This world of our's...

[Booney]

Lebanon has been a fairly safe country to travel through, however, you miss the point. That it may be 'less peaceful' than France doesn't discount the fact that IS also targeted civilians in Beirut because Lebanon has committed troops to fighting IS.

Why does a spectrum of 'peacefulness' make some civilian casualties more important than others to you?

"Fairly safe" to travel through, for the first time in how many thousand years? I'm not going to go placing the value of one life above any other, it's disrespectful to do so.

Any who, France opened it's arms to refugees and the results have been a disaster. Sure, Q. and others will argue the refugees are fleeing the places like Syria and the reason Paris was attacked was their support of the war on IS. Either way it's time to learn from the mistakes of others.

[Q.]

Lebanon has been a fairly safe country to travel through, however, you miss the point. That it may be 'less peaceful' than France doesn't discount the fact that IS also targeted civilians in Beirut because Lebanon has committed troops to fighting IS.

Why does a spectrum of 'peacefulness' make some civilian casualties more important than others to you?

"Fairly safe" to travel through, for the first time in how many thousand years? I'm not going to go placing the value of one life above any other, it's disrespectful to do so.

Any who, France opened it's arms to refugees and the results have been a disaster. Sure, Q. and others will argue the refugees are fleeing the places like Syria and the reason Paris was attacked was their support of the war on IS. Either way it's time to learn from the mistakes of others.

Why do the refugees fleeing IS in Syria come into the argument? They weren't responsible for the attacks. The attacks in France this year have been committed mostly by French nationals.

French modern history and it's relationship with Islam is a very complex one, stemming from it's colonialism of places like Algeria and it's repeated marginalisation of those migrants via cheap labour. Unfortunately, it has provided a somewhat fertile recruiting ground for Sunni extremism.

Thankfully in Australia we have learnt from the French mistakes and we have not nor will alienate and marginalise minority groups.

[whufc]

Lebanon has been a fairly safe country to travel through, however, you miss the point. That it may be 'less peaceful' than France doesn't discount the fact that IS also targeted civilians in Beirut because Lebanon has committed troops to fighting IS.

Why does a spectrum of 'peacefulness' make some civilian casualties more important than others to you?

"Fairly safe" to travel through, for the first time in how many thousand years? I'm not going to go placing the value of one life above any other, it's disrespectful to do so.

Any who, France opened it's arms to refugees and the results have been a disaster. Sure, Q. and others will argue the refugees are fleeing the places like Syria and the reason Paris was attacked was their support of the war on IS. Either way it's time to learn from the mistakes of others.

Yep it's a massive worry that we now know 100% 'fake' refugees are slipping through the doors under the banner of being refugees.

Who knows how many extremists are now in our countries that weren't before

I most definately have the answer of how to solve this, but the people who worried about this happening definately have reason to be worried

[whufc]

Lebanon has been a fairly safe country to travel through, however, you miss the point. That it may be 'less peaceful' than France doesn't discount the fact that IS also targeted civilians in Beirut because Lebanon has committed troops to fighting IS.

Why does a spectrum of 'peacefulness' make some civilian casualties more important than others to you?

"Fairly safe" to travel through, for the first time in how many thousand years? I'm not going to go placing the value of one life above any other, it's disrespectful to do so.

Any who, France opened it's arms to refugees and the results have been a disaster. Sure, Q. and others will argue the refugees are fleeing the places like Syria and the reason Paris was attacked was their support of the war on IS. Either way it's time to learn from the mistakes of others.

Why do the refugees fleeing IS in Syria come into the argument? They weren't responsible for the attacks. The attacks in France this year have been committed mostly by French nationals.

French modern history and it's relationship with Islam is a very complex one, stemming from it's colonialism of places like Algeria and it's repeated marginalisation of those migrants via cheap labour. Unfortunately, it has provided a somewhat fertile recruiting ground for Sunni extremism.

Thankfully in Australia we have learnt from the French mistakes and we have not nor will alienate and marginalise minority groups.

