by mal » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:45 pm
by robranisgod » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:42 am
robranisgod wrote:am Bays wrote:I think great footy sides aren't great necessarily because of their stars they're great because of their bottom tier players.
I used to say the 21st player picked at Centrals (2000-2010) would make every other league side you couldn't say that about the 21st player at the other eight clubs.
The same with the 20th player at Port back in the day and even the Hawthorn teams of 2012-2015 and the late 80s.
Great teams are defined by their depth and their system of play that is reliable in finals footy.
As an interested, unbiassed observer I thought that was always Glenelg's problem from 1974 until 1985. They had their top end champs but their last 4 or 5 weren't a match for teams like Port. Certainly that changed in 1985 though when 18 of the 20 Glenelg players at some time in their career either played VFL/AFL or interstate football.
by Down the Hill » Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:32 pm
by am Bays » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:41 pm
robranisgod wrote:robranisgod wrote:am Bays wrote:I think great footy sides aren't great necessarily because of their stars they're great because of their bottom tier players.
I used to say the 21st player picked at Centrals (2000-2010) would make every other league side you couldn't say that about the 21st player at the other eight clubs.
The same with the 20th player at Port back in the day and even the Hawthorn teams of 2012-2015 and the late 80s.
Great teams are defined by their depth and their system of play that is reliable in finals footy.
As an interested, unbiassed observer I thought that was always Glenelg's problem from 1974 until 1985. They had their top end champs but their last 4 or 5 weren't a match for teams like Port. Certainly that changed in 1985 though when 18 of the 20 Glenelg players at some time in their career either played VFL/AFL or interstate football.
An example of what I am saying was in the 1977 Grand Final where Kym Hodgeman had 33 kicks, but was let down by a number of lesser lights and Port won by 8 points. If they had a Jack Oatey Medal in those days Hodgeman would have been a clear winner but Port had a much more even spread of players. Any team that had an Interchange bench of Tony Giles and Geoff Blethyn, notionally the 19th and 20th best players in the team, certainly had a great depth.
As is my wont I digress but it took 38 years for the Jack Oatey Medallist to come from the losing side, yet if it had been awarded 8 years earlier it would have been won by players from the losing side 3 times, Hammond in 1973, Hodgeman in 1977 and Michael Taylor in 1980. An exercise for someone like the great Mal is to work out who would have won the Jack Oatey Medals if they were made retrospective. Some years like 1971, 1972 and 1976 stand out, others like 1978 and 1979 would be very hard to choose.
by am Bays » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:56 pm
Down the Hill wrote:Glenelg's overall finals record at FP was still very good though. Several of those lost GF's were coming from the Elim Final so they still had a 3-1 finals record in those years. But that often highlighted that they were too good a team to only finish 4th or 5th at the end of the minor round and they probably should have won more flags if only they'd won the extra home and away games to give them the double chance.
by robranisgod » Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:28 pm
am Bays wrote:Down the Hill wrote:Glenelg's overall finals record at FP was still very good though. Several of those lost GF's were coming from the Elim Final so they still had a 3-1 finals record in those years. But that often highlighted that they were too good a team to only finish 4th or 5th at the end of the minor round and they probably should have won more flags if only they'd won the extra home and away games to give them the double chance.
Yes and no, mate.
Up until the end of September 1992 it was pretty good (58% finals winning average @FP (28/48)) on the back of making the GF five times from the Elimination (1974, 82, 87, 88 and 92)
However from October 1992 we then proceeded to go on a 12 game finals losing streak there until September 2011
overall winning percentage for us in finals at Footy park is: 47%.
Adelaide Oval however...
Since the GF of 1969 our record in finals there is 8/12.
RIG your recollections of the 1970 last round and final series? Seems a strange season in some ways.
It appears we made the finals only on percentage due to Norwood drawing at Alberton and us beating Torrens at the Bay in the last round
We then proceed to beat North and Port to make the GF. In a wet one Sturt beat us by 21 pts.
it is interesting that both Sturt and Port finished five games clear of North (3rd position) at the end of the minor round.
by mal » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:04 am
by robranisgod » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:50 am
mal wrote:If they had Jack Oatey medals pre 1981 then the following players would have been considered
Heres a few preceding the first JO medal awarded in 1981
1975 Neil the bear Button or Rodney Rocket Seekamp but its a long time ago
1976 Rick Jumbo Prince Davies undoubtably, the best game from a player Ive ever seen in a SANFL grand Final
1977 ?
