AFL Reserves Discussion...

[kickinit]

no sanfl club would vote to have the afl reserves play for no points. why would they play which could hamper their success.

[whufc]

no sanfl club would vote to have the afl reserves play for no points. why would they play which could hamper their success.

yep would be a waste of time for all parties.

no club will vote yes on the basis they dont play for votes, the clubs would vote no in that case.

[am Bays]

What they get paid at AFL doesn't count for what they get at SANFL level. If that was the case Port, Sturt and to a lesser extent us would all be over the cap now.

The same nominal amount the current AFL players playing in SANFL attract against their clubs salary caps would apply to the Port and crows if they are in next year.

[CUTTERMAN]

What they get paid at AFL doesn't count for what they get at SANFL level. If that was the case Port, Sturt and to a lesser extent us would all be over the cap now.

The same nominal amount the current AFL players playing in SANFL attract against their clubs salary caps would apply to the Port and crows if they are in next year.

But under the current process players are spread more or less evenly throughout all 9 clubs, disregarding those that finish bottom over a few years and those who have developed players through their system and been recruited by either AFL club, with what Port and Adelaide propose they will be at two clubs excluding all others. Hence, due to this seclusion and keeping in mind that the other 8 clubs have no access to any of these players via the AFL draft, the same process cannot and must not be implemented. Full stop.

[wild dog]

My understanding is that it's not a huge issue playing for their AFL clubs reserves side it's more the issue of playing agains their SANFL club

do you think it would be that big of issue knowing your getting a AFL contract? Do you think that kid at centrals would chuck away a AFL contract just so he didn't have to play against centrals? I think majority would chose to play against their old side and have a AFL contract over playing for their old side and not having a AFL contract.

Agree, but I do know as fact a group of players have told the power management that they would feel 'uncomfortable' about playing against their SANFL side.

Not that that will change anything either clubs does

Of course the lure of the AFL leaves the players without a fair choice: it's either give up their aspirations of playing AFL or risk playing against their old side, of course a choice remains but it's hardly fair.
I don't think anyone has suggested a player would give up AFL because of the reserves issue, a vast majority have stated that the players wouldn't like being removed from and then forced to play against their old side.

I agree, and this inability for an SANFL club to be able to counter offer a player being offered a contract by an SA AFL club (after all how could a kid expect to make such a decision no matter how much he loves his SANFL club) is an issue that cant be answered by any model which results in an AFL reserves team being placed in the SANFL league. How anyone can sit back and make a claim that the competition is in better shape when you know that any kid (or mature age player for that matter) that demonstrates talent will have a decent chance of playing against you the following year.

[Gozu]

I have to admit I'm becoming concerned:

AN SANFL competition that this week will leave the impression it is reliant on second-stringers from the Crows and Power to hold up its league series - if only for much-needed televison coverage.

When so many footballers disappear from league clubs to chase the dollar in country and "amateur" league ranks there is reason to lift the eyebrows. What has happened to the status of "league" football that young players can turn their back on wearing an SANFL jumper to fill their wallets in the bush?

And if country football is supposedly doing it so tough - and needs more money from the AFL to protect these grass roots - how can country clubs being putting $1000 a week in the wallets of city players?

BLUE TWIST
AND if at Wednesday's meeting the Sturt Football Club seizes opportunity by offering to be the Crows' home in the SANFL provided the team remains "Sturt" and wears the double-blue guernsey, will the concept win approval around the league directors' table? Or will another eastern-suburbs club beat Sturt to that concept?

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl ... 6664554800

[CENTURION]

I have to admit I'm becoming concerned:

AN SANFL competition that this week will leave the impression it is reliant on second-stringers from the Crows and Power to hold up its league series - if only for much-needed televison coverage.

When so many footballers disappear from league clubs to chase the dollar in country and "amateur" league ranks there is reason to lift the eyebrows. What has happened to the status of "league" football that young players can turn their back on wearing an SANFL jumper to fill their wallets in the bush?

And if country football is supposedly doing it so tough - and needs more money from the AFL to protect these grass roots - how can country clubs being putting $1000 a week in the wallets of city players?

BLUE TWIST
AND if at Wednesday's meeting the Sturt Football Club seizes opportunity by offering to be the Crows' home in the SANFL provided the team remains "Sturt" and wears the double-blue guernsey, will the concept win approval around the league directors' table? Or will another eastern-suburbs club beat Sturt to that concept?

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl ... 6664554800

ANOTHER Eastern suburbs club? There's only 1.

[Pseudo]

no sanfl club would vote to have the afl reserves play for no points. why would they play which could hamper their success.

Indeed, and this brings up issues to do with programming. Currently each team plays 4 teams twice and 4 teams (plus the bye) three times in a season. This leads to some inequality in the draw. With two teams not playing for points, it becomes more difficult (though not impossible) to arrange a draw so that each team plays for the same number of match points in a season. Such constraints on the fixture will likely cause a few anomalies (teams playing each other twice within a short timeframe for example) which are not acceptable.

