AFL Reserves Discussion...

[tipper]

You would still have 8 SANFL teams trying to win a premiership and 2 AFL teams with players who would want to win every game they are involved in and also a premiership. Every footballer wants to win premierships.

It's not the players, but the whole club that concerns us. There are numerous examples from other leagues where reserves teams haven't taken the premiership seriously. Playing three ruck men in the side, withdrawing from the finals completely, gifting players games, whether they are at league standard or not... It's a joke. Play then in a reserves competition, not the sanfl league.

The only reason the crows want to play in the sanfl is money. It is cheaper and more convenient to play them here. Too bad. We don't want them, and after selling the licenses, we won't have any reason to make things easier for them. Bending over just because they want the easy solution doesn't hold any attraction for me.

[Ian]

Exactly hey crows fans have you ever heard anyone state the SANFL is currently compromise free.


This is a compromise to the leagues integrity we are not willing to accept . The it's already compromised argument doesn't mean jack.

Works both ways, SANFL fans can't use the compromised argument either if it doesn't mean jack.

there are 2 very different levels of compromise, one is workable (not ideal but we've been stuck with it for over 20 year), one in the current proposal from the Crows is all one side, it is an insult to a great competition.

I believe the Cows and Port should have a stand alone reserves team each, just not in the SANFL league competition

[Ian]

just out of curiosity, a couple of questions ONLY FOR THOSE THAT ARE FOR the Cows and Port entering league sides in the SANFL

1/ what is your level of support for your AFL club (member, season ticket holder, sponsor etc.)?

2/ what is your level of support for your SANFL club (member, season ticket holder, sponsor etc.)?

3/ How many AFL games do you attend a year?

4/ How many SANFL games do you attend?

5/ If you support a SA based AFL side, who will you support when they play your SANFL team?

I'd be interested in seeing what responses you give compared to those that don't want them in

[Seaford Panther]

You would still have 8 SANFL teams trying to win a premiership and 2 AFL teams with players who would want to win every game they are involved in and also a premiership. Every footballer wants to win premierships.

You would have 8 teams full of players trying to win a premiership and 2 teams with players trying to convince the coach that they deserve a place in the AFL team. Whether the team wins an SANFL game doesn't necessarily mean anything to them. If a particular player plays crap but the team wins is he happy? He would rather the team lose and he plays a blinder.

[UK Fan]

My main point was why would this cause posters to rip up their memberships, which has been the flavour of the month on here

Simply it would not be a genuine competition anymore and would become a development competition ala WAFL and VFL

When sturt and other clubs play 7 or more AFL players it is already a compromised competition

Why would i not attend anymore ?? The same reason I haven't attended an afl game for 20 years. I absolutely detest afl fans and the two afl clubs. i think they are the most unintelligent moronic supporters who are a complete embarrassment to this state.

They are so self indulgent they are the kind of people who would enter into an 123 page argument without reading a single post before lobbing in their useless "so why don't you like afl"?? And when we refuse to answer but ask list us the benefits they stupidly assume "so u don't have any reasons".

I stopped attending afl due to their imvolvement and having to share time with these traitors. I will refuse to attend SANFL for the same reason. There is only one way I would attend an afl game and trust me you don't want to know what that is.

This will do nothing but further compromise our league not improve it as we have witnessed with vfl.

Why would I stop supporting centrals. First Im not willing to support organisations who i have personally pumped thousands into who is going to ignore its members wishes. why would i support anything that doesnt want to better itself and is willing to detriment itself for the good of a rival company.

I understand afl fans club wanting this as it is a benefit to their clubs. But unfortunately as per usual us sanfl fans have to now put up with a bunch of dimwitted selfish afl fans trying to convince us your doing this to improve us. Whilst it sounds good it is simply bullshit.

We are one season away from finally being independent and we are going to roll over because some are to scared to leave the teet.

I can't and will never respect that.

[CUTTERMAN]

Exactly hey crows fans have you ever heard anyone state the SANFL is currently compromise free.


This is a compromise to the leagues integrity we are not willing to accept . The it's already compromised argument doesn't mean jack.

