The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

[Spargo]

I'm not reading any of that

Maybe you should.

[MW]

I'm not reading any of that

Maybe you should.

Why?

[am Bays]

I'm not reading any of that

Maybe you should.

Why?

because it is a listing of facts based on all the current SANFL clubs at the league level performance since the end of the 2013 season. With a comparison of how the previous version of the magpies performed in the nine years before that.

Quite uniquely for this thread the post consists of a significant number of facts.

[Booney]

Obviously it takes into account the top up rules, if it's factual.

[am Bays]

Obviously it takes into account the top up rules, if it's factual.

No its a strict look at the quantitative outcomes of performances of all the clubs, with respect to finals appearances, GF appearances and premierships, irrespective of the underlying conditions.

[MW]

over what period?
At the end of the day, SANFL wants the AFL clubs in the league, they need to come to the table on the top up rules. Pure and simple.

[Booney]

Obviously it takes into account the top up rules, if it's factual.

No its a strict look at the quantitative outcomes of performances of all the clubs, with respect to finals appearances, GF appearances and premierships, irrespective of the underlying conditions.

Right. I'll give it a miss then.

[whufc]

over what period?
At the end of the day, SANFL wants the AFL clubs in the league, they need to come to the table on the top up rules. Pure and simple.

Do they though????

I thought that table had started to turn in recent times now that all of the promises made and the supposed benefits the SANFL couldn't live without have never come to fruition.

I'm not the most up to date on this though.

[Pseudo]

over what period?
At the end of the day, SANFL wants the AFL clubs in the league, they need to come to the table on the top up rules. Pure and simple.

[Dogs64]

over what period?
At the end of the day, SANFL wants the AFL clubs in the league, they need to come to the table on the top up rules. Pure and simple.

What do you mean what period? At the end of the day if the SANFL wants the AFL clubs in the league, why does the SANFL need to come to the table on the top up rules?
"Pure and simple", hypothetically Port and Adelaide come to the SANFL and say, "we want greater concessions for top ups". SANFL say "no". Port and Crows say.... "?", or do they say, "we'll threaten to join the amateur league and take our 3,000 supporters that attend each week with us, and your comp will be like it was in 2020"

[StrayDog]

I'm not reading any of that

Maybe you should.

Why?

because it is a listing of facts based on all the current SANFL clubs at the league level performance since the end of the 2013 season. With a comparison of how the previous version of the magpies performed in the nine years before that.

Quite uniquely for this thread the post consists of a significant number of facts.

Nicely put.

Although, I'd suggest that the first third(ish) of the last sentence might best apply to the obtuse, dismissive apologetics glamourising this farce for nigh on 11 years, across numerous media, including this site.

[StrayDog]

[

[Jimmy_041]

over what period?
At the end of the day, SANFL wants the AFL clubs in the league, they need to come to the table on the top up rules. Pure and simple.

What do you mean what period? At the end of the day if the SANFL wants the AFL clubs in the league, why does the SANFL need to come to the table on the top up rules?
"Pure and simple", hypothetically Port and Adelaide come to the SANFL and say, "we want greater concessions for top ups". SANFL say "no". Port and Crows say.... "?", or do they say, "we'll threaten to join the amateur league and take our 3,000 supporters that attend each week with us, and your comp will be like it was in 2020"

It was a lie the first time and will never happen
Why would the AdFL f*** up their competition - they aren't as stupid as the SANFL

[dedja]

The SANFL is obsessed with the mythical notion of ‘the best competition outside of the AFL’ and it’s distorting their brains.

There is NO, and I repeat, NO, structure that allows Port and the Crows to compete in the SANFL with equal conditions to the SANFL clubs … it’s just not possible.

The 8 SANFL and 2 AFL clubs operate on completely different bases, and have very different motivations, which is understandable.

Let’s stop pretending that there is a solution here .. there is none. A bastardised solution helps no-one, and will continue to frustrate everyone except the SANFL Commission who will self congratulate themselves for a job well done and in their minds, saving the competition.

I’ve seen this behaviour on the inside and it drives me crazy, as did the apathy of most of the SANFL clubs whose Boards and League Directors just idly sat on their hands.

Port and the Crows have different needs and that’s more than OK, no problem at all with that. The SANFL clubs want to keep being community based clubs to operate on a sustainable basis and be successful on field. Again, that’s all fine and dandy.

The SANFL, through the SMA, were provided a guaranteed source of income from Adelaide Oval by the State Government. Just concentrate on that and maximise the financial benefit and use the funds wisely to support football in this state, and let the AFL teams go.

The competition won’t disappear … it won’t become irrelevant … it will survive.

Look at the crowds and interest now … very little of that comes from the supporters of the AFL clubs.

Just accept the world we live and stop trying to be something you’re not.

The only thing I’m not taking into account is that it’s actually the AFL who are pressuring the SANFL to keep Port and Crows in the competition and to keep them happy, as it’s cheaper for the AFL and allows them to continue to flex their might against the League.