One more reason to keep the AFL refuse out of Our League.

[Pseudo]

I have to admit I'm becoming concerned:

AN SANFL competition that this week will leave the impression it is reliant on second-stringers from the Crows and Power to hold up its league series - if only for much-needed televison coverage.

When so many footballers disappear from league clubs to chase the dollar in country and "amateur" league ranks there is reason to lift the eyebrows. What has happened to the status of "league" football that young players can turn their back on wearing an SANFL jumper to fill their wallets in the bush?

And if country football is supposedly doing it so tough - and needs more money from the AFL to protect these grass roots - how can country clubs being putting $1000 a week in the wallets of city players?

BLUE TWIST
AND if at Wednesday's meeting the Sturt Football Club seizes opportunity by offering to be the Crows' home in the SANFL provided the team remains "Sturt" and wears the double-blue guernsey, will the concept win approval around the league directors' table? Or will another eastern-suburbs club beat Sturt to that concept?

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl ... 6664554800

ANOTHER Eastern suburbs club? There's only 1.

Maybe West will relocate as part of the deal?

[Armytank]

I have to admit I'm becoming concerned:

AN SANFL competition that this week will leave the impression it is reliant on second-stringers from the Crows and Power to hold up its league series - if only for much-needed televison coverage.

When so many footballers disappear from league clubs to chase the dollar in country and "amateur" league ranks there is reason to lift the eyebrows. What has happened to the status of "league" football that young players can turn their back on wearing an SANFL jumper to fill their wallets in the bush?

And if country football is supposedly doing it so tough - and needs more money from the AFL to protect these grass roots - how can country clubs being putting $1000 a week in the wallets of city players?

BLUE TWIST
AND if at Wednesday's meeting the Sturt Football Club seizes opportunity by offering to be the Crows' home in the SANFL provided the team remains "Sturt" and wears the double-blue guernsey, will the concept win approval around the league directors' table? Or will another eastern-suburbs club beat Sturt to that concept?

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl ... 6664554800

ANOTHER Eastern suburbs club? There's only 1.

Norwood?

[Jim05]

Have followed Norwood for nearly 40 years but if we do jump in bed with the Cows I will rip my membership up and never attend another game

[saintal]

Have followed Norwood for nearly 40 years but if we do jump in bed with the Cows I will rip my membership up and never attend another game

Ditto for South (not 40 years though ). The thought makes me ill.

I found it interesting/disappointing on radio yesterday that Rucci has little issue with Sturt becoming aligned to the Crows, given he's been a vocally opposed to ressies teams in the SANFL.

[CENTURION]

If people think Sturt are an eastern suburbs club, the need to study maps.

[Jimmy_041]

If people think Sturt are an eastern suburbs club, the need to study maps.

Dates back to when Sturt had the eastern suburbs south of Kensington Road and Norwood had north.
I lived one street south which meant I had to play for Sturt.
My glittering SANFL career never started because of this geographical impediment.

[Pseudo]

My glittering SANFL career never started because of this geographical impediment.

My glittering SANFL career never started because I sucked at football.

[Failed Creation]

My glittering SANFL career never started because of this geographical impediment.

My glittering SANFL career never started because I sucked at football.

x2.

[CENTURION]

My glittering SANFL career never started because of this geographical impediment.

My glittering SANFL career never started because I sucked at football.

x2.

x3

[hereselmo1]

My glittering SANFL career never started because of this geographical impediment.

My glittering SANFL career never started because I sucked at football.

x2.

x3

x4. I would have given my left nut to have pulled on the prizon bars in a game.

[Aerie]

Getting sick of not hearing any valid information from the SANFL, SANFL clubs or the Adelaide Crows regarding the Reserves proposal. Trying to get my head around it all, so will give it a go and hope those that know more than me can answer some of the questions.

The SANFL Pre-1980
Was the number 1 ticket in town. The pinnacle of football in South Australia. Every player aimed to play for an SANFL club, a few went over the border.

The SANFL 1980-1990
Still the number 1 ticket in town. Still the pinnacle of football in South Australia, but more and more of the best players were heading east of the border and there were discussions with the SANFL and some of its clubs about joining the VFL.

The SANFL 1991-1996
A national league was inevitable. In order to prevent Port joining on its own and preventing the exodus of quality South Australian players going interstate, the Adelaide Crows joined the AFL - representing the 10 SANFL clubs. Merger of Woodville-West Torrens and a huge impact on the interest in the SANFL. However, the SANFL continued on its way, Port dominating.