Works both ways, SANFL fans can't use the compromised argument either if it doesn't mean jack.

Disagree with this. The SANFL have the chance to restore integrity back into the comp by removing all AFL listed players from the League teams. In my opinion, having two AFL reserves teams would lessen the integrity markedly from the status quo.
You've asked why do we/I think it shouldn't happen.
To me there's two sides of this issue with different reasons for each.
Concerning the issues with Port.
They are a foundation club of the SANFL, I don't want to see them get sold out by the Power. I don't think it's fair that the PAFC treat the Magpies as an AFL reserves team, portray them as still being the Magpies yet expect to field a team outside of the salary cap. It's either or, either the Magpies are an SANFL team and play by ALL the rules or they're not, can't have both. As a Sturt supporter it'd make me sick to see Sturt developed players playing for Port against Sturt for premiership points. No other SANFL team has this opportunity or ask to have salary cap exemptions.

Issues with Adelaide.
Whereas Port want to get top up players from the Magpies reserves and juniors Adelaide will need to source top up players from other SANFL clubs. They haven't explained how they expect this to work. So effectively AFC want to go from stuffing SANFL team selections around with available AFL players in the current model, to stuffing SANFL team selections with available SANFL players that AFC don't want or do want depending on injuries to AFL players.
Again, they want to field a team outside if the salary cap. The proposal of Adelaide to play all away games and give the gate to the host club is laughable, SANFL clubs have asked that they at least cover the gate but Chapman refused to do so. Sturt have huge set up costs to host a home game and therefore have the highest break even crowd of all SANFL teams, I think Sturt's break even crowd figure is about 3000. I can't see many Sturt supporters turning up to watch this game and I definitely can't see 2000-4000 Adelaide supporters turning up either. So Sturt stand to make a loss for every game they host against Adelaide. Yeh, errr, thanks but no thanks.

Other people have outlined very well the issues when it comes to finals. Personally I wouldn't care if both teams didn't play finals as part of the agreement, yes it's affects the integrity but what doesn't in these proposals? The problem with that is two years down the track they'll want to change that also. Death by a thousand cuts.

I hope that has given you some hard reasons of why I don't think it's beneficial to the SANFL.

[UK Fan]

Exactly hey crows fans have you ever heard anyone state the SANFL is currently compromise free.


This is a compromise to the leagues integrity we are not willing to accept . The it's already compromised argument doesn't mean jack.

Works both ways, SANFL fans can't use the compromised argument either if it doesn't mean jack.

Yeah we can!!! It's our league and we will dictate the level of compromise we are willing to accept .

Your just going to have to Deal with it

[D14]

You would still have 8 SANFL teams trying to win a premiership and 2 AFL teams with players who would want to win every game they are involved in and also a premiership. Every footballer wants to win premierships.

You would have 8 teams full of players trying to win a premiership and 2 teams with players trying to convince the coach that they deserve a place in the AFL team. Whether the team wins an SANFL game doesn't necessarily mean anything to them. If a particular player plays crap but the team wins is he happy? He would rather the team lose and he plays a blinder.

So does that apply for every reserves, B grade and C grade side in the country, for every single sport? I don't think so, when I played football my aim was to play A grade every game but that didn't happen for lots of reason. I played in b grade premierships and it still ment the world to me. You play football because it is a team sport and you love it.

[The Sleeping Giant]

Adelaide and Port Power would be using it's reserves for developing players first. Winning would be a distant 2nd. Just as the SANFL reserves are used.

[D14]

My main point was why would this cause posters to rip up their memberships, which has been the flavour of the month on here

Simply it would not be a genuine competition anymore and would become a development competition ala WAFL and VFL

When sturt and other clubs play 7 or more AFL players it is already a compromised competition

Why would i not attend anymore ?? The same reason I haven't attended an afl game for 20 years. I absolutely detest afl fans and the two afl clubs. i think they are the most unintelligent moronic supporters who are a complete embarrassment to this state.

They are so self indulgent they are the kind of people who would enter into an 123 page argument without reading a single post before lobbing in their useless "so why don't you like afl"?? And when we refuse to answer but ask list us the benefits they stupidly assume "so u don't have any reasons".

