AFL Reserves Discussion...

[whufc]

The decision over enter ting the Crows and Power some way into the SANFL poses a very simple question:

Does the SANFL want to be a 2nd tier competition (reserves) or an Alternative to the AFL?

If the first option, it will forever be seen as a reserves comp (like the current VFL) and over a period of time the traditional clubs will die.
Why? Because the next generation of supporters will grow up to only follow the Crows or the Power and not the Centrals or Wests of the comp.

If the 2nd, the cannot stay as they are (an 8 or 9 team comp), I see a plan that might hurt a little financially in the short term, but could pay off big time in the long run.


The alternative option

Like the then VFL (now AFL) approached some SA clubs to join them, the SANFL needs to turn the tables and ask the traditional VFA club to join them in a South Eastern National Football League.

To keep travelling costs down, the clubs would be split into two conferences, just like with the Australia-New Zealand Netball League.

In a 22 round system, the SA and Vic clubs play their own sides twice (7x2 = 14) and play against each of the other state's sides once (8)... however they would have 4 at home and 4 interstate. A perfectly balanced and fair draw, while keeping costs down.

SANFL VFL

West Adelaide Port Melbourne
South Adelaide Williamstown
Norwood Frankston
Glenelg North Ballarat
Centrals Coburg
Sturt Werribee
North Adelaide Sandringham
WWT Eagles Casey

At the end of the home and away, the highest finishing SANFL and VFL clubs are handed their 'league premiership'.
The top 8 sides (from a combined ladder) battle out the finals.

Now, how does this league become an alternative to the AFL?

The first step, is spending a few dollars. The old VFA use to have a few marquee players that should have played VFL/AFL, but stuck in the VFA for the $$$.

All it needs is 2 or 3 'defections' from the AFL (nearing the end of their career) that can kick goals - see Brendan Fevola and his antics in the bush... it's pulling in the crowd... bigger than current VFL and SANFL crowds.

Naturally, since the AFL have 18 clubs, there's a better chance of more 'blow out' games... they make crap TV.

With 16 sides, there's a better chance of a more even game in the SANFL/VFL.

A combined SANFL/VFL can approach channel nine and say 'hey, you've got NRL on in NSW/QLD, we can fill your TV schedule in Vic/SA' - an attractive option for a TV network.

Now if you have a couple of Fevola type characters kicking goals, crowds slowly going up, and closer games (more TV friendly), the instead of TV channels asking you to pay for coverage, they'll invest in the SANFL/VFL.

WHY? For example, if they have an 'alternative' league to the AFL (with no AFL reserves) Channel Nine for a cheaper investment can hurt the ratings (a small nick, nothing big, but noticeable) and the Billion dollar investment of Seven/Foxtel.

Tell me. If you were at home watching TV and the AFL was on and you saw Hawthorn smashing GWS, but on another channel, Sturt was locked in a one goal the difference game with Williamstown, which would you watch?

Like I said, create a two state alternative (even invite a Tassie side - their state league is stuffed) and soon or later someone with enough $$$ that doesn't like the AFL will come along and pour the money in and go to war.

It's happened before... World Series Cricket... the SuperLeague/ARL war... just needs the right issue to light the match.



But that's just my ideal ramblings

If the sanfl has 2 afl reserves sides or not will not be the reason why kids won't follow sanfl football. The sanfl will always be a second rate comp compared to the AFL, the SANFL can never compete with AFL on a performance level. The SANFL need to market to families, which in turn will get young kids involved in supporting a local team. This deal will get in on this, the SANFl will say they can't afford to do this while the AFL team will offer to pay for it.

How do you figure,

most kids would already support an SA Based AFL club and most likely follow them in the SANFL if they were to have any interest in the SANFL.

Go to an AFL game with Melbourne based teams and see how many kids follow Essendon and Port Melbourne. How many kids that are watching Hawthorn tonight do you think will be going to watch Frankston tomorrow.

[FOURTH ESTATE]

To give you an idea of what will happen next year in the West

East Perth already have 8 West coast players on their list

Peel Thunder already have 9 Dockers on their list.

The following clubs will lose the players listed below to both East Perth & Peel Thunder next season.

