AFL Reserves Discussion...

[kickinit]

I wonder if the "One Club" arrangement over the last couple of years will form part of the SANFL's discussions with the clubs? Seems that the Magpies-Power relationship has advanced beyond the boundaries of what was agreed by the clubs. This has been largely unaddressed/unpunished to this point. Port are now going to go to the other eight clubs and ask for a big favour and in doing so make a number of commitments about how they will conduct their team. Hysterical references to 1990 etc. are not relevant IMHO, however the last couple of years certainly are. Hope this is raised and openly debated.

what should be raised and debated is how the SANFL clubs where stupid enough to allow it to happen. Hopefully this time those same people are smart enough to have any stipulations put in writing instead of just words.

Well the PAFc aren't to blame with their bullshit, lies and selfish attitude?

simple business nothing is final until it's in a contract. Should be asking yourself why did your club let something so simple and in every day business slip through so easily. But then again wouldn't expect NAFC to be that smart, after all they did let the richest man in Adelaide walk away from the club.

[dedja]

North let Con Makris go??? ... Jeez, I missed that one.

Or do you mean some cat funt that helped the club out but was pissed off by the club when they decided they had enough of his circus. Seems to have been a very smart decision when you consider the state of Adelaide United of late.

Fascinating but all irrelevant to this thread really ...

[on the rails]

What he said!

[Ian]

Or do you mean some cat funt that helped the club out but was pissed off by the club when they decided they had enough of his circus. Seems to have been a very smart decision when you consider the state of Adelaide United of late.

Spot on, now let's get this thread back on topic

[Booney]

With the bulk of folks on here seeming to think the two clubs will field their reserves in the SANFL reserves competition and most agreeing with Rucci and others who have aired the idea as, perhaps, a reasonable outcome, I ask this.

If the model Rucci proposed is the Magpies drop out of the league competition making it 8 teams in the 1's, 10 teams in the 2's.

How can that work?

Lets say :

North V Nwd
Glen V South
West V Sturt
Eagles V Central

Do the 8 reserves teams not play before the league then? Will the reserves have a completely sperate draw? ( ie as noted here, North and Norwoods reserves dont play each other in this round? )

Surely the SANFL reserves teams need to play prior to the league with support staff, ground management, catering etc all being at the one ground.

If the Magpies remain in the league then the draw remains "as is" with the AFC reserves playing ( in the above round ) the PAFC reserves as this would have been their bye. So on and so forth....which ever team has the bye can use it to give a league player needing the run some extra work, an U18 some time against the big boys, or simply play the reserves head to head against the AFC 2's.

Why cant it work with the Magpies fielding no AFL players at league level, only playing them in the reserves?

Just thinking out loud folks.

( Geez, watch this get picked apart - Hi there OTR! *waves* )

[on the rails]

No Booney - good discussion point. If what Rucci proposes is the model adopted then the Reserves will have a different draw for sure. That is not such a big hurdle at the end of the day though given it is the model that best protects the integrity of the League Comp.

[Booney]

I dont see how they (the reserves) can have a seperate draw.

One idea that came to mind was a triple header.

ie - North v Norwood in the league

North v PAFC in reserves
Norwood v AFC in the reserves. All playes at Prospect, North being the home team.

That way each week there would be a triple-header at one of the SANFL grounds. Not my preferred option, of course, as this would almost certainly spell the end of the Magpies at league level.

[FlyingHigh]

Think it was mentioned earlier on here that perhaps they could look at playing the u/18's before the league games. Would still like to see reserves played before league as much as possible, but it won't be perfect.

So in the example given, if in the reserves Port are drawn to play North, and the Crows v West, Norwood will play Sturt reserves (perhaps at a different venue to the league like the u/18's most of the time now is anyway) with the u/18's fixture remaining the same as the league. Port v North would be the AFL curtain-raiser, and perhaps the other two reserves games could be played at the same ground.

Now, this is obviously an easy 1-week example. I'm not sure how the whole reserves program would work out over the year, but given there isn't a full third round in the league now anyway, I'm sure there'd be a way to manage it at reserves level.

[FlyingHigh]

I dont see how they (the reserves) can have a seperate draw.

One idea that came to mind was a triple header.

ie - North v Norwood in the league

North v PAFC in reserves
Norwood v AFC in the reserves. All playes at Prospect, North being the home team.

That way each week there would be a triple-header at one of the SANFL grounds. Not my preferred option, of course, as this would almost certainly spell the end of the Magpies at league level.

Don't mind this idea Booney. Reckon it is a bit better than what I came up with.

[Ecky]

Surely the SANFL reserves teams need to play prior to the league with support staff, ground management, catering etc all being at the one ground.

I think the best solution to this issue would be to play the U18s before the League (assuming Port also lose their U18s team)

Why cant it work with the Magpies fielding no AFL players at league level, only playing them in the reserves?

This would make it hard for the Port League team having many less reserves players to choose from as backup.

Say Port Magpies have a promising ruckman who has just become too old to play U18s but isn't quite good enough to be drafted, and not good enough to play SANFL League yet. Now, the Port Reserves team is likely to include some AFL-listed ruckmen, as they take longer to develop (have a look at any AFL list). So the former U18 ruckman is unlikely to get a game for the Magpies reserves and is likely to go elsewhere. So what happens then if the Port Magpies two options to ruck in their League team both get injured? They would have to call up a player straight from the amateurs or somewhere else.

Or say a League ruckman for Port Magpies is out of form and is dropped - how much time in the ruck will they get in the Reserves if there are already 3 AFL-listed ruckmen in that team?

[Jim05]

I think one suggested idea was to play the 8 team u18 comp before the league which I dont mind.
The Reserves would be a 10 team comp played at differant times/venues

[Pseudo]

The simple fix is to give the league and reserves the same program, with the difference that when a club is drawn to play Crows/Port in reserves then the league team has a bye.

