AFL Reserves Discussion...

[once_were_warriors]

If this happens and they play in the SANFL league it is going to be shitfull.

They really won't care about winning the premiership and thats what is going to destroy the integrity of this comp.

Why wont they care about winning the premiership? Why does development have to come at the cost of winning games? Did not the WAFL allegiance lead to premierships for those clubs 10 years ago? Have Geelong and Collingwood not won premierships in the VFL as standalone reserves clubs?

Half the people think the teams will be shit and wont be trying to win games. The other half think the teams will be too strong and win the premiership every year. Personally, I think the truth might be somewhere in the middle.

It can be simply answered for me , what are the Crow's and Power's main objective as football clubs? If they had to chose between AFL and SANFL premierships what would they choose? The answer is easy they aint going to be 100% dedicated to an SANFL premiership and hence integrity of the comp will be lost. If they say they are 100% then they are lying.

[Cambridge Clarrie]

If this happens and they play in the SANFL league it is going to be shitfull.

They really won't care about winning the premiership and thats what is going to destroy the integrity of this comp.

Why wont they care about winning the premiership? Why does development have to come at the cost of winning games? Did not the WAFL allegiance lead to premierships for those clubs 10 years ago? Have Geelong and Collingwood not won premierships in the VFL as standalone reserves clubs?

Half the people think the teams will be shit and wont be trying to win games. The other half think the teams will be too strong and win the premiership every year. Personally, I think the truth might be somewhere in the middle.

Who is on top of both tables of the NEAFL?

[LPH]

For any sort of 'Rally' / 'Protest' to be effective, it needs to be covered by Media.
That is why I propose the Foxtel Cup Semi Final on July 16th.
Not only is it National exposure, but it 'hits' them where it hurts - admission to the game is free.

The lack of crowd noise allows protests to be heard through ground microphones.
What is important (in order to gain respect for one's argument) is NOT to do 'stupid' acts.
They will be looking for excuses to evict, remove or disperse.
No swearing, no flares but plenty of noise - whistles, chants, 'thunder sticks'(ironic I know), these will bring attention to the protesters & perhaps then the SANFL will hear our voice.

But...

A large turn out is required. Without a significant number, we will be dismissed as 'fringe' rather than 'mainstream' SANFL supporters.
Social Media, Radio, etc. needs to be saturated consistently week after week after week.
Clubs need to be written to & informed.
It needs to be across ALL Clubs & ALL SANFL supporters - combined.
I have been through a similar thing before with the "Back To The Cottage" campaign @ FFC in UK.

The decision may be made & AFL Reserves may start in 2014 but if the protests continue & people are committed, things can change.

[Ecky]

Why wont they care about winning the premiership? Why does development have to come at the cost of winning games? Did not the WAFL allegiance lead to premierships for those clubs 10 years ago? Have Geelong and Collingwood not won premierships in the VFL as standalone reserves clubs?

Half the people think the teams will be shit and wont be trying to win games. The other half think the teams will be too strong and win the premiership every year. Personally, I think the truth might be somewhere in the middle.

I agree - on average it will be somewhere in the middle but their performance will vary a lot depending on the length of the clubs' injury lists. This is just like how SANFL reserves performances vary a lot over a season for the same reason - any reserves team performances are affected by injuries more than their corresponding League team as there are twice as many players whose injuries (or lack of) affect team selections.

Which is a big part of the issue we have with all this - we don't want a club's odds to win the SANFL premiership largely determined by the injury list of a club in a different League. Putting on my bookmakers hat, the injury lists would be the first thing I would check if I was to form a market and a competition where this is the case is clearly lacking in integrity, and this is a completely separate argument to whatever pledges the Crows and Port make to "play to win" and make their players eligible for finals.

[StrayDog]

From AdNow (apologies if the link has already been posted):-

"Power's push for SANFL reserves spells the end of the Magpies"
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl ... public_rss



and from InDaily:-

"Losing Port Magpies inconceivable: Thomas"
http://indaily.com.au/sport/2013/06/21/ ... hits-back/

"Thomas said history was on the club’s side.

“In 1996, the SANFL Clubs chose not to allow Port Adelaide to leave the local competition to pursue its AFL ambition, fearing that the SANFL simply would not be the same without the Magpies. Today we are presenting the same argument."

[Cambridge Clarrie]

Would the SANFL really be that much poorer for the loss of the Magpies? I once thought yes. I'm now thinking no...

[on the rails]

It wasn't the clubs that wanted the Magpies to stay in 1996 it was the COMMISSION who over ruled the clubs hence a change in the Constitution which now allows the CLUBS to determine the make up of the comp! If there was no change back then, the Commission woud have no doubt caved into to all demands by now re this whole Reserves "shamoozle" and there would be sweet FA the clubs could do about it!