CLAREMONT

Alex Silvagni - Peel Thunder
Nick Suban - Peel Thunder
Patrick McGinnity - East Perth
Jeremey McGovern - East Perth

EAST FREMANTLE

Cameron Sutcliffe - Peel Thunder
Josh Simpson - Peel Thunder
Max Duffy - Peel Thunder
Alex Howson - Peel Thunder
Mitchell Brown - East Perth
Bradd Dalziell - East Perth
Bradley Sheppard - East Perth
Jacob Brennan - East Perth

PERTH

Fraser McInnes - East Perth
Sam Butler - East Perth
Simon Turnbridge - East Perth
Ashley Smith - East Perth

SOUTH FREMANTLE

Haiden Schloithe - Peel Thunder
Adam Carter - East Perth
Ashton Hams - East Perth

SUBIACO

Mark Nicoski - East Perth
Callum Sinclair - East Perth

SWAN DISTRICTS

Lachie Neale - Peel Thunder
Murray Newman - East Perth
Jamie Bennell - East Perth
Andrew Embley - East Perth

WEST PERTH

Joshua Mellington - Peel Thunder
Mark Lecras - East Perth
Mark Hutchings - East Perth.

This list does not include current West Coast & Fremantle players who are playing with them on a regular basis.

[kickinit]

wasn't the VFL and WAFL teams already established teams taken over by the AFL teams? I can understand if the crows took over sturt how that could have a impact for sturt fans. But if the crows come in as their own team and the power with the magpies, whats the matter for the other clubs fans. If your team is still playing for a premiership and your not going to support them, then really your nothing but a pathetic supporter. Most of you are sitting here asking why havent the power and crows come out and answered this and that question, do you actually realise that they haven't had the chance to put forward a proposal to the SANFL clubs, and because of this we will not know those answer until they have had this chance. As much as rucci thinks he knows, no one actually knows what the proposal is going to be. And this is the reason why no club at the moment can say yes or no.

Maybe just maybe they dont want to see their side compete against sides with a much larger salary cap, much richer resources, having an unfair off field advantage.

Maybe they dont wont to see players their clubs have spent years of development and money on be taken in the draft (which doesnt give SANFL clubs a chance) and then used against them in games for premiership points.

Maybe they dont want to stand at the footy and listen to opposition supporters sit there and yell out comments like "Who cares its only our reserves sides, you wouldnt get close to our real team" (yes thats the most common sledge i have heard in the many VFL games i have attended.

Maybe the pathetic supporters are the ones who cant think or feel for themselves and blindly follow their club regardless.

Like i said in another thread.

Would you stay with your misses if she went and screwed some rich dude for coin? Or would it be pathetic if you left her.

most AFL players playing SANFL would be on about 40,000, when you actually have a look at at SANFL player compared to a AFL player in terms of commitment wise, you will realise these AFL players are actually getting paid less the some SANFL players. What a SANFL player has 2 trainings session and a game. Being a AFL player is a full time job, you are at the club every single day and most days are full days with training weights and meetings. You also have those SANFL players that are offered full time jobs.

Off field resources is up to your club not anyone else.

Your argument about spending years and money on developing young kids is void. What happens when that kid goes in the draft and goes to victoria, also add majority of SANFL supporters would struggle to name someone in their u18 side.

Port Adelaide football will be about winning premierships as much as some of you think it isn't, reality is IT IS. We ain't going to go to games and say oh well it's our reserves team. Again your using a situation in a different state that is completely different to ours.

[Pseudo]

Again your using a situation in a different state that is completely different to ours.

That is simply ironic, given that the arguments for Crows/Power to get reserves teams in a state league all boil down to "but the Vics are getting them so we need them too".

[kickinit]

How do you figure,

most kids would already support an SA Based AFL club and most likely follow them in the SANFL if they were to have any interest in the SANFL.

Go to an AFL game with Melbourne based teams and see how many kids follow Essendon and Port Melbourne. How many kids that are watching Hawthorn tonight do you think will be going to watch Frankston tomorrow.

Because the AFL clubs will pay for the SANFL to market it's game to families. By promoting the game, setting up coaching clinics. Wasn't it not that long ago that the mini league was in trouble because of sponsorship? If the SANFL can't afford to pay for this how are they going to expect to promote their game?

