves and 18's and the SANFL could cap AFL players at SANFL league level. Port and Adelaide could develop kids in the two's then into the league when ready and eventually AFL level. Make both clubs full members of the SANFL at all levels.

See you are offering the SANFL clubs nothing with this proposal. You needed to sell it.

Port needed to reduce costs at that stage not keep them. The AFL weren’t providing the power $18 mill a year annually back then.

[Booney]

Adelaide should have got half of Port's zones and have been made to move to Thebarton years ago and like Port would have league, reserves and 18's and the SANFL could cap AFL players at SANFL league level. Port and Adelaide could develop kids in the two's then into the league when ready and eventually AFL level. Make both clubs full members of the SANFL at all levels.

Don’t agree with this.
The Crows and Port want to have the same rules and conditions as the other AFL clubs. Others don’t have u18’s and nor should Port or the Crows.
AFL reserves are the only logical answer but the AFL obviously has other projects with higher priority so Reserves have been put on the back burner for now

Agreed, but we're spit balling alternatives to the current arrangement here.

In the model I proposed there wouldn't be any link from the 18's to the AFL draft system.

[UK Fan]

Adelaide should have got half of Port's zones and have been made to move to Thebarton years ago and like Port would have league, reserves and 18's and the SANFL could cap AFL players at SANFL league level. Port and Adelaide could develop kids in the two's then into the league when ready and eventually AFL level. Make both clubs full members of the SANFL at all levels.

Don’t agree with this.
The Crows and Port want to have the same rules and conditions as the other AFL clubs. Others don’t have u18’s and nor should Port or the Crows.
AFL reserves are the only logical answer but the AFL obviously has other projects with higher priority so Reserves have been put on the back burner for now

Agreed, but we're spit balling alternatives to the current arrangement here.

In the model I proposed there wouldn't be any link from the 18's to the AFL draft system.

So it would be totally pointless.

Maybe stick to AFL mate.

[dedja]

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/af ... 90f74c6456

SANFL clubs at war with Power, Crows over top-up players amid discussion over National Reserves competition

SANFL and AFL clubs in South Australia are locked in a struggle over where Port Adelaide and Adelaide can recruit top-up players for their reserve sides.

Allowing Adelaide and Port Adelaide to have better access to top-up players in the SANFL would improve the health of South Australian footy, Power chief executive Matthew Richardson said.

With a national reserves competition now on the backburner at AFL House, the Crows and Power will continue to field their reserves sides in the SANFL next year. But this is on the proviso the state league addresses key concerns around top-up players and fixture equality.

Currently the two AFL clubs have to look outside the SANFL for top-up players and are pushing for greater access to promising youngsters through the league’s rookie program.

This year Logan Evans, who continued his strong start to his AFL career against the Western Bulldogs on Saturday, trained with the Power and played for the Magpies in the SANFL as part of the program, before he was picked up in the mid-season draft.

Adelaide has father-son prospect Tyler Welsh at West Lakes as part of the program.

Richardson said the Power wanted the same playing-list rules as the 14 AFL clubs competing in the VFL.

“In order to ensure Port Adelaide and Adelaide are strong in the AFL competition, we need to be able to develop our players at least equally to the way the clubs in the VFL are,” he said on Grandstand SA.

“When you’re a young player, the players you’re playing with are more important than the players you’re playing against because that’s how you learn.

“At the moment there are 14 clubs in the VFL system that are able to put better quality players around their kids.”

SANFL clubs want the Crows and Power to instead focus on recruiting talent from interstate.

But Richardson said the two AFL clubs having better access to top-up players for their SANFL sides would only benefit footy in South Australia.

“An important element of the health of South Australian footy is having two strong, highly competitive AFL teams,” he said. “What that does is it drives the economy at Adelaide Oval because if they’re both performing, more people turn up and that money flows back into community support and the SANFL.

“We’re operating in a system where we feel like we’re starting to be disadvantaged against the other (AFL) clubs.

“If you step back and look back at what’s best for South Australian footy, at the moment there are some warning signs – there’s less talent coming out of South Australia.

“If we keep doing things how we’ve always done them … we’ll go backwards. We don’t want to be in that position, we want to play our role to strengthen South Australian footy.”