Watching the news now the bomber of the stade de France apparently did get into France under the pretence of being a Syrian refugee

[Footy Chick]

Lebanon has been a fairly safe country to travel through, however, you miss the point. That it may be 'less peaceful' than France doesn't discount the fact that IS also targeted civilians in Beirut because Lebanon has committed troops to fighting IS.

Why does a spectrum of 'peacefulness' make some civilian casualties more important than others to you?

"Fairly safe" to travel through, for the first time in how many thousand years? I'm not going to go placing the value of one life above any other, it's disrespectful to do so.

Any who, France opened it's arms to refugees and the results have been a disaster. Sure, Q. and others will argue the refugees are fleeing the places like Syria and the reason Paris was attacked was their support of the war on IS. Either way it's time to learn from the mistakes of others.

Why do the refugees fleeing IS in Syria come into the argument? They weren't responsible for the attacks. The attacks in France this year have been committed mostly by French nationals.

.

A Syrain passport belonging to one of the terrorists was found and it said he had entered the country on the guise of a refugee fleeing Syria.

Anyone who honestly believes that this isn't how terrorists infiltrate other countries are living in la-la land.

[whufc]

Playing Devils advocate slightly

While 120 plus people died how many lives have been saved by allowing the refugees in

It's such a complex issue

[Q.]

Watching the news now the bomber of the stade de France apparently did get into France under the pretence of being a Syrian refugee

All we know is that a counterfeit Syrian passport was found near his body, the picture not matching the name.

The Egyptian passport found near another attacker turned out to be a victim's.

[Q.]

A Syrain passport belonging to one of the terrorists was found and it said he had entered the country on the guise of a refugee fleeing Syria.

Anyone who honestly believes that this isn't how terrorists infiltrate other countries are living in la-la land.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... scene.html

You're in la-la land. Terrorists don't infiltrate via refuge. It has been well-documented that IS infiltrates by recruiting nationals from within their home country.

[Magellan]

A Syrain passport belonging to one of the terrorists was found and it said he had entered the country on the guise of a refugee fleeing Syria.

That's assuming it's a genuine passport, and not a fake.

Anyone who honestly believes that this isn't how terrorists infiltrate other countries are living in la-la land.

I wouldn't say it's that black and white.

Whilst it may be the case in western Europe now with a large humanitarian crisis and quasi-open border polices, surely terrorists get bang for their buck (so to speak) by infiltrating through typical means of immigration (i.e. via airports with visas, jobs and qualifications, such as the 9-11 conspirators), or involving those who are already legitimate residents/citizens.

[heater31]

Having visited Paris in August this year I found it slightly unnerving that everywhere I went sightseeing there were stern looking military and police with heavy weaponry wandering around the major landmarks. I now understand why they were there.

Having said that this took place in the evening at a not really touristy area so I doubt they could have stopped it.

People think the French are rude and arrogant but if you as a foreigner approach them correctly they would help you in anyway they can.

[Booney]

Lebanon has been a fairly safe country to travel through, however, you miss the point. That it may be 'less peaceful' than France doesn't discount the fact that IS also targeted civilians in Beirut because Lebanon has committed troops to fighting IS.

Why does a spectrum of 'peacefulness' make some civilian casualties more important than others to you?

"Fairly safe" to travel through, for the first time in how many thousand years? I'm not going to go placing the value of one life above any other, it's disrespectful to do so.

Any who, France opened it's arms to refugees and the results have been a disaster. Sure, Q. and others will argue the refugees are fleeing the places like Syria and the reason Paris was attacked was their support of the war on IS. Either way it's time to learn from the mistakes of others.

Why do the refugees fleeing IS in Syria come into the argument? They weren't responsible for the attacks. The attacks in France this year have been committed mostly by French nationals.

French modern history and it's relationship with Islam is a very complex one, stemming from it's colonialism of places like Algeria and it's repeated marginalisation of those migrants via cheap labour. Unfortunately, it has provided a somewhat fertile recruiting ground for Sunni extremism.