[whufc]

wasn't the VFL and WAFL teams already established teams taken over by the AFL teams? I can understand if the crows took over sturt how that could have a impact for sturt fans. But if the crows come in as their own team and the power with the magpies, whats the matter for the other clubs fans. If your team is still playing for a premiership and your not going to support them, then really your nothing but a pathetic supporter. Most of you are sitting here asking why havent the power and crows come out and answered this and that question, do you actually realise that they haven't had the chance to put forward a proposal to the SANFL clubs, and because of this we will not know those answer until they have had this chance. As much as rucci thinks he knows, no one actually knows what the proposal is going to be. And this is the reason why no club at the moment can say yes or no.

Maybe just maybe they dont want to see their side compete against sides with a much larger salary cap, much richer resources, having an unfair off field advantage.

Maybe they dont wont to see players their clubs have spent years of development and money on be taken in the draft (which doesnt give SANFL clubs a chance) and then used against them in games for premiership points.

Maybe they dont want to stand at the footy and listen to opposition supporters sit there and yell out comments like "Who cares its only our reserves sides, you wouldnt get close to our real team" (yes thats the most common sledge i have heard in the many VFL games i have attended.

Maybe the pathetic supporters are the ones who cant think or feel for themselves and blindly follow their club regardless.

Like i said in another thread.

Would you stay with your misses if she went and screwed some rich dude for coin? Or would it be pathetic if you left her.

most AFL players playing SANFL would be on about 40,000, when you actually have a look at at SANFL player compared to a AFL player in terms of commitment wise, you will realise these AFL players are actually getting paid less the some SANFL players. What a SANFL player has 2 trainings session and a game. Being a AFL player is a full time job, you are at the club every single day and most days are full days with training weights and meetings. You also have those SANFL players that are offered full time jobs.

Off field resources is up to your club not anyone else.

Your argument about spending years and money on developing young kids is void. What happens when that kid goes in the draft and goes to victoria, also add majority of SANFL supporters would struggle to name someone in their u18 side.

Port Adelaide football will be about winning premierships as much as some of you think it isn't, reality is IT IS. We ain't going to go to games and say oh well it's our reserves team. Again your using a situation in a different state that is completely different to ours.

Exactly so our part time footballers are expected to compete for premierships against full time footballers.

When a kid is drafted to Victoria or in the current system they are then not used against us to win premiership points (massive and easy difference to understand)

Off field resources is a clubs responsibilty but even you would understand they have absolutely no chance to compete with the resources at the Crows feet no matter how good a business plan they have.

I have seen enough VFL games to see where teams priorities lie, do you truly believe especially in the Crows case they woke up one morning and thought geez winning the AFL premiership isnt enough we want to start winning SANFL premierships.

NO MATTER WHAT WAY YOU SPIN IT THE 2 AFL CLUBS WILL AWAYS HAVE THE SANFL PREMIERSHIP AS THEIR NUMBER 2 PRIORITY AFTER THE AFL PREMIERSHIP, ALL SANFL CLUBS SHOULD HAVE THE SANFL PREMIERSHIP AS THEIR NUMBER 1 PRIORITY

[kickinit]

Again your using a situation in a different state that is completely different to ours.

That is simply ironic, given that the arguments for Crows/Power to get reserves teams in a state league all boil down to "but the Vics are getting them so we need them too".

and which team are the crows going to take over? Port are one club and the SANFL team will remain the magpies. When you really look at it what will change for supporters of other clubs.

[whufc]

How do you figure,

most kids would already support an SA Based AFL club and most likely follow them in the SANFL if they were to have any interest in the SANFL.

Go to an AFL game with Melbourne based teams and see how many kids follow Essendon and Port Melbourne. How many kids that are watching Hawthorn tonight do you think will be going to watch Frankston tomorrow.

Because the AFL clubs will pay for the SANFL to market it's game to families. By promoting the game, setting up coaching clinics. Wasn't it not that long ago that the mini league was in trouble because of sponsorship? If the SANFL can't afford to pay for this how are they going to expect to promote their game?

The same way they are now by having coaching clinics at schools, getting out to the local football clubs, getting out into the community, handing out free tickets etc etc.

I stand with roughly 6-7 blokes weekly who are life long Centrals supportes and not one of us played mini league.

[whufc]

Again your using a situation in a different state that is completely different to ours.

That is simply ironic, given that the arguments for Crows/Power to get reserves teams in a state league all boil down to "but the Vics are getting them so we need them too".

and which team are the crows going to take over? Port are one club and the SANFL team will remain the magpies. When you really look at it what will change for supporters of other clubs.

Kickinit you are providing a great laugh for my office tomorrow.

You have 50 odd pages of what will change surely you can work that out.