[StrayDog]

It wasn't the clubs that wanted the Magpies to stay in 1996 it was the COMMISSION who over ruled the clubs hence a change in the Constitution which now allows the CLUBS to determine the make up of the comp! If there was no change back then, the Commission woud have no doubt caved into to all demands by now re this whole Reserves "shamoozle" and there would be sweet FA the clubs could do about it!

Well, yeah. Thomas is just sprouting the trite company line of course.

Still, who are we to argue with a man who spruiks "143 years of contribution" to a 136 year old competition.

[Booney]

It wasn't the clubs that wanted the Magpies to stay in 1996 it was the COMMISSION who over ruled the clubs hence a change in the Constitution which now allows the CLUBS to determine the make up of the comp! If there was no change back then, the Commission woud have no doubt caved into to all demands by now re this whole Reserves "shamoozle" and there would be sweet FA the clubs could do about it!

Well, yeah. Thomas is just sprouting the trite company line of course.

Still, who are we to argue with a man who spruiks "143 years of contribution" to a 136 year old competition.

Yep, thats right. We are even older than the competition.

[StrayDog]

It wasn't the clubs that wanted the Magpies to stay in 1996 it was the COMMISSION who over ruled the clubs hence a change in the Constitution which now allows the CLUBS to determine the make up of the comp! If there was no change back then, the Commission woud have no doubt caved into to all demands by now re this whole Reserves "shamoozle" and there would be sweet FA the clubs could do about it!

Well, yeah. Thomas is just sprouting the trite company line of course.

Still, who are we to argue with a man who spruiks "143 years of contribution" to a 136 year old competition.

Yep, thats right. We are even older than the competition.

Well, yeah, of course you are.

[Reddeer]

As it is seems to becoming a foregone fate accompli by the AFL to stuff up the SANFL we might as well start looking at alternate activities on weekends. I for one will no longer be following a compromised local league. If you can believe media reports It is about time that Clubs get through their THICK heads that it cannot happen!!
But when it does one of the criteria should be that any Crows or Port player are ineligible to play against their former team for that particular round. I'm sure that the player would not want to play against their original team anyway.

[passionatelegsfan]

Port Adelaide are just unbelievable. They made their choice and their choice was the VFL. So get out of the SANFL and don't bitch about it. We all have choices and they made theirs.

[passionatelegsfan]

As it is seems to becoming a foregone fate accompli by the AFL to stuff up the SANFL we might as well start looking at alternate activities on weekends. I for one will no longer be following a compromised local league. If you can believe media reports It is about time that Clubs get through their THICK heads that it cannot happen!!
But when it does one of the criteria should be that any Crows or Port player are ineligible to play against their former team for that particular round. I'm sure that the player would not want to play against their original team anyway.

do the gardening,
spend time with the kids,
watch MLB or the NBA on foxtel,
take the dog for a walk
catch up with friends
play my Xbox

There are plenty of other things to do. This is a fatal error of misjudgement by the people that run football. They think there is nothing else but in reality I can live without australian football.

[Aerie]

My question to the forum - will there be any possible proposal put forward by the AFL clubs that will make people here change their minds and accept that it might not be the end of the integrity of South Australian football if Adelaide and Port have reserves sides in the SANFL? What would need to be in the proposals for people to accept the change? Or is it a blanket no, never, do not want?

Im finding it hard to fathom that so many people would simply jump off their clubs never to return if this goes through.

Id keep an open mind but would probably go from being a member (with my 2 kids) to being an interested on looker only with no membership.

While the Crows and Power reserves playing the SANFL comp is what they want now, who is to say they will want this in 2-3 years time? Esp if a AFL reserves comp comes in.

IF this happens and the SANFL bend over, they have to insist of getting a guarantee from both clubs that they will commit to the comp long term (maybe a 20 year $2m Bank Guanartee?)

If not I can see them playing for 2-3 years then abandoning the league and it will never recover.

Spot on Dutchy.

Also, what will happen if/when they want a mid-season draft?
What happens when some of the SANFL grounds aren't appropriate because of condition, facilities or size?

It will be never ending.

Stand up SANFL and our clubs. This is a disgrace.

[Ecky]

From Westies in todays newsletter -

As you would be aware, the SANFL and the League Clubs are currently in discussions around the possible inclusion of AFL ‘reserves’ teams from the Adelaide and Port Adelaide football clubs within the SANFL.

The potential transfer of the AFL Licences in the near future has been the catalyst for all parties to take this important opportunity to review our competition.

Although the negotiations are, by necessity, happening on a confidential basis, there is some information we believe it is important that you know.

The League Directors – including Paul Sperling have been working with the SANFL to arrive at four guiding principles which form the basis for all negotiations around this issue.