Thankfully in Australia we have learnt from the French mistakes and we have not nor will alienate and marginalise minority groups.

How could you possibly know that? To think IS isn't using refuge to send operatives to seek out the extremists and call them to action would be insane. Sure, the perpetrators may be French Nationals, they may be there under the guise of refugee status, either way they are being led/trained/organised by people who aren't picking up their skills playing pentaque on the lawns under the Arc de Triomphe.

[Footy Chick]

A Syrain passport belonging to one of the terrorists was found and it said he had entered the country on the guise of a refugee fleeing Syria.

Anyone who honestly believes that this isn't how terrorists infiltrate other countries are living in la-la land.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... scene.html

You're in la-la land. Terrorists don't infiltrate via refuge. It has been well-documented that IS infiltrates by recruiting nationals from within their home country.

Q, you can't categorically say 100% fact (unless you know terrorists and they told you ) Fair to say it would be their main way (Sydney seige and police shooting) as it's easier to brainwash someone that's already there, rather than move people into countries.

But not to say that they're taking full advantage of being able to move people en mass and largely undetected throughout Europe.

[whufc]

These attacks have achieved exactly the goal

-even the biggest cities are not immune
-they can strike anywhere whether that be at your favourite sporting event, dining out at your favourite restraint, seeing your favourite band
-they will kill anyone
-it can be individuals who have lived in dark using no phones, Internet, social media etc
-raised questions and doubt over the refugee crisis

[Booney]

A Syrain passport belonging to one of the terrorists was found and it said he had entered the country on the guise of a refugee fleeing Syria.

Anyone who honestly believes that this isn't how terrorists infiltrate other countries are living in la-la land.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... scene.html

You're in la-la land. Terrorists don't infiltrate via refuge. It has been well-documented that IS infiltrates by recruiting nationals from within their home country.

Q, you can't categorically say 100% fact (unless you know terrorists and they told you ) Fair to say it would be their main way (Sydney seige and police shooting) as it's easier to brainwash someone that's already there, rather than move people into countries.

But not to say that they're taking full advantage of being able to move people en mass and largely undetected throughout Europe.

Unless you've adopted an "open border" policy that welcomes all comers with open arms. It has to be a lesson to other nations. It has to.

[Q.]

How could you possibly know that? To think IS isn't using refuge to send operatives to seek out the extremists and call them to action would be insane. Sure, the perpetrators may be French Nationals, they may be there under the guise of refugee status, either way they are being led/trained/organised by people who aren't picking up their skills playing pentaque on the lawns under the Arc de Triomphe.

I'm not sure what your point is? Are you saying that IS using fake refugees to coordinate the attacks?

As Ursula von der Leyen, the German defence minister, said: “Terrorism is organised in such a way that (a terrorist) wouldn’t take the risk of taking the difficult migrant’s route, which includes mortally dangerous high-sea crossings. That’s why I ask for restraint when people lump together terrorism and refugees.”

[Booney]

Perhaps, yes :

http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/par ... 7610311319


Seven terrorists were reportedly killed, while an eighth — Salah — remains at large.

A third attacker has been named as Bilal Hadfi, as Serbian newspaper Blic shared a passport photo of a fourth suspected terrorist, 25-year-old Ahmed Almuhamed, who reportedly blew himself up at the Bataclan concert hall, killing 89

The passport was found at the scene and investigators are working to verify its authenticity.

Almuhamed, identified by Serbian authorities only by his initials AA, came into Europe through the Greek island of Leros, where he was processed on October 3, Greek officials said. He was among 70 refugees who arrived on a small vessel from Turkey. Serbian authorities said the same man had been registered at a border crossing from Macedonia into Serbia a few days later.

“One of the suspected terrorists, AA, who is of interest to the French security agencies, was registered on the Presevo border crossing on October 7 this year, where he formally sought asylum,” the Serbian interior ministry said in a statement. “Checks have confirmed that his details match those of the person who on October 3 was identified in Greece. There was no Interpol warrant issued against this person.”
Greece is the main entry point in Europe for thousands of Syrians refugees. European security forces have long feared that IS militants could hide among them.