The SANFL 1997-2013
A 2nd AFL licence threatens again to kill off the SANFL as it is known. Port Adelaide join as the Power and a new club is formed to be the Magpies. The SANFL steadily builds and maintains a ranking of the 2nd best league in the land behind the AFL. Through the early 2000's many of the best players outside of the AFL move to South Australia, especially VFL players disenchanted with the AFL alignment impact on the VFL. In 2008 fees are increased to make it harder to recruit interstate footballers (a move to strengthen leagues outside of the SANFL). Two new AFL clubs are formed, giving more opportunities for players to make it on an AFL list and biting away at the depth of quality players available for State Leagues. Still, the SANFL manages to remain relevant and crowds are steady. Port Magpies merge with the Power to become One Club and new Adelaide Crows coach Sanderson wants a Reserves team, as do Port.

The SANFL Now and in the Future
So it comes to today. We currently have 8 SANFL clubs, 7 of which have links to over 100 years and 1 who has become the most respected club in SA with their efforts since the turn of the century, 60 years old themselves. We have Port Adelaide Magpies who have been swallowed by its big brother. It is questionable if their number one focus is still to win an SANFL premiership.

The SANFL has come to yet another fork in the road. What happens from here? The majority, I imagine, would say it makes sense for the SANFL to become merely a feeder competition to the AFL, as all the other State Leagues have become. Accept the Adelaide Crows and Port Power as Reserves sides at league level. The minority can see what has happened in other State Leagues and what has happened to other State Leagues clubs. They know if there is not genuine competition to win a premiership, the competition is not really a competition at all.

The SANFL have some strong cards to play. They own the two AFL licenses, they part own and can get returns from the Stadium Management Authority at Adelaide Oval and they own Football Park and surrounds which can be sold/developed. They are in this position because of some smart moves in the 1970's, building Football Park, and because of the trauma suffered to the competition in the early 90's.

If the Adelaide Crows were just made to keep the SANFL as healthy as possible back then, what difference is there now? Obviously the Adelaide Crows have built amazing support in this state. They are now the number one ticket in town and have been very lucrative for the SANFL. They want to go their own way, which is fair enough, but the SANFL still owns the license.

Some questions:

What does ownership of the AFL license mean and what does it give the SANFL?
If the SANFL don't own the license, do they even care about the Crows any more? Only to get rent from the SMA at Adelaide Oval I'd imagine?
Do the 8 SANFL clubs now become the SANFL's number one priority, like in 1990 - after being 2nd to the two AFL clubs for the past 16 years?
If the SANFL refuse to sell the Crows license, what will happen?
Can the SANFL just drop the Port license, given it is costing more than it's making?
If the SANFL, as part of the SMA and after selling the licenses, make demands not assisting the Crows and Port at Adelaide Oval, what will happen? Will the AFL look at building themselves another Stadium somewhere else, leaving SMA up some creek without a paddle?
With just the land at West Lakes and funds from selling the two AFL licenses, is that enough to support the current 8 SANFL clubs and an independent competition in to the future?
Can the Port Magpies stay as an SANFL club, independent of the Power, if it means no AFL players in the SANFL?

It is a complicated path. The easy option would be to give-in to the AFL. The only way I can see the SANFL being strong in the future, as it has been for 140+ years, is if the AFL have respect for what the competition means in this state (unlikely). Or else, if the SANFL has enough money in the form of SMA and West Lakes land for ongoing funds and AFL license sales for cash injection, it can take the brave decision to go it alone with the support of the SANFL clubs. Perhaps this is unrealistic? I hope not.

[SANFLnut]

Based on the weekend teams this is roughly what a Crows or Port reserves side would look like:

CROWS
F: Johncock Orval Klaosen
HF: Mcintyre S.Shaw Joyce
C: Atkins Crouch Grigg
HB: Tambling Hartigan Ellis-Yolmen
B: Siggins L.Thompson ?
Ruck: Dowdell Riley Lyons
INT: ? ? ?
SHORT TERM INJ: B.Martin, A.Graham, J.Petrenko
DNP: B.Reilly, S.Kerridge
LONG TERM INJ: T.Walker, L.Johnston


PORT
F: M.Shaw Salter ?
HF: Young D.Stewart ?
C: Newton Moore Ah Chee
HB: Hoskin Heath Blee
B: D.Butcher Clurey Stevenson
Ruck: Renouf Pfeiffer Mitchell
INT: ? ? ?
SHORT TERM INJ: J.Redden, J.Pittard, D.Cassisi, B.Ebert,
DNP:
LONG TERM INJ: J.Trengove

Those underlined played SANFL reserves on weekend.
Would they beat your SANFL teams side from the wekend (minus AFL players)?
Where would these teams finish on the ladder if they played all year?
Why would any eastern, western, southern, northern or centrally located SANFL club want to field a league side with only 3 or 4 of their own players?

As mentioned many times in this thread, it depends partly on where the top up players come from.