Climate change...

[The Sleeping Giant]

So the carbon tax won't save anyone. Why are we paying for it?

Seen the state of China in the last month?

[CENTURION]

carbon credits in Europe are now $5 per tonne, we want $23 a tonne & are thinking about putting that amount up! How??

[Punk Rooster]

Apparently, $250 BILLION in Carbon Tax money has disappeared within Europe.
By that, it has been not only swallowed in beauracracy, but there are questions over where the money has landed.

For those who are still asleep, this is a scam- it's about a transfer of wealth, not saving the planet.

The hype and emotion around the Carbon Tax is enough for most to be sold on the idea that we need it- I'm surprised we don't have Green Lefties running around in gangs, holding people downm and demanding to know if they've paid their carbon tax!

Australia seems to be naively signing up to schemes, that offer no real benefit to us, under the guise of being for the betterment of humanity.

[Q.]

Apparently, $250 BILLION in Carbon Tax money has disappeared within Europe.
By that, it has been not only swallowed in beauracracy, but there are questions over where the money has landed.

I can't find any source for this?

[CENTURION]

Apparently, $250 BILLION in Carbon Tax money has disappeared within Europe.
By that, it has been not only swallowed in beauracracy, but there are questions over where the money has landed.

I can't find any source for this?

I heard the same thing on the radio the other day.

[scoob]

Study finds more frequent heatwaves 'will kill hundreds' in Adelaide

AN extra 1900 Adelaide people will die as a result of heatwaves linked to global warming by 2050, experts say.

The estimate, done by the Centre for Risk and Community Safety at RMIT University, is based on modelling it presented to a Senate inquiry into preparations for more frequent and devastating natural disasters linked to climate change.

The Victorian university submitted a figure of more than 6200 extra heatwave deaths for Melbourne and said an additional 1926 deaths would occur in Adelaide, over and above the predicted number of deaths if no climate change took place.

This Adelaide estimate is conservative because the city "is predicted to face more severe extreme heat increases than Melbourne," RMIT said.

Not only will more lives will be lost and flora, fauna and agriculture destroyed, emergency services resources will also be strained, the submission said.

Increased bushfire damage to south-eastern Australian ecosystems is estimated to cost an extra $1.5 billion over the next 37 years.

RMIT recommended the committee "consider that even very conservative estimates of disaster costs under climate change are significant and likely warrant investment in disaster risk reduction and climate change adaptation".

The Australasian Fire and Emergency Service Authorities Council told the committee it predicted in 2009 that climate change would result in a greater frequency and higher intensity of bushfires, more storms, higher winds and increased flooding.

It said "emergency services have been involved in responding to the realisation of that prediction" ever since.

This included the Queensland floods in 2010/11, the Victorian floods of 2011, and bushfires in Tasmania and NSW this month, which "were associated with record high average maximum temperatures in Australia".

FFS - look up hysteria in the dictionary and there is a pic of this article!

[therisingblues]

So the carbon tax won't save anyone. Why are we paying for it?

Seen the state of China in the last month?

Exactly.
Do nothing, and that's the future we all face. At least by doing our part we have moral ground to insist they do theirs.
A lot of people on here have an apathetic, defeatist attitude toward this. Australia is not an inconsequential cog in the international community, we may go down in history as the country that inspired the world, our efforts are not being ignored and as more countries switch to carbon tax and the like, Australia will already have systems in place. It could have economic benefits.

[scoob]

So the carbon tax won't save anyone. Why are we paying for it?

Seen the state of China in the last month?

Exactly.
Do nothing, and that's the future we all face. At least by doing our part we have moral ground to insist they do theirs.
A lot of people on here have an apathetic, defeatist attitude toward this. Australia is not an inconsequential cog in the international community, we may go down in history as the country that inspired the world, our efforts are not being ignored and as more countries switch to carbon tax and the like, Australia will already have systems in place. It could have economic benefits.

LOL... come back down from that idealistic cloud you are on trb and enter the real world

[therisingblues]

Apparently, $250 BILLION in Carbon Tax money has disappeared within Europe.
By that, it has been not only swallowed in beauracracy, but there are questions over where the money has landed.

I can't find any source for this?

I heard the same thing on the radio the other day.

Maybe you and Punk listen to the same radio station? I can't find anything on this either.

[Q.]

Must be listening to Alan Jones

[therisingblues]

So the carbon tax won't save anyone. Why are we paying for it?

Seen the state of China in the last month?

Exactly.
Do nothing, and that's the future we all face. At least by doing our part we have moral ground to insist they do theirs.
A lot of people on here have an apathetic, defeatist attitude toward this. Australia is not an inconsequential cog in the international community, we may go down in history as the country that inspired the world, our efforts are not being ignored and as more countries switch to carbon tax and the like, Australia will already have systems in place. It could have economic benefits.

LOL... come back down from that idealistic cloud you are on trb and enter the real world

What do you mean? If we already have infrastructure in place that foreign companies have conformed to that would make further investment easier in Australia. I don't know for sure hence I said "could", you dismissing it put of hand however, I'd like to hear something to back that up.

[CENTURION]

Must be listening to Alan Jones

Leon Byner.

[The Sleeping Giant]

So the carbon tax won't save anyone. Why are we paying for it?

Seen the state of China in the last month?

Exactly.
Do nothing, and that's the future we all face. At least by doing our part we have moral ground to insist they do theirs.
A lot of people on here have an apathetic, defeatist attitude toward this. Australia is not an inconsequential cog in the international community, we may go down in history as the country that inspired the world, our efforts are not being ignored and as more countries switch to carbon tax and the like, Australia will already have systems in place. It could have economic benefits.