[kickinit]

Exactly so our part time footballers are expected to compete for premierships against full time footballers.

When a kid is drafted to Victoria or in the current system they are then not used against us to win premiership points (massive and easy difference to understand)

Off field resources is a clubs responsibilty but even you would understand they have absolutely no chance to compete with the resources at the Crows feet no matter how good a business plan they have.

I have seen enough VFL games to see where teams priorities lie, do you truly believe especially in the Crows case they woke up one morning and thought geez winning the AFL premiership isnt enough we want to start winning SANFL premierships.

NO MATTER WHAT WAY YOU SPIN IT THE 2 AFL CLUBS WILL AWAYS HAVE THE SANFL PREMIERSHIP AS THEIR NUMBER 2 PRIORITY AFTER THE AFL PREMIERSHIP, ALL SANFL CLUBS SHOULD HAVE THE SANFL PREMIERSHIP AS THEIR NUMBER 1 PRIORITY

And some of those full time footballers will be coming straight from u18 football coming up against guys that have played many years of SANFL football and some ex AFL players.

How well do you think those guys that play mainly SANFL football go from training to one game plan, but then on saturday afternoon have to play a different game plan. How well do you think those players are going when their AFL clubs wants them play a certain position but then on saturday thats get changed. How fair do you think it is for the AFL clubs to pay thousands of dollars on a kid from victoria to only have a SANFL club that has no interest in his development to do what they want with him on gamed day.

Of course the AFL clubs 1st priority will be AFL premiership. But does that mean when that reserves side take to the field on saturday afternoon they ain't going to go out and win. You obviously know a heap about the VFl to know that was a different situation to what we know have in SA

[kickinit]

Kickinit you are providing a great laugh for my office tomorrow.

You have 50 odd pages of what will change surely you can work that out.

maybe your office will have a good laugh at you for saying you will not support your beloved centrals, all because port want to move the players they spend thousands of dollars on to their club. but then again more then likely no one speaks to you in your office anyway.

[on the rails]

when you actually have a look at at SANFL player compared to a AFL player in terms of commitment wise, you will realise these AFL players are actually getting paid less the some SANFL players. What a SANFL player has 2 trainings session and a game. Being a AFL player is a full time job, you are at the club every single day and most days are full days with training weights and meetings. You also have those SANFL players that are offered full time jobs.

The above "ridiculous" statements clearly underline to the majority on here what we thought about you and your rambling rubbish piles that you post - YOU DO NOT HAVE A F#*KIN CLUE!

[whufc]

Exactly so our part time footballers are expected to compete for premierships against full time footballers.

When a kid is drafted to Victoria or in the current system they are then not used against us to win premiership points (massive and easy difference to understand)

Off field resources is a clubs responsibilty but even you would understand they have absolutely no chance to compete with the resources at the Crows feet no matter how good a business plan they have.

I have seen enough VFL games to see where teams priorities lie, do you truly believe especially in the Crows case they woke up one morning and thought geez winning the AFL premiership isnt enough we want to start winning SANFL premierships.

NO MATTER WHAT WAY YOU SPIN IT THE 2 AFL CLUBS WILL AWAYS HAVE THE SANFL PREMIERSHIP AS THEIR NUMBER 2 PRIORITY AFTER THE AFL PREMIERSHIP, ALL SANFL CLUBS SHOULD HAVE THE SANFL PREMIERSHIP AS THEIR NUMBER 1 PRIORITY

And some of those full time footballers will be coming straight from u18 football coming up against guys that have played many years of SANFL football and some ex AFL players.

How well do you think those guys that play mainly SANFL football go from training to one game plan, but then on saturday afternoon have to play a different game plan. How well do you think those players are going when their AFL clubs wants them play a certain position but then on saturday thats get changed. How fair do you think it is for the AFL clubs to pay thousands of dollars on a kid from victoria to only have a SANFL club that has no interest in his development to do what they want with him on gamed day.

Of course the AFL clubs 1st priority will be AFL premiership. But does that mean when that reserves side take to the field on saturday afternoon they ain't going to go out and win. You obviously know a heap about the VFl to know that was a different situation to what we know have in SA

I have stated many times i have absolutely zero issue and zero problem with the AFL clubs having reserves sides, that is not an issue BUT dont use the SANFL which is a LEAGUE comp for teams whose clubs number 1 priority (it will only ever be the Crows/Powers second priority at best)is to win a league premiership.