In this scenario, the SANFL would be shitting themselves that the AFL will squeeze them, but they have already been doing this for years.

[Jimmy_041]

I'm so sick of hearing the spin from Koch and co. on the inequity facing their professional teams. Unfortunately, our SANFL commission seems insipid always bending over to the AFL clubs to the detriment of the competition they're appointed to "manage". Most SANFL supporters don't understand the logic of the SANFL wanting to retain the AFL reserves, in what was a failed change in 2014 for all stakeholders (except perhaps Norwood), by any measurement or indicators. If murmurings are true, that the SANFL is going to bend over yet again and provide further concessions to Port and Adelaie based on one poor season and given the AFL don't want Port or Adelaide in a National reserves comp, it will make it a greater farce.

In the nine seasons since the failed reserve's introduction (excluding 2020 Covid when they did not compete, WWT premiers v North) the facts are.

Grand Finals Played in and won
Norwood 3 2
Sturt 3 2
Glenelg 3 2
WWT 3 1
Port 3 0
North 2 1
West 1 1
Adelaide 0 0
South 0 0
Central 0 0

(If Port hadn't lost to Norwood by 4 points in the 2014 and had won, then they'd only be behind Sturt and Glenelg by one premiership won).

Finals series played in; Norwood 7, Sturt 7, WWT 6, Port 5, Adelaide 4, Glenelg 4, South 4, Central 4, North 3, West 1 Adelaide has one wooden spoon, Port none.
The AFL reserves teams have been more "successful" than their AFL teams. Port AFL has played in 4 of 9 and Adelaide 3 of 9 finals series. In 2020 when there were no reserves teams playing Port were minor premiers and Adelaide Wooden spooners.
What Port don't like to talk about is the 9 seasons prior to the AFL reserves entering they made the finals 3 out of 9 years, no Grand finals. So, their reserves team has performed better over 9 seasons than the Magpies did (with their recruitment zones, reserves and juniors). And from 2000 to 2013 playing in 5 of 14 finals series, no Grand Finals..
Hoping the SANFL call their bluff, ignore Koch the king of spin, and stick to the facts.

Well done

[Pseudo]

Let’s stop pretending that there is a solution here .. there is none..

You mean, besides booting them out?

[Dogs64]

Interestingly on SEN last night I think they were interviewing a GWS coach (didn't catch his name), Rucci bought up something to do with the VFL reserves comp and player development. The coach said the other AFL teams weren't too concerned with winning it was just about developing as many of the AFL players as they could. Basically, the performance of the AFL team wasn't correlated to the performance of the reserves. It was as much a "red herring" when Sanderson initiated it as it is now. Of the six AFL teams in the top 8 that also have a VFL reserves side only one has a reserves team in their top 10. What a stupid decision it was in 2014.

Current AFL ladder position Current VFL ladder position

1 Sydney 12th
2 Carlton bottom (21st)
3 Essendon 18th
4 Collingwood 19th
5 Freo
6 GWS 13th
7 Geelong 4th
8 Port

[dedja]

Let’s stop pretending that there is a solution here .. there is none..

You mean, besides booting them out?

Read the whole post.

[topshelf]

Power and the Crows have little leverage IMO, they clearly want to leave but the AFL don't want them to yet. They won't go to the SAAFL, once again the AFL won't allow it. I wouldn't compromise the competition for the sake of a couple of years before they finally leave, it would be a complete disaster for the competition if they bent over backwards and made them stupidly dominant and allowed them to win flags easily over the next couple of seasons. We've already seen what happens when they have minimal injuries and can play with a full list already, the Crows and Power have been consistent finalists and the Power have played in three grand finals. They are using injuries and poor list management this season to try to and fool the SANFL into giving them a ridiculous advantage in our league. If the SANFL really want to destroy the standing of our league they will give in to the demands of a couple of ungrateful franchises that will leave as soon as they are allowed to and leave our competition in shambles. DON'T DO IT!

[Dutchy]

18 months ago -

The SANFL has made four changes to its list rules for Adelaide and Port Adelaide ahead of the 2023 season.

The main change will allow the two clubs to increase their base and match payments to SANFL-contracted players, including the nominated marquee player.

The marquee players will also no longer need to be at least 26 years old and contract lengths have also been increased from one season to two.

The changes, which have been approved by the South Australian Football Commission, were made after an annual review of the conditions which govern the Crows and Port Adelaide’s involvement in the State League.

Adelaide SANFL Football Manager Jarrod Meers said the changes would help the Club continue to be competitive and retain talent.

“The Club values being involved in the SANFL competition and we put a huge amount of importance on it, and that was reflected in our results,” Meers said.

“We really appreciate working with the SANFL to ensure that not only are we competitive, but that the whole competition is, to ensure we are the best competition outside of the AFL.

Then this year -

“We’re very pleased with the additions to our SANFL squad for next season,” Kelly said.

Certainly doesn't sound like the Crows have any issues with the SANFL