__________________________________________________________________

*Edit*

Can you rule out IS using this method, sending people under the guise of asylum to countries to carry out attacks?

[Footy Chick]

How could you possibly know that? To think IS isn't using refuge to send operatives to seek out the extremists and call them to action would be insane. Sure, the perpetrators may be French Nationals, they may be there under the guise of refugee status, either way they are being led/trained/organised by people who aren't picking up their skills playing pentaque on the lawns under the Arc de Triomphe.

I'm not sure what your point is? Are you saying that IS using fake refugees to coordinate the attacks?

”

Why are you defending terrorists?

No one here has had a crack at refugees. We're all having a crack at the bomb chuckers who pretend to be refugees.

It's like trying to sort out the wheat from the charf.

[Booney]

How could you possibly know that? To think IS isn't using refuge to send operatives to seek out the extremists and call them to action would be insane. Sure, the perpetrators may be French Nationals, they may be there under the guise of refugee status, either way they are being led/trained/organised by people who aren't picking up their skills playing pentaque on the lawns under the Arc de Triomphe.

I'm not sure what your point is? Are you saying that IS using fake refugees to coordinate the attacks?

As Ursula von der Leyen, the German defence minister, said: “Terrorism is organised in such a way that (a terrorist) wouldn’t take the risk of taking the difficult migrant’s route, which includes mortally dangerous high-sea crossings. That’s why I ask for restraint when people lump together terrorism and refugees.”

Refugees are not all taking "mortally dangerous high sea crossings" to get to their destinations.Movement of refugees via the means of planes, trains, buses or on foot is happening by the thousands across Europe.

[Booney]

How could you possibly know that? To think IS isn't using refuge to send operatives to seek out the extremists and call them to action would be insane. Sure, the perpetrators may be French Nationals, they may be there under the guise of refugee status, either way they are being led/trained/organised by people who aren't picking up their skills playing pentaque on the lawns under the Arc de Triomphe.

I'm not sure what your point is? Are you saying that IS using fake refugees to coordinate the attacks?
”

Why are you defending terrorists?
No one here has had a crack at refugees. We're all having a crack at the bomb chuckers who pretend to be refugees.
It's like trying to sort out the wheat from the charf.

He's not defending terrorists, he's stating that terrorists and refugees are two different types of people, which once I would have agreed with. However, for the safety of me, mine, my loved ones and friends I'm not willing to take that as a given anymore and I don't think the world should anymore either. It's very sad, very sad, but it isn't as clear cut as it may have once been and it can't be disputed. It can't be ignored.

[Footy Chick]

How could you possibly know that? To think IS isn't using refuge to send operatives to seek out the extremists and call them to action would be insane. Sure, the perpetrators may be French Nationals, they may be there under the guise of refugee status, either way they are being led/trained/organised by people who aren't picking up their skills playing pentaque on the lawns under the Arc de Triomphe.

I'm not sure what your point is? Are you saying that IS using fake refugees to coordinate the attacks?
”

Why are you defending terrorists?
No one here has had a crack at refugees. We're all having a crack at the bomb chuckers who pretend to be refugees.
It's like trying to sort out the wheat from the charf.

He's not defending terrorists, he's stating that terrorists and refugees are two different types of people, which once I would have agreed with. However, for the safety of me, mine, my loved ones and friends I'm not willing to take that as a given anymore and I don't think the world should anymore either. It's very sad, very sad, but it isn't as clear cut as it may have once been and it can't be disputed. It can't be ignored.

Of course everyone agrees that they're 2 completely different things.

Your above statement is spot on. Unfortunately , as a world, we are finding it harder to just give these poor folk the benefit of the doubt anymore because of it.

If a dog bites you, you don't NOT pat another dog like it anymore because everyone knows they're not all the same, it's how they're raised.
You do however, approach with caution.