[another grub]

Good t see the AFL sides up and about, adds some real interest to the comp

[topshelf]

I see it's just the Power complaining again. It's nobody else's fault that you're about to slide down the ladder in the AFL over the next few years. You can't keep giving in to them, they will just take take take. Total joke talking about what's best for SA football, they've never cared about anything but themselves. Talking about they'll only continue playing in the SANFL if we give them more concessions, NO you'll keep playing in the SANFL regardless because the AFL said no. It's not even a good bluff anymore, even when they leave to go play in the AFL reserves they should be stopped from recruiting directly from SANFL clubs IMO. They should get used to it now instead of in two years time when they leave. That's not even discussing what will happen to the SANFL if you allow them to. The least thing the league needs is the Power and Crows franchises going undefeated and completely destroying the standing of the competition for them to turn around and leave it in a shambles. Supporters will leave and might never come back. We've seen even recently what happens now when they have no injuries, they are both pretty dominant sides that need no extra allowances. I really hope they don't give in at all on this, it's a dangerous time for the league IMO.

[Brendan M]

WWT CEO David Couzner has come out pretty strong today expressing the club's concerns about the processes relating to the AFL clubs requests for further concessions from the SANFL. I can't cut and paste it, but some of our techo-colleagues might be able to do so! Could be hotting up.

[tipper]

isnt this bit "When you’re a young player, the players you’re playing with are more important than the players you’re playing against because that’s how you learn." a polar opposite to the argument that was made when the reserves sides were created??

[UK Fan]

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/sanfl-clubs-at-war-with-power-crows-over-topup-players-amid-discussion-over-national-reserves-competition/news-story/033847bd0680622fdd657f90f74c6456

SANFL clubs at war with Power, Crows over top-up players amid discussion over National Reserves competition

SANFL and AFL clubs in South Australia are locked in a struggle over where Port Adelaide and Adelaide can recruit top-up players for their reserve sides.

Allowing Adelaide and Port Adelaide to have better access to top-up players in the SANFL would improve the health of South Australian footy, Power chief executive Matthew Richardson said.

With a national reserves competition now on the backburner at AFL House, the Crows and Power will continue to field their reserves sides in the SANFL next year. But this is on the proviso the state league addresses key concerns around top-up players and fixture equality.

Currently the two AFL clubs have to look outside the SANFL for top-up players and are pushing for greater access to promising youngsters through the league’s rookie program.

This year Logan Evans, who continued his strong start to his AFL career against the Western Bulldogs on Saturday, trained with the Power and played for the Magpies in the SANFL as part of the program, before he was picked up in the mid-season draft.

Adelaide has father-son prospect Tyler Welsh at West Lakes as part of the program.

Richardson said the Power wanted the same playing-list rules as the 14 AFL clubs competing in the VFL.

“In order to ensure Port Adelaide and Adelaide are strong in the AFL competition, we need to be able to develop our players at least equally to the way the clubs in the VFL are,” he said on Grandstand SA.

“When you’re a young player, the players you’re playing with are more important than the players you’re playing against because that’s how you learn.

“At the moment there are 14 clubs in the VFL system that are able to put better quality players around their kids.”

SANFL clubs want the Crows and Power to instead focus on recruiting talent from interstate.

But Richardson said the two AFL clubs having better access to top-up players for their SANFL sides would only benefit footy in South Australia.

“An important element of the health of South Australian footy is having two strong, highly competitive AFL teams,” he said. “What that does is it drives the economy at Adelaide Oval because if they’re both performing, more people turn up and that money flows back into community support and the SANFL.

“We’re operating in a system where we feel like we’re starting to be disadvantaged against the other (AFL) clubs.

“If you step back and look back at what’s best for South Australian footy, at the moment there are some warning signs – there’s less talent coming out of South Australia.

“If we keep doing things how we’ve always done them … we’ll go backwards. We don’t want to be in that position, we want to play our role to strengthen South Australian footy.”

The entire comp needs to sacrifice itself so they can win a flag.


What a self-indulgent flog.

Let me tell you how much centrals will profit by port/crows winning a flag. **** all!!!!

[topshelf]

I’m surprised the clubs and supporters aren’t making a lot more noise about this. I don’t think I’m exaggerating at all when I say this could destroy the comp.