I have spoken to people very heavily involved in the Power player development and i can tell you now that is their number 1 reason by daylight for having a team in the SANFL, whether they win or lose will be a by product of that.

Especially when the only reason they have an interest in our league is because its the cheapest option.

There is not alot of difference in the situation..

Answer this................................

Do the Power/Crows want a reserves sides because the clubs in Victoria have one to which they believe it developes their players better/quicker?

[kickinit]

when you actually have a look at at SANFL player compared to a AFL player in terms of commitment wise, you will realise these AFL players are actually getting paid less the some SANFL players. What a SANFL player has 2 trainings session and a game. Being a AFL player is a full time job, you are at the club every single day and most days are full days with training weights and meetings. You also have those SANFL players that are offered full time jobs.

The above "ridiculous" statements clearly underline to the majority on here what we thought about you and your rambling rubbish piles that you post - YOU DO NOT HAVE A F#*KIN CLUE!

maybe you should go and speak to your club about the jobs offered to recruits with gerard industries. If you went and calculated the amount of hours a AFL players spends at their football club compared to a SANFl player you will find that the top SANFL players would be on a higher hourly rate then the low tier AFL players. Obviously your the one without the clue.

Have you been taking anger management classes because that is pretty tame for you, I would of thought you would of went on with a string of other names.

[rod_rooster]

The education system has failed. Sure people can slip through the cracks but kickinit needs to be provided with more support. It's a shame that in this day and age we have people like kickinit who have clearly missed out on even a basic education.

[dedja]

when you actually have a look at at SANFL player compared to a AFL player in terms of commitment wise, you will realise these AFL players are actually getting paid less the some SANFL players. What a SANFL player has 2 trainings session and a game. Being a AFL player is a full time job, you are at the club every single day and most days are full days with training weights and meetings. You also have those SANFL players that are offered full time jobs.

The above "ridiculous" statements clearly underline to the majority on here what we thought about you and your rambling rubbish piles that you post - YOU DO NOT HAVE A F#*KIN CLUE!

What would a top SANFL player be getting, kickinit?

[on the rails]

Maybe this whole "debate" needs some sort of rally? How that is planned, organised and executed needs to be determined but if the Rooster Rally back in 2003 is any example, it can be done and at short notice and it can get the numbers to force the issue to a point where the SANFL and OUR clubs have to listen to what the people who really support the comp want!

Maybe it is time to up the ante?

[whufc]

Maybe this whole "debate" needs some sort of rally? How that is planned, organised and executed needs to be determined but if the Rooster Rally back in 2003 is any example, it can be done and at short notice and it can get the numbers to force the issue to a point where the SANFL and OUR clubs have to listen to what the people who really support the comp want!

Maybe it is time to up the ante?

Totally agree!!! We already have the banner lol

[CUTTERMAN]

wasn't the VFL and WAFL teams already established teams taken over by the AFL teams? I can understand if the crows took over sturt how that could have a impact for sturt fans. But if the crows come in as their own team and the power with the magpies, whats the matter for the other clubs fans. If your team is still playing for a premiership and your not going to support them, then really your nothing but a pathetic supporter. Most of you are sitting here asking why havent the power and crows come out and answered this and that question, do you actually realise that they haven't had the chance to put forward a proposal to the SANFL clubs, and because of this we will not know those answer until they have had this chance. As much as rucci thinks he knows, no one actually knows what the proposal is going to be. And this is the reason why no club at the moment can say yes or no.

One. Leave Sturt out of it.
Two. Put both of your teams up in a comp that are totally disadvantaged from the outset. Agree to that and maybe, just maybe I'll consider taking your myopic nonsense seriously. Until then I'll treat you as the ignorant fool you come across as.

[CUTTERMAN]

How do you figure,

most kids would already support an SA Based AFL club and most likely follow them in the SANFL if they were to have any interest in the SANFL.

Go to an AFL game with Melbourne based teams and see how many kids follow Essendon and Port Melbourne. How many kids that are watching Hawthorn tonight do you think will be going to watch Frankston tomorrow.

Because the AFL clubs will pay for the SANFL to market it's game to families. By promoting the game, setting up coaching clinics. Wasn't it not that long ago that the mini league was in trouble because of sponsorship? If the SANFL can't afford to pay for this how are they going to expect to promote their game?

You sir are an idiot.