bye bye Mr Rudd

[Dogwatcher]

You at it again Crushy?

PS: Howard's a knob.

[BIG SEXY]

yep dw. im like a dog at a leg i just wont let go.

[topsywaldron]

i just wont let go.

Are you John Howard?

Call the election Johnny, eighteen points and counting...

[noone]

Kevin Rudd's reign as saviour of the Labor Party is almost over...

He has dug himself into a hole by lying about what happened in WA and the government will further expose this truth this week. Politically he is finished and all the hard work he has done in the last couple of months building his status and credibility is now a waste of time. Can't see him making it to the election. The Labor party need to win key marginal seats in WA to have any chance in the election. There will be turmoil again as they fight amongst themselves to get yet another leader, perhaps Gillard??

The Labor party will be back to the same old tricks.....

just thought it was time to quote this once again.

[BIG SEXY]

why post that again? it was a bad call. rudd is like rann, teflon coated and nothing will stick to him.

[Cambridge Clarrie]

Rudd offers nothing special except that he's the alternative to Johnny. Right place at the right time. What astounds me is why people hate Howard so much. My life's ticking along beautifully at present. Low interest rates, good, secure job, etc. Obviously there are a lot of people out there who don't feel similarly. I'm not trying to be a smart arse, 'cause I'm not rich my any means, just happy with life and sceptical about what Labour will do when they (inevitably) get in.

People seem to have quite short memories. Remember why we turfed out the last Labour government?

[BIG SEXY]

i agree CC.

[JK]

Yes, me too

[mick]

This is true for me as well. Although I think the IR laws were a departure from Howard pragmatism into the realm of ideology always a dangerous move as the electorate is basically very conservative, the radical approach taken by Howard may well be his undoing

[Peterxtc]

why was invading iraq so bad in 2003? the evidence (albeit fabricated) was there, they had an evil dictator killing innocent civilians (his own people for crying out loud). fair enough it hasnt gone as much to plan as it probably should have, once more bad planning by the US in my opinion. but in 03 everything supported invading them....I know except the UN who wanted to send yet another strongly worded letter.....take that saddam, now try and fry your country men.

Why was invading so bad? Very simple mate. Cause they were no threat too us. We have invaded a country which was not threatening us or our (treaty) allies. IMO this makes us a 'rouge state'

If the presence of an 'evil dictator killing inocent civilians' = justification for invasion we are all F*$%@D.

Pre war the 'excuse' was 1. To wipe out the (non existant) WMDs then it was 2. To rid Iraq of Sudam and free the Iraq people. Times changed and it became 3. To establish a democratic state in the region to act as a catalist for change now it seems we have set the bar so low its 4. To leave the country with a government (note the dropping of the democratic bit) which can maintain law and order in the country.

IMO the war started like this.

1. Criminals (the bee) attack the USA (the bear)
2. The bear (having been stung) is angry and wants revenge
3. The bear can't find the bee
4. The bear starts breaking 'things' cause someones gonna pay!

By the way the bee is still sitting and watching the bear. Its gaining support as in its anger the bear has upset and hurt many inoccents. If the bear does not 'calm down' soon it may 'blunder' into a bee hive.

If the USA were China and Australia say Indonesia ie China and Indonesia invade Oz on some bulldust pretence. What would you be doing? Prasing the invaders or resisting?

[Hondo]

Ask someone who lives in Baghdad

Evil dictator or never-ending civil war? Was Sadham the lesser of 2 evils?

Unfortunately that mess will take a long time to clean up and its the innocent by-standers who will suffer

I don't think that the US will invade a country like that ever again

The amount of $$$$ the war has cost the US is staggering

[BIG SEXY]

who is resisting though? all evidence suggests majority of the attacks arent from iraqis.

Intel at the time of invasion pointed to WMD. we all have 20/20 vision with hindsight bad move invading iraq? probably. as far as iraq being a threat to us they more than likely werent but they were a threat to an ally of australias (in their opinion). correct me if im wrong but the point of an ally is to have them stand by you when you are threatened.

[Peterxtc]

who is resisting though? all evidence suggests majority of the attacks arent from iraqis.

Intel at the time of invasion pointed to WMD. we all have 20/20 vision with hindsight bad move invading iraq? probably. as far as iraq being a threat to us they more than likely werent but they were a threat to an ally of australias (in their opinion). correct me if im wrong but the point of an ally is to have them stand by you when you are threatened.

Who?

[BIG SEXY]

who is the ally that fealt iraq were a threat?!
U.S.A obviously.

[JK]

who is resisting though? all evidence suggests majority of the attacks arent from iraqis.

Intel at the time of invasion pointed to WMD. we all have 20/20 vision with hindsight bad move invading iraq? probably. as far as iraq being a threat to us they more than likely werent but they were a threat to an ally of australias (in their opinion). correct me if im wrong but the point of an ally is to have them stand by you when you are threatened.

Even forgetting this Iraq instance, surely no alliance can ever be a one way street?

[McAlmanac]

Quite simply, John Howard (with the luxury of upper house control) indulged in his long term personal crusade (IR reform) without saying a whole lot about it before the last election. Instead of taking an incremental approach, he went for the doctor (perhaps knowing he had limited years left in politics). The conservative nature of the electorate (ironically) has found the agenda too confronting. This main role has been supported in consistent trickle mode by issues such rising interest rates (which are no fault of Howard's) and Iraq.

Life may be good (and it is) but there is a perception that the Prime Minister is mean, tricky and a serial fibber. In addition, Howard's famous political antenna seems to have run out of warranty in the last 18 months.

All this has been exploited by somebody who is nearly as cunning a political operator as Howard.

[overloaded]

Don't write Howard off yet...Rudd has NFI how to run a country and the Government will start to expose this in the next few weeks. Watch the polls when this happens and then quote the first post from this thread.

[BIG SEXY]

can somebody answer me whether the polls that are being released take into account minor parties and independents or is it you have a choice of these 2?

[heater31]

can somebody answer me whether the polls that are being released take into account minor parties and independents or is it you have a choice of these 2?

they always say after preferences. I would assume that the preferences are based on the dealings of the latest election

[Peterxtc]

who is the ally that fealt iraq were a threat?!
U.S.A obviously.

Crush. I know of no one who was claiming that Iraq was about to attack the US. Almost no navy. No way of aircraft getting anywhere near metropolitan US and no Intercontinental Balistic Missiles.

Feeling a 'threat' and being threatened are not the same thing at all.

Your own quote from above says it well.

Cheers