Obvious downside to this is that there would only be 3 games on most weekends with 2 league sides sitting out. I suppose this might be fixed with Booney's suggestion; a triple header featuring the two AFL reserves games plus a league fixture between the two otherwise unoccupied SANFL teams.

[on the rails]

Well Booney - my "mail" tells me that if by some chance the AFL Reserves sides play in our league comp then the Magpies or that "structure" (Magpies League, Reserves, U18's and U16's plus the other specialist squads) as it is at present is dead in any case. This is because the Crows do not have that stucture and nor do any other AFL Club so there will be no advantage to allowing Port to have that not to mention it will save the PAFC and whoever is bailing them out that week a bucket of money.

The Power Reserves Team will be their surplus AFL listed players and whatever "top up" players they require under whatever model is agreed and the same for the Crows. I don't think anyone will care if they play in B&W to appease the old Magpie faithful but logic (and even surely you can see that) dictates the Magpies are dead. League Zones will be redistributed amongst the surviving 8 SANFL clubs and the U18's and U16's will be 8 team comps. The top half dozen to 10 current Magpies players would surely look to move elsewhere or may may be faced to move in any case as it appears the Salary Cap considerations that would be imposed woud not make it legally possible for the PAFC to hang onto the likes of Gray, Meiklejohn, Summerton etc.

[Jim05]

Well Booney - my "mail" tells me that if by some chance the AFL Reserves sides play in our league comp then the Magpies or that "structure" (Magpies League, Reserves, U18's and U16's plus the other specialist squads) as it is at present is dead in any case. This is because the Crows do not have that stucture and nor do any other AFL Club so there will be no advantage to allowing Port to have that not to mention it will save the PAFC and whoever is bailing them out that week a bucket of money.

The Power Reserves Team will be their surplus AFL listed players and whatever "top up" players they require under whatever model is agreed and the same for the Crows. I don't think anyone will care if they play in B&W to appease the old Magpie faithful but logic (and even surely you can see that) dictates the Magpies are dead. League Zones will be redistributed amongst the surviving 8 SANFL clubs and the U18's and U16's will be 8 team comps. The top half dozen to 10 current Magpies players would surely look to move elsewhere or may may be faced to move in any case as it appears the Salary Cap considerations that would be imposed woud not make it legally possible for the PAFC to hang onto the likes of Gray, Meiklejohn, Summerton etc.

This would be the only workable scenario for the AFL clubs to field sides in the SANFL league comp

[Booney]

Call it blind faith, whatever, but I can see a Magpies sans AFL listed players at league level, reserves with AFL listed players ( at most 10-14 ) and U18's.

That would leave purely 10-14 spots in the reserves for AFL listed players.

They would train with the PAFC AFL during the week, as full time footballers, the remainder do the 2-3 sessions with the Magpies.

No doubt the league side would struggle, but its better than the alternative....

For me, from an SANFL point of view (and as concerning although not touched on as much during this Port bashing ) is where will Adelaide source, well, up to 15 players from?

[RB]

Would the league side really struggle, Booney? Surely the only difference would be that it would lack having a full 2nd team playing reserves footy every week.

[Booney]

Would the league side really struggle, Booney? Surely the only difference would be that it would lack having a full 2nd team playing reserves footy every week.

Agreed. 21 in the league, 10 or so playing reserves and then 18's.

All I could see us losing is 10-12 fringe league players. Our 18s would get moved through the ranks quickly.

[on the rails]

Call it blind faith, whatever, but I can see a Magpies sans AFL listed players at league level, reserves with AFL listed players ( at most 10-14 ) and U18's.

That would leave purely 10-14 spots in the reserves for AFL listed players.

They would train with the PAFC AFL during the week, as full time footballers, the remainder do the 2-3 sessions with the Magpies.

No doubt the league side would struggle, but its better than the alternative....

For me, from an SANFL point of view (and as concerning although not touched on as much during this Port bashing ) is where will Adelaide source, well, up to 15 players from?

Won't be allowed to happen simple as that. Sad as it is, that is the price of AFL progression for your club.

[FlyingHigh]

Call it blind faith, whatever, but I can see a Magpies sans AFL listed players at league level, reserves with AFL listed players ( at most 10-14 ) and U18's.

That would leave purely 10-14 spots in the reserves for AFL listed players.

They would train with the PAFC AFL during the week, as full time footballers, the remainder do the 2-3 sessions with the Magpies.

No doubt the league side would struggle, but its better than the alternative....

For me, from an SANFL point of view (and as concerning although not touched on as much during this Port bashing ) is where will Adelaide source, well, up to 15 players from?

Still reckon a fair compromise would be the Crows and Port having access to pick up players their first year out of u/18s, only for that year. Would take about 25 players out this way, so about 3 per club. Those who miss the draft get a bit of a lifeline, AFL clubs get a close look at players they considered, but overlooked.
Some finer details need to be sorted such as players' wages and FT or PT commitment v study/work/apprenticeship.

[PhilH]

Booney .. to me your model makes the most sense,


Magpies still exist to win SANFL league premiership

No AFL players at SANFL league level

Cheapest cost structure for Power whilst retaining SANFL presence.

Having Magpies & Power "share" the reserves team would help the ONE CLUB branding.


Still not perfect, no option is
There is a logjam of AFL & SANFL surplus players in the reserves team
Maybe allowing a few extra U19's to play in U18's could assist a bit
There would still be a pathway for Ports zone players to play SANFL league.
even it it gets narrow between U18 and league

It would avoid killing of Magpies as a team existing win a league premiership.

However financially can PAFC even sustain this streamlined system into the future?