1978 Brain Adamson kicked a few goals playing CHF must have been close to a medal
1979 Greg Phillips from memory played a real good game
1981 I still have not seen this Grand Final match, i was too devastated after the prelim final Norwood loss to Glenelg
by DOC » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:26 am
by robranisgod » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:41 am
DOC wrote:With regard to 1979, my memory was that Greg Philips was a standout for Port when South were kicking with the wind. Spoil after spoil to the boundary line.
by JK » Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:32 am
by am Bays » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:22 pm
JK wrote:Imho Taylor would have won it in 78’, although I’d need to watch again. Seemed to be some very even performances across both sides. IIRC Davies, Howard, Downes and Klomp were all busy for Sturt. Whilst Taylor, Adamson, Craig and Turbill probably had greatest effect for Norwood.
by JK » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:57 pm
am Bays wrote:Back to the 78 GF, I think Sturt supporters would argue Des Foster was BOG that day!
by robranisgod » Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:13 pm
JK wrote:Imho Taylor would have won it in 78’, although I’d need to watch again. Seemed to be some very even performances across both sides. IIRC Davies, Howard, Downes and Klomp were all busy for Sturt. Whilst Taylor, Adamson, Craig and Turbill probably had greatest effect for Norwood.
by Magellan » Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:28 pm
JK wrote:The one guaranteed change that would certainly have made the difference would have been kicking more accurately than 14.26 - No possible way for Norwood to come back had Sturt improved their conversion.
by JK » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:03 pm
robranisgod wrote:JK wrote:Imho Taylor would have won it in 78’, although I’d need to watch again. Seemed to be some very even performances across both sides. IIRC Davies, Howard, Downes and Klomp were all busy for Sturt. Whilst Taylor, Adamson, Craig and Turbill probably had greatest effect for Norwood.
According to Barry Nicholls book about the game, the best players were :
BEST
Norwood: Adamson, Taylor, Craig, Button, Rosser, Nunan
Sturt: Burgan, Winter, Davies, Heinrich, Barton
So you were certainly in agreement with Barry with Adamson, Taylor and Craig. I remember Turbill coming off the bench and despite a bad knee scoring a couple of vital goals. The only query I had with Mr. Nicholls' best players for Norwood is Nunan. My recollection is that he had a poor game and was "dragged" quite early in the game for poor performance. Perhaps he lifted later. I, too, will have to watch it again.
I amazed though with Burgan being named Sturt's best player. I know of other Sturt players who were critical of him in the 1978 game and in particular an effort in the dying seconds. I thought that Winter, in his last game for Sturt, played well.
I thought that Klomp had a poor final series. It seemed to me at the time that he was marking time waiting to go to Carlton.
I will never forget late in the Second Semi Final, on the outer side near wear I was standing, Paul Bagshaw plaintively calling "Get a Kick Klompy" as though he was just going through the motions.
All a very long time ago and one's memory does play tricks.
by JK » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:11 pm
by Magellan » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:46 pm
robranisgod wrote:it took 38 years for the Jack Oatey Medallist to come from the losing side, yet if it had been awarded 8 years earlier it would have been won by players from the losing side 3 times, Hammond in 1973
by JK » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:54 pm
Magellan wrote:robranisgod wrote:it took 38 years for the Jack Oatey Medallist to come from the losing side, yet if it had been awarded 8 years earlier it would have been won by players from the losing side 3 times, Hammond in 1973
Interested in more discussion on this - some like RiG say Hammond was best, whilst I've read others who rate Carey's 6 goals from centre half forward as BOG. I was too young to see the 1973 GF live, so I'm interested a comparison.
Also, interested in Rex Voight's performance - how did this stack up in comparison? 7 goals is up there in terms of GF goalscoring, and if we're considering retrospective Jack Oatey medals, then goalscorers tend to be favourably looked on.
by Magellan » Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:02 pm
JK wrote:Separate question again, is this the greatest SANFL GF of alltime?
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