Still to see any rock solid proof that we in Australia are contributing to climate change like China, India, Russia etc. Yet, despite being one of the highest taxed nations on earth, we get slugged with another tax for something that we might not be doing. Those countries mentioned won't be implementing a carbon tax anytime soon, and if the liberals win the next election and scrap it, I'm 100% positive prices won't come back down.

[therisingblues]

So the carbon tax won't save anyone. Why are we paying for it?

Seen the state of China in the last month?

Exactly.
Do nothing, and that's the future we all face. At least by doing our part we have moral ground to insist they do theirs.
A lot of people on here have an apathetic, defeatist attitude toward this. Australia is not an inconsequential cog in the international community, we may go down in history as the country that inspired the world, our efforts are not being ignored and as more countries switch to carbon tax and the like, Australia will already have systems in place. It could have economic benefits.

Still to see any rock solid proof that we in Australia are contributing to climate change like China, India, Russia etc. Yet, despite being one of the highest taxed nations on earth, we get slugged with another tax for something that we might not be doing. Those countries mentioned won't be implementing a carbon tax anytime soon, and if the liberals win the next election and scrap it, I'm 100% positive prices won't come back down.

Sound points you make. But we should do all we can to make them change, and I don't think we have time to wait around for evidence that we too are contributing to the problem.
China is a worry for us living in Japan, I and many others I know had an amazing one day's illness last week. I couldn't figure it out until it was mentioned that the damned photochemical smog from China had blown over on that particular day. I had the symptoms of a severe flu developing, by bedtime the next day they'd all magically vanished.
I'll be moving back to Australia in the next few months with my family. I'm glad I was born in the safe part of the world. I wish it stays that way.

[Roxy the Rat Girl]

Apparently, $250 BILLION in Carbon Tax money has disappeared within Europe.
By that, it has been not only swallowed in beauracracy, but there are questions over where the money has landed.

I can't find any source for this?

I heard the same thing on the radio the other day.

Maybe you and Punk listen to the same radio station? I can't find anything on this either.

Nope, I can't find anything either. I guess it was just another baseless rant from a half witted shock jock with vested interests.

[Pseudo]

Apparently, $250 BILLION in Carbon Tax money has disappeared within Europe.
By that, it has been not only swallowed in beauracracy, but there are questions over where the money has landed.

I can't find any source for this?

I heard the same thing on the radio the other day.

Maybe you and Punk listen to the same radio station? I can't find anything on this either.

[smac]

Shut up, dickbrain! It's my radio show and I'll hang up on whoever I want so get stuffed!

[CENTURION]

By that, it has been not only swallowed in beauracracy, but there are questions over where the money has landed.[/quote]

I can't find any source for this?[/quote]
I heard the same thing on the radio the other day.[/quote]
Maybe you and Punk listen to the same radio station? I can't find anything on this either.[/quote]

Nope, I can't find anything either. I guess it was just another baseless rant from a half witted shock jock with vested interests.[/quote]

I told you, Leon Byner.

[purch]

China is a worry for us living in Japan, I and many others I know had an amazing one day's illness last week. I couldn't figure it out until it was mentioned that the damned photochemical smog from China had blown over on that particular day. I had the symptoms of a severe flu developing, by bedtime the next day they'd all magically vanished.
I'll be moving back to Australia in the next few months with my family. I'm glad I was born in the safe part of the world. I wish it stays that way.

And herein sits the problem.

Localised air pollution does not equal climate change. There is a false (IMO) perception in the general public of many nations that it does. Been to Santiago lately??? They have smog like you wouldn't believe every day of the year and it is human induced...plus the geography of the area means that air masses rarely move through at a significant enough rate to clear the air..so there are other factors that influence the "dirtiness" of the air other than humans too...not that it should be ignored.

Local pollution that you speak of is a problem in many places, I agree. I have personal experience of it too. I'm sure many of us have spent a day walking around London and ended up with a nose full of dark green/brown snot But to say that is the same as GLOBAL climate change is farcical.

Me = scientist who is a non-believer in HICC. Unfortunately, even scientists chase the dollar whilst pretending to be noble. I try to avoid that mindset.

Anyway, glad you had a speedy recovery

[therisingblues]

Purch, the anecdote was in response to TSG's comment on Chinese (amongst other countries') pollution problems. Basically I was expanding on his comment, acknowledging the severity. So I am not sure if you are also inferring that my illness wasn't related to Chinese smog along with your opinion on its affect (or lack of) on climate change.
If you believe that smog never moves then you'd also disagree with the Japanese schools policy of keeping students indoors on "smog days", you may also say it's coincidence that people who are otherwise healthy develop skin/respiratory problems between the months of January to May, when the Chinese smog is said to be at it's worst, my friends from mountain protected country areas have often experienced similar problems when transferred to Fukuoka city, which is flat and lies just across the water from China.
Etc..
My apologies if this wasn't part of your meaning, but the part of my post you quoted was mainly concerned with just that topic.
As for climate change, I've heard China burns as much coal as the rest of the world put together. I've also heard via a NASA site that half the pollution in the U.S originated from outside the country, but that pollution is mainly in the upper atmosphere where it contributes to global warming. If you accept the science that increased CO2s equal a warmer climate then I found it difficult to discount China's overwhelming contribution to that CO2 count because it's only "local" (as you put it).
Finally, if I was a climatologist seeking to get rich, I'd go to General Motors and promise them proof that climate change doesn't exist. By General Motors I also mean Ford, Coca Cola just about any of those mega rich companies that wish climate change would go away. The fact that none of them have been able to produce any peer reviewed evidence that man made climate change is a hoax says to me that money cannot deny the truth.
What's your field of study/research anyway?