I stopped attending afl due to their imvolvement and having to share time with these traitors. I will refuse to attend SANFL for the same reason. There is only one way I would attend an afl game and trust me you don't want to know what that is.

This will do nothing but further compromise our league not improve it as we have witnessed with vfl.

Why would I stop supporting centrals. First Im not willing to support organisations who i have personally pumped thousands into who is going to ignore its members wishes. why would i support anything that doesnt want to better itself and is willing to detriment itself for the good of a rival company.

I understand afl fans club wanting this as it is a benefit to their clubs. But unfortunately as per usual us sanfl fans have to now put up with a bunch of dimwitted selfish afl fans trying to convince us your doing this to improve us. Whilst it sounds good it is simply bullshit.

We are one season away from finally being independent and we are going to roll over because some are to scared to leave the teet.

I can't and will never respect that.

Out of the 123 pages I would have read at the very least 60 pages most likely a lot more and very rarely is there anything other than posts that only say No afl in SANFL, or the crows can get stuffed. I no longer work at a job where I can spend time reading this forum every day and keep totally up to date so I posted on here to try and get your sides of the story so I can have a more rounded view of the discussion. But sadly the majority of you stick to the same comments and offer no helpfull discussion.

[tipper]

You would still have 8 SANFL teams trying to win a premiership and 2 AFL teams with players who would want to win every game they are involved in and also a premiership. Every footballer wants to win premierships.

You would have 8 teams full of players trying to win a premiership and 2 teams with players trying to convince the coach that they deserve a place in the AFL team. Whether the team wins an SANFL game doesn't necessarily mean anything to them. If a particular player plays crap but the team wins is he happy? He would rather the team lose and he plays a blinder.

So does that apply for every reserves, B grade and C grade side in the country, for every single sport? I don't think so, when I played football my aim was to play A grade every game but that didn't happen for lots of reason. I played in b grade premierships and it still ment the world to me. You play football because it is a team sport and you love it.

yes it does apply. while I believe you when you say a reserves premiership means the world to you, how many people outside those you played with/club officials remember who won the b grade premiership that year?? bet you can count them on one hand. I on the other hand remember every north premiership since I was born. and im sure the other sanfl club supporters can say the same. I don't even remember when north last won a reserves premiership though.

the crows wont care about the sanfl premiership. why would they? their aim is to chase the afl premiership. im happy for them to have a reserves team, just elsewhere.

why are you so insistent that it should be in the sanfl?? you still haven't given any reasons whatsoever why it should be so

[tipper]

[quote="D14]
Out of the 123 pages I would have read at the very least 60 pages most likely a lot more and very rarely is there anything other than posts that only say No afl in SANFL, or the crows can get stuffed. I no longer work at a job where I can spend time reading this forum every day and keep totally up to date so I posted on here to try and get your sides of the story so I can have a more rounded view of the discussion. But sadly the majority of you stick to the same comments and offer no helpfull discussion. [/quote]


same could be said of you. you have just said we are "jumping on the bandwagon" or are "anti change"

we have listed several reasons why we are against it. where are your reasons that it is a good thing to try to change our minds??

ill look forward to the silence. do you work for the crows??

[tipper]

and for the record. the crows do not run the sanfl. the sanfl doesn't have to answer at all to them. if the sanfl rejects the crows proposal, it isn't up to the sanfl to justify their decision. if the crows want to join our comp, it is up to them to present us a case as to why it would benefit us, it isn't up to the comp to justify why they shouldn't. simply, "we don't want you" is justification enough.

[areaman]

The status quo has the two AFL teams not in the SANFL.

To gain entry they need to present a compelling argument to get 6 out of 8 votes.

The process does not involve the SANFL clubs justifying why they shouldn't be in there.

Ultimately if you want to join the league then you'll need to understand and address our concerns.

Comments deriding the league and supporters may make you feel superior but just highlights your lack of a decent case.

[whufc]

and for the record. the crows do not run the sanfl. the sanfl doesn't have to answer at all to them. if the sanfl rejects the crows proposal, it isn't up to the sanfl to justify their decision. if the crows want to join our comp, it is up to them to present us a case as to why it would benefit us, it isn't up to the comp to justify why they shouldn't. simply, "we don't want you" is justification enough.