These guiding principles have been agreed to by all clubs and the SANFL as non-negotiable elements and can be summarised as:

1. Integrity: Any change in competition structure must maintain or enhance the integrity of the SANFL competition;

2. Relevance: Any change in competition structure must maintain or enhance the relevance of the SANFL competition as the best State League in Australia;

3. SANFL & SANFL Club Viability: Any change to the competition structure must improve the long term strength and sustainability of the SANFL and SANFL Clubs; and

4. Game Development: Any change to the competition structure must enhance the development of the game at all levels across South Australia.

As you can see from the above, the SANFL and the SANFL clubs are steadfast in our resolve that the SANFL competition must be protected, it must remain relevant, it must be viable and that game development through the SANFL competition must continue to be of the utmost importance.

This is a complex issue. There are many positives and negatives to adding additional teams to our competition, and each of these is being carefully analysed and discussed.

Once negotiations have reached their conclusion, the SA Football Commission will make a recommendation for the SANFL League Directors to consider. Nothing can happen without the authority of the League Directors.

I would like to underline that the West Adelaide Football Club in consultation with the SANFL and the other clubs will make the decision that is in the best interests of our club, our members, our league and the South Australian football community.

Kym Russell
Chief Executive Officer

Glenelg know how to copy/paste too!
http://glenelgfc.com.au/component/content/article/1-latest/522-afl-teams-in-the-sanfl

[Pseudo]

If either of the AFL clubs had cared to mention "we want to win a SANFL premiership" amongst any of their propaganda then they may have held my attention for a short stint.

I will NEVER attend a SANFL league match where Crows or Port reserves are playing.

what he said. NEVER.

[Pseudo]

Time for mass protest

How do we do it though and are people really willing to do something? We live in such an apathetic society. We need more than a couple of hundred people doing something.

What will get our message across the best?

Count me in.

You get the angry horde, I'll get the burning brands and pitchforks. We'll meet out the front of the league directors meeting next Wednesday. Eric is invited.

[LPH]

More cutting & pasting!!!

Dear Member/Supporter,

As you know, the NAFC together with the SANFL and the other SANFL Clubs are currently in discussions around the concept of the Adelaide and Port Adelaide Football Clubs fielding reserves teams within the SANFL. We have been prompted to review our competition due to the likelihood of the transfer of the AFL licences to Adelaide and Port Adelaide in the near future.

At present, the details surrounding the discussions are, by necessity, being carried out on a confidential basis. However, we believe there is some important information you should know.

The League Directors, including myself, have been working with the SANFL to arrive at four guiding principles which form the basis for all discussions and negotiations around this issue. These guiding principles have been agreed to by all Clubs and the SANFL as non-negotiable elements and can be summarized as:

1. Integrity: Any change in competition structure must maintain or enhance the integrity of the SANFL competition.

2. Relevance: Any change in competition structure must maintain or enhance the relevance of the SANFL competition as the best State league in Australia.

3. SANFL and SANFL Club Viability: Any change to the competition structure must improve the long term strength and sustainability of the SANFL and SANFL Clubs: and

4. Game Development: Any change to the competition structure must enhance the development of the game at all levels across South Australia.

As you can see from the above, the SANFL and the SANFL Clubs are steadfast in our resolve that the SANFL competition must be protected, it must remain relevant, it must be viable and that game development through the SANFL competition must continue to be of the utmost importance.

The very notion of evaluating the positives and negatives of adding additional teams to our competition is a complex matter. Be assured the SANFL and SANFL Clubs are diligently working hard on analyzing and discussing this important issue.

The process from here will be; Upon the successful negotiation of the transfer of the AFL licences and following the receipt, assessment and discussion of detailed submissions from the Adelaide and Port Adelaide Football Clubs, the SA Football Commission will make a recommendation for the SANFL League Directors to consider. Nothing can happen without the approval of the League Directors.

I would like to underline that the NAFC, in consultation with the SANFL and the other SANFL Clubs will make the decision that is in the best interests our Club, our members, our league and the South Australian football community.

Kind Regards,
Bohdan Jaworskyj
PRESIDENT

[CUTTERMAN]

More surfing

[Pseudo]

"Thomas said history was on the club’s side.

“In 1996, the SANFL Clubs chose not to allow Port Adelaide to leave the local competition to pursue its AFL ambition, fearing that the SANFL simply would not be the same without the Magpies. Today we are presenting the same argument."

The above statement is WRONG. In 1996 the clubs wanted to kick Port out - the SANFL and Port had to convince them otherwise, emphasising that the SANFL and AFL Ports would be separate entities.

This knowledge is common to anyone who was following the SANFL in 1996, or to anyone who has the brains to do a little research of the media at the time. Producing a piece of misinformation, proclaiming it as fact, and using it to bolster his case indicates that Thomas is a bona-fide goose. He would do his club a favour by ShuttingTFU.