Exactly such a major aspect of this debate is so easily forgotten, the crows need to make us a deal that's to good to refuse, not the other way around.

If the SANFL says its happy to take it up the bum from Bruce and not Tyrone that's its choice, it's doesnt have to justify that decision to anyone.

[CUTTERMAN]

D14.
You can forget your 60 out of 123, you've asked for some reasons as compared to emotions around this issue. I can understand this and have undertaken to do so. Yet you seem to want to disregard my reply and go on about no one posting any hard reasoning behind their opinions. I'd now like you to reply to all of my points then tell me what are the benefits to the SANFL clubs and give me your reasons why.

[D14]

just out of curiosity, a couple of questions ONLY FOR THOSE THAT ARE FOR the Cows and Port entering league sides in the SANFL

1/ what is your level of support for your AFL club (member, season ticket holder, sponsor etc.)?

2/ what is your level of support for your SANFL club (member, season ticket holder, sponsor etc.)?

3/ How many AFL games do you attend a year?

4/ How many SANFL games do you attend?

5/ If you support a SA based AFL side, who will you support when they play your SANFL team?

I'd be interested in seeing what responses you give compared to those that don't want them in

1/ crows member

2/ no longer a Norwood member but have family who are and have been for many years

3/ I attend about 5 AFL games a year. Work on weekends so can't go to every home game.

4/ only been to a handful of games over the past couple of years because of playing footy and then later working weekends and Friday nights but watch on tv if I am able. I check Internet scores and match stats for nearly every SANFL game every week. Norwood's to see how they went and other teams to see how crows players went.

5/ I would support Norwood as I have followed them for 30 years

I must say that I am very disappointed with the way same SANFL clubs treat some SAAFL clubs. Telling young lads that they have dropped from their squads that they will only look at them if they go to a Div 1 club. This has been happening for years and hurts grass roots clubs greatly.

[D14]

D14.
You can forget your 60 out of 123, you've asked for some reasons as compared to emotions around this issue. I can understand this and have undertaken to do so. Yet you seem to want to disregard my reply and go on about no one posting any hard reasoning behind their opinions. I'd now like you to reply to all of my points then tell me what are the benefits to the SANFL clubs and give me your reasons why.

Sorry Cutterman I did reply to your post but I went to take my dog for a walk and forgot to hit submit. Thank you for your reply and I didn't know that about the sturt club. Your thoughts were very helpful, I have had a lot of people to reply to and I didn't realise I missed yours.

[UK Fan]

Simply it would not be a genuine competition anymore and would become a development competition ala WAFL and VFL

When sturt and other clubs play 7 or more AFL players it is already a compromised competition

Why would i not attend anymore ?? The same reason I haven't attended an afl game for 20 years. I absolutely detest afl fans and the two afl clubs. i think they are the most unintelligent moronic supporters who are a complete embarrassment to this

They are so self indulgent they are the kind of people who would enter into an 123 page argument with only reading half And then arrogantly claim there is nothing else contained in the posts but no afl in sa or stuff the crows before lobbing in their useless "so why don't you like afl"?? And when we ask list us the benefits they stupidly assume "so u don't have any reasons".

Out of the 123 pages I would have read at the very least 60 pages most likely a lot more and very rarely is there anything other than posts that only say No afl in SANFL, or the crows can get stuffed. I no longer work at a job where I can spend time reading this forum every day and keep totally up to date so I posted on here to try and get your sides of the story so I can have a more rounded view of the discussion. But sadly the majority of you stick to the same comments and offer no helpfull discussion.

Edited for accuracy!!!

[D14]

I don't know what the solution is but a plan I have thought about is more along the lines of the port model. Port could keep their juniors and reserves teams but have to play to a points system where they can't load up on SANFL league players but rather use u/18 or reserves players not selected to top up. They could only recruit players from their recruiting zone and not be able to recruit players from the VFL etc. The crows would have a stand alone team but be aligned with one or two SANFL teams for top up players from their reserves sides paying the club and players for their use.